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hxman





Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 111
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:22 am    Post subject: Politicians are like diapers......... Reply with quote

Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.

Harper:
One of the founding members of the Reform Party.
Head of the National Citizens Coalition.
Succeeded Stockwell Day as leader of the Canadian Alliance.
Reached an agreement with Progressive Conservative leader Peter MacKay for the merger of their two parties to form the Conservative Party of Canada.
He was elected as the party's first non-interim leader in March 2004.

I have been a Conservative supporter since I was able to vote. I have serious concerns about our current spending, debt, lack of accountability, stonewalling, and a basic style that is "out-of-touch" with the majority of Canadians. Harper has done a complete 360 on every issue he stood for when he was in opposition..... Hyprocrite is the correct term I would use, you can spin it anyway you wish, but at the end of the day Harper's record of lack thereof has been more than disappointing IMHO........

Not sure he the right man to lead the Conservatives and I don't see a majority with Stephen Harper as leader........... :twisted:
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 2262
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votes: 8
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Politicians are like diapers......... Reply with quote

hxman wrote:
Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.

Harper:
One of the founding members of the Reform Party.
Head of the National Citizens Coalition.
Succeeded Stockwell Day as leader of the Canadian Alliance.
Reached an agreement with Progressive Conservative leader Peter MacKay for the merger of their two parties to form the Conservative Party of Canada.
He was elected as the party's first non-interim leader in March 2004.

I have been a Conservative supporter since I was able to vote. I have serious concerns about our current spending, debt, lack of accountability, stonewalling, and a basic style that is "out-of-touch" with the majority of Canadians. Harper has done a complete 360 on every issue he stood for when he was in opposition..... Hyprocrite is the correct term I would use, you can spin it anyway you wish, but at the end of the day Harper's record of lack thereof has been more than disappointing IMHO........

Not sure he the right man to lead the Conservatives and I don't see a majority with Stephen Harper as leader........... :twisted:


MOST politicians are like diapers...they're full of you know 'what'...as for Harper - I would take him over ANY other bullshitter out there!
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 7436
Reputation: 297.4
votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CPC is 10 seats shy of a Majority? (If you assume that Simcoe Grey stays blue) Its hardly a far off scenario

Every election, and every round of by-elections seems to see the CPC gaining seats,

This chatter that Harper cannot win a majority sounds a lot like same sort of conversation prior to the 2006 election that the Conservatives would never win a seat in Quebec, and the same chatter prior to the 2008 election that the CPC could never win the majority of seats in Ontario.

You can only call wolf so many times.

Half of the ten could be made up of the new found popularity of the CPC in the Atlantic Provinces alone, if you think that the Tories have a shot to take back Edmonton—Strathcona for example then you are four seats shy.

Considering there are six seats alone in BC and Ontario that were within 2% of a CPC victory I hardly think the idea of a majority is impossible.

Even if I discount all of the above,
The Green Party polling in the low teens paints a scenario much like the Liberals benefited from in 1997, except magnified.


Last edited by cosmostein on Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total
David





Joined: 06 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post hxman. I agree wholeheartedly.

In the next federal election I am going to be voting for an independent candidate. I think all of the mainstream political parties in this country are digging the hole "deeper and deeper".
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: Politicians are like diapers......... Reply with quote

hxman wrote:
Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.

Harper:
One of the founding members of the Reform Party.
Head of the National Citizens Coalition.
Succeeded Stockwell Day as leader of the Canadian Alliance.
Reached an agreement with Progressive Conservative leader Peter MacKay for the merger of their two parties to form the Conservative Party of Canada.
He was elected as the party's first non-interim leader in March 2004.

I have been a Conservative supporter since I was able to vote. I have serious concerns about our current spending, debt, lack of accountability, stonewalling, and a basic style that is "out-of-touch" with the majority of Canadians. Harper has done a complete 360 on every issue he stood for when he was in opposition..... Hyprocrite is the correct term I would use, you can spin it anyway you wish, but at the end of the day Harper's record of lack thereof has been more than disappointing IMHO........

Not sure he the right man to lead the Conservatives and I don't see a majority with Stephen Harper as leader........... :twisted:
The only position in the entire federal government that has a term limit, that I can think of, is the GG. You can be an MP for 56 years if you can win that many elections. You are set on the bench till you are dead or 70, whichever comes first. You can remain PM, or party leader, as long as you can convonce people to vote for you.
IanM





Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 254
Reputation: 101.1
votes: 7
Location: The centre of the universe

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Politicians are like diapers......... Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
hxman wrote:
Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.

Harper:
One of the founding members of the Reform Party.
Head of the National Citizens Coalition.
Succeeded Stockwell Day as leader of the Canadian Alliance.
Reached an agreement with Progressive Conservative leader Peter MacKay for the merger of their two parties to form the Conservative Party of Canada.
He was elected as the party's first non-interim leader in March 2004.

I have been a Conservative supporter since I was able to vote. I have serious concerns about our current spending, debt, lack of accountability, stonewalling, and a basic style that is "out-of-touch" with the majority of Canadians. Harper has done a complete 360 on every issue he stood for when he was in opposition..... Hyprocrite is the correct term I would use, you can spin it anyway you wish, but at the end of the day Harper's record of lack thereof has been more than disappointing IMHO........

Not sure he the right man to lead the Conservatives and I don't see a majority with Stephen Harper as leader........... :twisted:
The only position in the entire federal government that has a term limit, that I can think of, is the GG. You can be an MP for 56 years if you can win that many elections. You are set on the bench till you are dead or 70, whichever comes first. You can remain PM, or party leader, as long as you can convonce people to vote for you.


Thankfully, no, there is no term limit for the Governor General. Like all positions within the public service, the Governor General serves at Her Majesties Pleasure, which means so long as her Prime Minister advises the Queen to maintain the appointment, then that person will remain in the position.

Term Limits are a bad thing, we already have them, they are called Elections. The same with retirement ages, they are discriminatory, and I feel that they need to be withdrawn. I'd support a Human Rights Complaint / Charter Challenge to have them removed, as they are discriminatory on a part of age.

Stephen Harper is still young, so long as he can win, then he will remain in power, and that is a good thing. Personally, I'd rather see someone else, however he is the best man for the job we have. A majority can be achieved, but the Conservative Party needs to be taken more seriously, it needs to be more forceful, it needs to fight the good fight.

There is a lot that can be done of course, quite a lot really, and I just don't see it being done. They need to be campaigning, now, as if it was an election, they need to get out there, with signs, with celebrities, have rallies, have counter protests....in short, a culture shift needs to occur, and the Conservative party needs to help ensure that the youth can see our side of it. The removal of 10%ers was a bad thing, and that needs to be changed.

The first thing that I think needs to be done, is to allow something similar to 527 Organizations, as they have in the states, that and a lifting of third party fund raising and advertising during an election, with that there is hope that other institutions can help achieve a majority.

Hopefully, there is one, and they can talk about Campaign Finance Reform, allowing for donation limits to be raised or removed, allow for Corporate advertising, removal of public financing. Once that is done, and once the economy recovers, we will be able to secure more majorities, as well as look at increasing provincial conservative governments....

In short though, winning needs to happen, and people need to push hard for a win. There isn't time for division, Harper can win, our system allows him to Win without Quebec, however more pushing needs to be done in the Maritimes (New Brunswick / PEI / Newfoundland Especially), British Columbia as well as Toronto. The other big thing is to look at trying to get some Liberals to switch sides, obviously, especially the conservative liberals, and finally to ensure that the marginals we do control, are secure.

Harper is only one man, and there's lots more people in the party, and they need to be used as well. He runs the show, and he's run a rather good show. 4 Years in Government, 4 years under the specter of an election and utter ejection to the wilderness, I think he can win a Majority and go for 12-16 more years or so.
bsenka





Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 227
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a lot of ways I agree with the OP. I'm no longer seeing anything conservative about the CPC. They quite simply ARE just another Liberal party. It's tough to stomach, but what's the other choice right now? All the real conservatives vote CHP or Libertarian and watch the Liberals take over again? All of the available options are particularly bad right now, CPC is just the lesser of the evils.
IanM





Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 254
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votes: 7
Location: The centre of the universe

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's hope.

That's what there is in the end I think. There's hope of a victory in the culture war, there's hope for a majority government, there's hope of the return of Mike Harris, Ralph Klein and John Hamm to save us all from fiscal ruin.

The other choice is to vote on the fringe, and loose everything that was gained in the last four years. Or, we all can hold our nose, and keep voting CPC, and hopefully slide further and further to the right.

I'm not happy with the prospect, but the alternative is much worse. In some ways though, we do see the divide here, between conservatives.

On this board, I've noticed there's a lot of people, with a lot of different viewpoints, and they really fall into four or five major groups.

The fiscal conservatives.
The libertarian conservatives.
The social conservatives.
The classic conservatives.
The Red conservatives.
The trolls.

Either way, I'm simplifying the groups down, but its more for ease here. The trolls, well, we see those anywhere, and they don't count. However the groups I listed are a reflection of the groups that are in the CPC and the conservative movement in general.

None of these are bad, none of these are any less important than eachother, however, thinking about it all. They do have some similarities, however some perspectives do differ.

Things like abortion, religion to a lesser extent 'same sex marriage' . Those are probably the largest, however they are more placed aside.

Things such as social programmes, free markets, provincial/ federal relations. They also cause division, quite a lot more I think, judging by the responses here.

Isreal, America, Relationships with the Monarchy, Foreign affairs, immigration also cause substantial differences among groups, but not as much. Most people I think do favor those things.

Culture though, that is the big one, it is quite a vast movement, and there is massive cultural differences.

The point I'm trying to make here is that, there is two options here, either try to take a little bit from everybody and develop a party based upon some shared ideals, or split off and let everyone find their niche.

I think Harper has done a good job in trying to do that. Yes, there are things I don't like, yes, there are things I disagree with, yes, there is some things I wish the CPC would drop, quite a lot. I've argued against them time and again, I don't mind doing that, because I know that its better to debate internally, then to fight externally.

I disagree that all the real conservatives vote CHP or Libertarian, because if that was the case, then only 1% or so of eligible voters would be 'real conservative'.

I think that it has to come down to a case of pick one's battles.
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 7436
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votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IanM wrote:

On this board, I've noticed there's a lot of people, with a lot of different viewpoints, and they really fall into four or five major groups.

The fiscal conservatives.
The libertarian conservatives.
The social conservatives.
The classic conservatives.
The Red conservatives.
The trolls.



I'm a Green Conservative Thank You Very Much :lol:
IanM





Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 254
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votes: 7
Location: The centre of the universe

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
IanM wrote:

On this board, I've noticed there's a lot of people, with a lot of different viewpoints, and they really fall into four or five major groups.

The fiscal conservatives.
The libertarian conservatives.
The social conservatives.
The classic conservatives.
The Red conservatives.
The trolls.



I'm a Green Conservative Thank You Very Much :lol:


I knew I forgot someone :P . I'd probably fall into the same category as you would, I think I made some posts about the need for environmental change. However, green's one of those things, you know, it goes across the board, it makes it like three dimentional man....with that whole Z axis on things.....its far out........
cosmostein





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Posts: 7436
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votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IanM wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
IanM wrote:

On this board, I've noticed there's a lot of people, with a lot of different viewpoints, and they really fall into four or five major groups.

The fiscal conservatives.
The libertarian conservatives.
The social conservatives.
The classic conservatives.
The Red conservatives.
The trolls.



I'm a Green Conservative Thank You Very Much :lol:


I knew I forgot someone :P . I'd probably fall into the same category as you would, I think I made some posts about the need for environmental change. However, green's one of those things, you know, it goes across the board, it makes it like three dimentional man....with that whole Z axis on things.....its far out........


Z Axis, :lol:

I LOVE it !
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