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RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Manitoba pulls out of Carbon Tax plan Reply with quote

( another province has decided to pull out of the carbon tax , was always a surprise the pc government in Manitoba wanted one to begin with )


Manitoba pulls out of planned carbon tax



The Canadian Press
Published Wednesday, October 3, 2018 3:17PM EDT



WINNIPEG - The Manitoba government says it is pulling out of its plan to charge a carbon tax and is joining some other provinces opposed to the federal government's demands.

Premier Brian Pallister says Ottawa has not respected the province's right to come up with its own plan with a lower rate.

The federal government has demanded provinces charge a tax on carbon emissions starting at $10 per tonne by the end of this year and rising to $50 per tonne by 2022.


Manitoba planned to charge a flat $25 per tonne that would not rise, starting Dec. 1, and obtained a legal opinion that it had the constitutional right to do so.

Pallister says Ottawa has refused in the ensuing months to back down from a threat to impose its own plan on the province.

As a result, he says Manitoba is backing away from any carbon tax and will focus instead on other efforts to curb emissions.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/manitoba-pulls-out-of-planned-carbon-tax-1.4120046
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'We say no': Manitoba defies Ottawa by killing its carbon tax plan



Province getting too little credit for green economy, premier says




Ian Froese · CBC News · Posted: Oct 03, 2018 2:22 PM CT | Last Updated: 3 minutes ago



Manitoba Premier Brian Pallister says Ottawa is not giving his province enough credit for its green economy and use of hydroelectricity. (Justin Tang/The Canadian Press)


455 comments


The Manitoba government is cancelling its carbon tax.

Premier Brian Pallister announced in the provincial legislature Wednesday that he will defy the federal government's carbon-pricing strategy and drop the carbon tax from his climate strategy, focusing instead on other efforts to curb emissions.


His government was proposing a flat carbon price of $25 per tonne, while the federal government plan's would start at $10 per tonne in 2018 and rise by $10 per year until it hit $50 per tonne by 2022.


Pallister said it's become clear the federal government would not respect Manitoba's plan.

Ottawa's escalating tax would threaten jobs and the province's economy, Pallister claimed.

He said Manitoba is not being given enough recognition from Ottawa for its green economy and use of hydroelectricity.

•Manitoba's price on carbon will be up for discussion down the road: Trudeau

"We are given absolutely no credit for this," Pallister said.

"Therefore, our course of action is clear. The federal government says Manitobans are not doing enough to protect the environment. We say no."

Pallister did not immediately say if there would be other changes to his climate plan.

'Puzzling': Trudeau

The move, which follows similar objections from Ontario and Saskatchewan, arrived in Parliament with a pointed question for the prime minister.

"Now that another province has said no carbon tax for their province, will this prime minister recognize that a carbon tax penalizes Canadians?" said Conservative MP Candice Bergen.

"It penalizes farmers, it penalizes industry, it penalizes Canadians, it does nothing to help the environment. Will he do the right thing that Brian Pallister did today and say no to the carbon tax?"

Trudeau said it's "puzzling… why Conservatives insist on making pollution free."

"We would prefer to work with provinces right across the country, but if they are unwilling to make sure that polluters pay, we will bring in federal measures to both collect a price on pollution and return that money to hardworking citizens right across the country."


Pallister's government had been reluctant to sign on to the federal government's plan.

Legal advice sought by the province said the federal government has the jurisdictional authority to impose a carbon tax, but also suggested that if a province had an alternative plan that accomplished the same policy goal, it may be able to prevent Ottawa from interfering.

Manitoba dropped the tax from its green plan because Ottawa had refused to back down after a year of talks, Pallister said.

Todd MacKay, the prairie director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, said in a statement the group was "ecstatic" with the move, which it did not see coming.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-carbon-tax-green-plan-1.4849128
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( the federal government still plans to impose a carbon tax on any province that doesn't have one after Jan 1 . even though a growing number have said there not interested in the idea .

it shows just how out of touch this liberal government has become . they don't care if people don't vote for them or there provincial cousins . there going to impose the law of the land from downtown Ottawa )



Feds on track to impose carbon price on growing number of provinces on Jan. 1

By Mia Rabson. Published on Oct 5, 2018 4:02am


OTTAWA — Federal officials say there’ll be no problem adding Manitoba to the growing list of provinces where Ottawa will have to apply a carbon tax — but they’re still not ready to say exactly how the revenues raised by the tax will be given back to people in those provinces.

“We’re still completely on track to implement in regions where it is required by Jan. 1,” said an official in Environment Minister Catherine McKenna’s office.

Manitoba did a sudden about-face Wednesday on its plan to start charging a $25 per tonne carbon tax this fall. Premier Brian Pallister said he was backing off because he could not get Ottawa to promise it wouldn’t force Manitoba to raise that price to $30 in 2020, $40 in 2021 and then to $50 in 2022.

McKenna said she’s “perplexed” by Pallister’s move, since Ottawa is still in the middle of reviewing Manitoba’s plan to determine whether it meets the federal standard.

Under the Greenhouse Gas Pollution Pricing Act, provinces that don’t have at least a $20-per-tonne price on carbon emissions by Jan. 1 will have such a price applied by Ottawa. All revenues from it are to be returned to people of the province where the money is collected, but the details about how that rebate system will work have yet to be announced.

To avoid having the federal price imposed on them, all provinces had to submit their carbon pricing plans by Sept. 1 and McKenna told The Canadian Press recently that reviews of all those plans were ongoing. Speaking a few days before Manitoba’s pull-back, she said only Saskatchewan and Ontario were clearly lacking.

Saskatchewan’s government has rejected a carbon price from the start and is planning to sue Ottawa over it. Ontario’s new Conservative government under Doug Ford cancelled that province’s cap and trade system almost before the ink on its swearing-in papers was dry.

Manitoba is now on that list, and it seems likely both New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island will be found lacking because their plans are to largely use existing programs rather than introduce new taxes.

Newfoundland hasn’t made public its plan. Nova Scotia has a cap-and-trade regime on its big industrial emitters and it’s not clear yet if that will meet Ottawa’s requirement for a broad-based carbon price.

Alberta will be fine for Jan. 1 but Premier Rachel Notley is no longer committing to raising her province’s carbon price in line with federal requirements because she is irritated that the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion is in limbo. Regardless, if Notley loses the Alberta election next year to United Conservative Party under Jason Kenney, he intends to kill the carbon tax in that province entirely.

A federal official speaking on background said the government needs to have all the reviews done and the plans in place by early December, if a Jan. 1 implementation date is to be met. She said an announcement on how carbon price rebates will work is likely come at the same time Ottawa announces which provinces have not met the federal standard.

McKenna reiterated that she would prefer provinces to have their own plans, but “if they don’t there will be a price on pollution across the country.”

When Ottawa first said it intended to force a national price on pollution, in the fall of 2016, it was at a time when the majority of governments across Canada were Liberal or carbon-tax friendly. While several of the Atlantic provinces were lukewarm at best to the idea of a carbon price, they still signed onto the Pan Canadian Framework on Clean Growth and Climate Change.

One of McKenna’s favourite talking points was to say “80 per cent of Canadians live in a province with a price on pollution.”

She can no longer say that.

With several provinces backing away from carbon pricing the federal Conservatives are demanding the Liberals rethink their strategy.

“The Liberal carbon tax plan is clearly in shambles,” Alberta MP Mike Lake said during question period Thursday.



The Canadian Press

https://ipolitics.ca/2018/10/05/feds-on-track-to-impose-carbon-price-on-growing-number-of-provinces-on-jan-1/
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( trudeau now claims Canadians want the federal government to impose a carbon tax and that they have a mandate from 2015 to do so. even though he barely campaigned on the issue and few liberal candidates mentioned it )



David Akin 🇨🇦‏Verified account @davidakin · 23m23 minutes ago

PMJT says that if provinces fail to lead on fighting climate change via a carbon tax, the feds will do it. "Canadians are counting on the federal government to do just that.” #cdnpoli




David Akin 🇨🇦‏Verified account @davidakin · 25m25 minutes ago



As @FordNation campaigns today in the West against a national carbon tax, @JustinTrudeau, in Windsor reminds Ford, he was asked by voters in 2015 to implement such a plan. "We will be moving forward to make polluters pay.” #cdnpoli
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why isn't someone going to the Supreme Court of Canada over this one?

Maybe someone can help me out. I thought we had a federation of provinces, and that certain areas of government were divided between the two levels of government, including the way tax revenues would be divided.

And it gets all mixed up because of the income tax ... which left the Feds with virtually all the taxing power, and the provinces had virtually all the services ... so, you know ... they worked it out by ignoring all that stuff. Discreetly. It made Quebec uneasy because they began to feel their ability to use their local political organizations in their own way.

Quebec was right. But the Fed taxing power made it possible to fund things people wanted. The Feds insisted the money be spent on what it was intended for. National standards. Grants to keep medical and educational organizations going.

This is different. The Liberals are going to use taxation to penalize SOME provinces and not others for NOT accepting national standards on something that the is an exclusive provincial responsibility. And what makes them 'national standards?' Is there a 'standard' for what can be a 'national standard'?

Why isn't that ultra vires?
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meeting with Trudeau derailed Manitoba carbon tax plan: premier

By: Larry Kusch and Jessica Botelho-Urbanski | Posted: 10/4/2018 6:07 PM | Comments: 88


According to Premier Brian Pallister, it became apparent to him last month, after a face-to-face meeting with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in Winnipeg, that Manitoba would have to abandon its carbon tax plan.

The province fought for close to a year to convince the federal government to accept its flat-tax proposal, arguing it would be more effective — and fairer to a province that had made massive investments in clean hydroelectric power, Pallister said.

There were face-to-face discussions, letters and phone calls — all designed to convince Ottawa to see "the wisdom of respecting our plan," he said.

But by Sept. 11, when Trudeau and Pallister met at the premier's office in the legislative building, it was clear Ottawa would not budge on its insistence the carbon tax would eventually rise to $50 a tonne.


"The sitdown with the prime minister a couple of weeks ago was pretty much clear," Pallister said Thursday, a day after his surprise announcement the province was withdrawing its plan to impose a $25-a-tonne carbon tax, effective Dec. 1. "Either we're standing up now to the federal threat or we're standing up in a year. So which one's better? I would say now."

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Premier Brian Pallister Manitoba Legislative Building in September.

TREVOR HAGAN / THE CANADIAN PRESS FILES

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Premier Brian Pallister Manitoba Legislative Building in September.

Before Wednesday, the government had given no signal it would abandon its carbon tax plan. The decision came as a surprise to business leaders and opposition politicians alike.

As late as last month, Sustainable Development Minister Rochelle Squires wrote to Progressive Conservative party members explaining why Manitoba had created its own carbon pricing plan and why it was superior to the tax regime Ottawa was ready to impose on provinces that failed to come up with their own scheme.

Under questioning from reporters, Pallister said he has no had no recent discussions on carbon levies with Ontario Premier Doug Ford nor Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe, who are both challenging Ottawa's carbon tax policy.


The premier said he has not yet been told how monies raised from a federally imposed carbon price next year would be funnelled back to Manitoba. (Ottawa has promised to remit taxes collected back to the provinces.)

Would the feds make a lump-sum payment to the province or issue cheques to individuals? "This is the unanswered question and the one that I have raised with the prime minister already," the premier said.

Given their differences at their face-to-face meeting in Winnipeg, it no doubt stuck in the premier's craw Trudeau had praised his government's climate change policies while in Winnipeg, holding Pallister up as an example for conservative counterparts in other provinces.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau looks on while Manitoba Premier Brian Pallister talks during a press conference in Winnipeg in September.

MIKE DEAL / WINNIPEG FREE PRESS

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau looks on while Manitoba Premier Brian Pallister talks during a press conference in Winnipeg in September.

Referring to the PM's comments Thursday, the premier said: "I don't think anybody likes to be used as a prop, and I am certainly not inclined that way."

NDP Leader Wab Kinew and Liberal Leader Dougald Lamont decried the Pallister government’s new stance on the carbon tax.

"This was a remarkable about-face, this was a total flip-flop by the premier. I’m not sure if he was scared of Justin Trudeau. I’m not sure if he was scared of his own base. I’m not sure if he was scared of being left behind by Doug Ford," Kinew mused. "He changed his mind, and it appears he didn’t reach out to any stakeholders based on who I’ve spoken to in the last day, and he caught his own caucus off-guard."

Lamont urged Pallister to take responsibility for his decision to axe the proposed provincial carbon tax system, which never aligned with federal targets that aimed to rise to $50 per tonne by 2022.



TIMELINE


Oct. 27, 2017 – Province publishes climate and green plan

Premier Brian Pallister and Sustainable Development Minister Rochelle Squires unveil Manitoba’s Climate and Green Plan at a news event at Oak Hammock Marsh. It includes a carbon tax that would start -- and stay -- at $25 per tonne.

"We have a better plan than the plan that they're advocating," Pallister said of the federal government. "I don't think they'll win in court. But I would prefer that in the court of public opinion that we make clear to Ottawa that our better plan is the one supported by Manitobans."
click to read more


"One of the things (Pallister) does is blame everything on everyone else. I mean, look this was absolutely his choice and his decision to make. It’s not news that the federal government said this is how we’re going to replace the carbon tax," he said.

Manitoba Chambers of Commerce president Chuck Davidson said his organization was not opposed, in principle, to a carbon tax, but it worried about its effect on business competitiveness. "There was a concern that we were putting ourselves on a bit of an island," he said of the Manitoba flat-tax proposal.

While businesses may be now breathing a sigh of relief they won't have to begin paying the tax Dec. 1, Davidson said, "The question is: where to we go from here?"

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/meeting-with-trudeau-derailed-manitoba-carbon-tax-plan-premier-495218491.html
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canadians voted for a carbon tax, Trudeau says as provincial blowback grows


Mia Rabson, The Canadian Press
Published Friday, October 5, 2018 11:58AM EDT
Last Updated Friday, October 5, 2018 3:16PM EDT


OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canadians gave his government a mandate in the last election to implement a national carbon price and that is exactly what it is going to do.

"Pollution should not be free anywhere across this country," Trudeau said Friday at an event in Windsor, Ont.

His comments came after provincial opposition to the carbon price plan gained even more strength this week when Manitoba did a sudden about-face on its intention to impose a $25-per-tonne carbon price this fall.


Manitoba Premier Brian Pallister said he was backing off because he could not get Ottawa to promise it wouldn't force Manitoba to raise the price or risk the federal government imposing its own, additional carbon tax on top of it.

Ottawa passed legislation last spring to give it authority to impose a carbon price on any province without its own beginning Jan. 1, 2019. It is starting at a minimum of $20 per tonne, rising $10 per year until 2022.

All provinces were to submit their plans for federal review by Sept. 1, and Environment Minister Catherine McKenna told The Canadian Press recently the reviews are still underway. Any province that doesn't meet the federal standard will be subject to a federal carbon price on most fuel sources, like gasoline and natural gas, and big emitters have to join an industrial program that caps emissions by industry and charges the carbon price on emissions above those caps.

When the legislation was introduced as part of the budget implementation bill in March, it seemed as if Saskatchewan may be the only province where it would be needed. Premier Scott Moe is asking the courts to decide if Ottawa has jurisdiction to impose a carbon tax on his province against its will.

Ontario's new Progressive Conservative government under Premier Doug Ford scrapped that province's cap-and-trade system in July and launched his own legal challenge of Ottawa's plan.

The blueprint Prince Edward Island submitted did not include a carbon tax and Premier Wade MacLauchlan says his province has a plan to meet its emissions reduction targets without one.

New Brunswick's government is in flux following the recent election, but current Premier Brian Gallant intends to try to rename a portion of the existing gas tax in lieu of a new carbon tax, and Tory leader Blaine Higgs, who could become premier, says he refuses a carbon price and will join the lawsuit if he takes office.

Even Alberta Premier Rachel Notley, who introduced her own carbon price system before Ottawa required it, is now refusing to raise it in line with federal requirements because Alberta is irritated the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion is in limbo. Alberta United Conservative Party Leader Jason Kenney, the front-runner to win the Alberta election next year, has promised to scrap the Alberta carbon price entirely if he is elected.

Newfoundland has not made public the contents of its carbon plan proposal submitted to Ottawa.

That leaves, at the moment, just Quebec and British Columbia. Quebec's incoming premier Francois Legault, whose Coalition Avenir Quebec party won a majority government on Monday, intends to maintain Quebec's cap-and-trade system. B.C.'s NDP government under Premier John Horgan already has a carbon tax of $35 per tonne, raising it $5 last spring. B.C. has had a carbon tax since 2008.

Despite the fractured provincial landscape, Trudeau will not be dissuaded.

"We have decided as a government, and Canadians asked us to do this in 2015, that we are going to put a price on pollution," he said Friday.

Climate change is the "most economic and social challenges and geographic challenges of our time," he added.

Alberta Conservative MP Mike Lake challenged Trudeau's assertion he has a mandate for a carbon price, pointing out that people are voting provincially for parties that oppose the idea.

"It's clear that Canadians, through the provincial elections, are stating their opposition to the carbon tax in big numbers," he said. "This is the absolute cornerstone of their climate plan, and it's disintegrating around them."

Federal officials say there'll be no problem adding Manitoba to the growing list of provinces where Ottawa will have to apply a carbon tax -- but they're still not ready to say exactly how the revenues raised by the tax will be given back to people in those provinces.

"We're still completely on track to implement in regions where it is required by Jan. 1," said an official in McKenna's office.

It is understood that the government must have all the reviews done and the plans in place by early December if a Jan. 1 implementation date is to be met. An announcement on how carbon price rebates will work is likely to come when Ottawa announces which provinces have not met the federal standard.

There is some confusion about what all the carbon price opposition means for a $1.4-billion federal Low Carbon Economy Fund. Only provinces that are part of the Pan Canadian Framework on Clean Growth and Climate Change are supposed to be eligible for the fund, and Ontario's $420 million share is "under review" following its decision to cancel both cap and trade and the GreenOn home retrofitting program which was to be partially funded by the federal cash.

However, McKenna's official said this week that Manitoba's $66-million share is not at risk, because Manitoba has other elements of its climate plan that fit with the fund. Ontario, she said, currently does not.


https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canadians-voted-for-a-carbon-tax-trudeau-says-as-provincial-blowback-grows-1.4122934
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for the record ... I was never asked in 2015 about a carbon tax, and I never heard anyone calling for a carbon tax that was more than half a mile from the government or a campus.

How does a carbon tax fix the air? And how do we know it works? What is the purpose of the tax? How is it to be assessed? Is Andrew got a better way of screwing us? Or will it end up paying for the Liberal's blunder on the pipeline?

Why do we think the 'science' is any good? http://torontosun.com/opinion/.....ange-goals

Many of the same core group put Ontario into a "Green Energy" plan that is an undeclared fiasco. They sold part of Hydro to hide their blunders from the public. My electricity bill looks like a stockbroker's account. The current I use is NOT the biggest
item on it. In fact, my bill will come to two to three times my actual electricity consumption! If you're in the right category, for instance, you can get subsidies ... eligibility relies upon the usual racial and gender categories.

They don't care if it doesn't work if it reduces carbon. And makes them rich. It's perfectly OK with them -- at this point in the cycle -- if the reductions in carbon the result of a depression, with plants closing, fewer airline flights, all the rest ...

Which doesn't mean they want that outcome. I think they actually believe their own BS more than anyone else. They are saving the world and that's more important than jobs.

If someone would say -- we'll do it when China and India do it -- what would be wrong with that?
queenmandy85





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A more effective way to reduce carbon emissions would be to cap the production, export and import of fossil fuels. It would preserve our reserves for more important uses such as lubricant and petro-chemicals. In its place, we build our nuclear capacity for both domestic use and export. Western Canada is the Saudi Arabia of uranium.
queenmandy85





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheer, Ford, Legault, Moe, and Kenny better be hoping Trudeau doen't abandon carbon pricing because it is the best ballot box question they could ask for.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But there are those who believe in real science ... as opposed to religion.

Why would ANYONE want to throw our children's futures away to chase an unproven theory for a problem that may not even exist and for which there is no engineering solution available today?

Should there be a measurable affect? Can we have benchmarks so we know if it is working?

What I notice about supporters of these climate claims is that they know less about climate science that the critics. What will solve the problem, as long as India and China are pumping out pollution at an ever-expanding way?

Scheer is one of you guys, btw. He just plays to the crowd, finger in the air, and we don't expect much of him.
queenmandy85





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right. I am not a physist. So, I listen to people who are smarter and more knowledgeble than me. I listen to people like the late Stephen Hawking. Are you smarter than he was?
By the time we see the unmistakeble effects of global warming, it will be too late.
The solution is to stop burning fossil fuels. We will still need to burn some coal to make steel, but as an energy source, we have ample uranium and thorium. Nuclear power means more jobs in western Canada.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
By the time we see the unmistakeble effects of global warming, it will be too late.


That's it ... it's because by the time we wake up, it'll be too late, so we better do something now, just in case ... even though we don't know what to do.

Well, it isn't just in case-ish at all. It's a multi-$billion expenditure on ... just what, exactly? Putting a tax on carbon is supposed to force industries to spend their profits on buying permission to pollute. It's like the milk cartel for air.

How is that going to fix whatever it is you want fixed? China and India will just keep adding to their pollution at exactly the same rate they would, whatever WE do. And that's where the growth in air pollution is -- as well as all the other kinds of nature destruction there is that the environmentalists don't care about. In Asia.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/the-most-polluted-cities-in-the-world-ranked/8/

In other words, it won't make any difference!
queenmandy85





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have my doubts about the effectiveness of pricing carbon. It has had some positive effect in BC and has not adversely affected the economy. However, we have reached a point where more draconian measures are needed.
We have known carbon emissions will hinder re-radiation of heat from the planet for over 40 years. The effect can be modeled in any undergraduate physics lab with measureable and predictable results. Our key problem is a failure of the education system. It isn't a "what if" situation. It will come. We will really start to experience it within three centuries. The problem is, we are approaching the point where we won't be able to stop it.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You call Vancouver's carbon tax a big environmental success?

They imposed a steep tax on fuels and are using the money (at least part of it) to build a new public transportation because their traffic problems have been so bad, and getting worse.

It's a good idea apart from the climate issue, except the car drivers are perhaps being exploited. The global warming ideology gives them cover, justifies penalizing one group of citizens, and not the group that will benefit.

Will it reduce or freeze the sale of gasoline in BC? Possibly for a year or so, but not for long.

Will it produce a measurable improvement in CO2 being dumped into the atmosphere? Not a chance as long as China and India go their merry way.

I think it's probably a good project on its own merits. The "green" stuff is just to fool people.
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Manitoba pulls out of Carbon Tax plan

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