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FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: A different perspective on Christine Elliot Reply with quote

From Freedom is My Nationality, William Joseph spoke to Elliot and Hudak:
William Joseph wrote:
...I asked both about privatizing the LCBO. Elliott was much more in agreement on this than Hudak. While Elliott immediately agreed with me, Hudak started talking about his private members bill that would help out wineries, conveniently located in his riding. I told him that was protectionist and private stores should be free to sell whatever they want, but he seemed lukewarm on this.

There's more at the blog, including stuff about the Green Space and the HRCs.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting, indeed. Perhaps the Red Star has misread Ms. Elliott and she's not such a red Tory after all?

-Mac
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 7479
Reputation: 299.1
votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Privatizing the LCBO is something that does not rank all that high on my overall list of things I want changed when a Conservative is in power.

Call me a socialist but I find the selection of liquors at our LCBO is much better then that of when I cross the border to the South and come across private liquor stores.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is really a non-issue. The LCBO is not so much the problem. I have a bigger problem with the OLG, and I would only hope a Ontario Conservative government would do something with it.

I think alcoholic products should be controlled and regulated by the government.
RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 6555
Reputation: 235.7
votes: 3
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the LCBO issue has been around for a while now , not sure there is much interest from the public for major changes as the typical lcbo store is very nice inside and has good service better than your typical variety store , and small agency lcbo stores have been brought into smaller underserviced area's to fill the demand there .

but then it is 2009 and i find it kind of odd ontario is like one of the last provinces that actually regulates liquor to this extent , either were behind the times or this lcbo setup is actually working .
Christian Conservative





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 86
Reputation: 50.8
votes: 2
Location: Southwestern ON

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one's a dealbreaker for me... alcohol needs to be regulated, and I oppose any further deregulation/privitization of the LCBO.

And for the record, I'm not a tee-totaller, so that's not why I oppose privitization. I don't want to see the American style "beer on every corner" concept, we already have big enough problems with alcohol without making it more readily available.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christian Conservative wrote:
This one's a dealbreaker for me... alcohol needs to be regulated, and I oppose any further deregulation/privitization of the LCBO.

And for the record, I'm not a tee-totaller, so that's not why I oppose privitization. I don't want to see the American style "beer on every corner" concept, we already have big enough problems with alcohol without making it more readily available.


This is a very good point.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This actually gets me leaning towards Christine if true.

Privatizing the LCBO is a long-time policy of the OPC, FYI.

Harris wanted to do it but he was already getting enough resistance from the unions so he backed down on this. When he retired he said not privatizing it was one of the few things he regretted.

Privatizing it was even one of John Tory's main policies.

Nothing ticks me off more than hearing or seeing LCBO advertisements. Why is the government spending money on trying to get people to drink more alcohol rather than opening hospital beds? Besides, why does the LCBO need to advertise? It's a friggin monopoly! Where else are we supposed to buy our booze?!

My personal opinion is that we need to be smarter politically on this issue. Rather than privatizing it outright we need to follow the Mulroney model of how he privatized Canada Post, Air Canada and Petro Canada.

First we have to turn it into a semi-private crown corp. Allow private investors a 25% stake in it. When the opposition opposes it we'll claim that the money raised will go towards healthcare and that they're opposed to increased healthcare spending.

Slowing increase the amount over a decade or two until the majority are private investors.

At the same time allow private businesses to purchase LCBO "franchises". Start off with in a "test market" and/or underserved remote areas. If people complain about the "dangers" just say it's a test to see if it works or not. When people realize that the world didn't end, expand it province wide.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't want to see the American style "beer on every corner" concept, we already have big enough problems with alcohol without making it more readily available.


"American style"?

What about Quebec-style? In Quebec corner stores can sell alcohol and they have among the lowest crime rates in Canada.

It's not about private VS public. It's about the maturity of a population and their atitutudes towards alcohol.

If we act like it's something that we need the state to protect us from, then people think booze makes them "dangerous" and "cool" and "adult", exactly the attitudes of people who shouldn't be drinking.

In reality "American style" means no drinking until you're 21 because the far-off impersonal federal government knows what's best for you. So don't take responsibility for yourself or your actions because the government is here to protect you from yourself.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I amazed at the resistance in this thread, to the idea that private buisinesses can market and sell products more efficiently that the government. Privatizing liquor sales has been an enormous success in Alberta, and has not led to a pandemic of alcoholism, as many people in this thread seem to fear. In fact, the lowest rate of alcoholism in the country is in Quebec, and Saskatchewan and Manitoba (both government controlled) exceed Alberta's rate - In short, there is no correlation between privatization and increased substance abuse.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
I amazed at the resistance in this thread, to the idea that private buisinesses can market and sell products more efficiently that the government. Privatizing liquor sales has been an enormous success in Alberta, and has not led to a pandemic of alcoholism, as many people in this thread seem to fear. In fact, the lowest rate of alcoholism in the country is in Quebec, and Saskatchewan and Manitoba (both government controlled) exceed Alberta's rate - In short, there is no correlation between privatization and increased substance abuse.

It shouldn't amaze you, FF_Canuck as we know there are many conservatives who do not fear, nay, desire authoritarian governmental intervention so long as such intervention matches their ideology.

In my view, the government has no business selling alcohol. Does the government sell cigarettes? No. Does the government sell other products which are laden with what are euphemistically called "sin taxes"? No. So why should they be involved in selling alcohol? Simply because the liquor stores are unionized and the unions must be protected.

-Mac
chrisreid





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 182
Reputation: 64.1
votes: 5
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well since the LCBO provides such wonderful service, then there is no reason for it to be owned by the government and given a near exclusive monopoly.
Being a few months in Australia now, and they have free enterprise in the delivery of liquor/wines/beers. You can get wine at the grocery store while you are shopping for groceries (which is more "CIVILIZED" to me than have to run across town to a government depot - which is what LCBOs are in any case).

What is also civilized is, that it's not just ONLY variety stores that sell alcohol, but there are large stores, like Dan Murphy's that have a larger selection than any LCBO, with a greater range of prices. The point is the people against eliminating the government run liquor monooply in Ontario, do it because they think their personal choice should be the same as for everyone else, and they can't imagine that anyone should want anything more or less than them. Kind of like, why would anyone else need any kind of car other than a black Model-T if it satisfies one person's needs, then therefore it should satisfy everyone elses.

http://www.danmurphys.com.au/
http://www.liquorland.com.au/
http://www.liquorworld.com.au/

Check out those links, my god, free enterprise is so scandalous! :-)

RCO wrote:
the LCBO issue has been around for a while now , not sure there is much interest from the public for major changes as the typical lcbo store is very nice inside and has good service better than your typical variety store , and small agency lcbo stores have been brought into smaller underserviced area's to fill the demand there .

but then it is 2009 and i find it kind of odd ontario is like one of the last provinces that actually regulates liquor to this extent , either were behind the times or this lcbo setup is actually working .
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
Quote:
I don't want to see the American style "beer on every corner" concept, we already have big enough problems with alcohol without making it more readily available.


"American style"?

What about Quebec-style? In Quebec corner stores can sell alcohol and they have among the lowest crime rates in Canada.

It's not about private VS public. It's about the maturity of a population and their atitutudes towards alcohol.

If we act like it's something that we need the state to protect us from, then people think booze makes them "dangerous" and "cool" and "adult", exactly the attitudes of people who shouldn't be drinking.

In reality "American style" means no drinking until you're 21 because the far-off impersonal federal government knows what's best for you. So don't take responsibility for yourself or your actions because the government is here to protect you from yourself.


Well Ontario is not Quebec. We have a city called Toronto with a lot of problems with substance abuses. We have seen the abuses of corner stores with owners with the OLG (which I am against the government getting involved in), just imagine what they would do with alcohol. A lot of store owners donít even check ID when selling cigarettes.

If we were to strike a balance where alcohol would only be sold at stores with controls in place, then I would be fine with that. However, history has shown that at corner stores in the GTA that does not work very well.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisreid wrote:
Check out those links, my god, free enterprise is so scandalous! :-)

Glad you're still checking in, Chris. I thought when you moved to the Land Down Under, we might lose your wit and wisdom. Careful of the spiders and snakes!!

-Mac
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:
Well Ontario is not Quebec. We have a city called Toronto with a lot of problems with substance abuses. We have seen the abuses of corner stores with owners with the OLG (which I am against the government getting involved in), just imagine what they would do with alcohol. A lot of store owners donít even check ID when selling cigarettes.

If we were to strike a balance where alcohol would only be sold at stores with controls in place, then I would be fine with that. However, history has shown that at corner stores in the GTA that does not work very well.

So the rest of the province is to be held hostage by the leftards of Toronto. Do you ever wonder why people outside of the GTA get sick and tired of the sucking centre of the universe? It must be absolute hell for conservatives to live there!! My sympathies, SFrank85.

-Mac
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A different perspective on Christine Elliot

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