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RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Public Service ordered to use gender neutral language Reply with quote

( a bizarre directive was sent out to government employees , ordering them to stop using genders and instead use gender neutral language when speaking to people )



Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule


According to a directive issued to managers and team leaders, employees of Service Canada are asked to use gender-neutral or gender-inclusive language to avoid “portraying a perceived bias toward a particular sex or gender.” Families Minister Jean-Yves Duclos told reporters Wednesday that Service Canada’s policies are a matter of respect.



Families, Children and Social Development Minister Jean-Yves Duclos, shown in this file photo, wrote on social media, “Let us be clear, @ServiceCanada_E will continue to use Mr/Ms when interacting with Canadians. We are only confirming how people want to be addressed as a matter of respect.”



By Morgan LowrieThe Canadian Press

Wed., March 21, 2018



MONTREAL—Canadian activists praised Service Canada’s decision to ask its employees to adopt gender-neutral language when interacting with the public as a step toward greater inclusivity, while members of the political opposition mocked the policy mercilessly.

Families Minister Jean-Yves Duclos defended the federal institution’s internal directive Wednesday, saying it was a matter of respect and an effort “to adapt to the reality of 21st-century families.”

According to the directive issued to managers and team leaders in January, Service Canada employees are asked to use gender-neutral or gender-inclusive language to avoid “portraying a perceived bias toward a particular sex or gender.”


Workers are instructed to use a client’s full name or ask how they would prefer to be addressed instead of using honorifics such as Mr., Mrs. or Ms., which “can be seen as gender specific by a client,” reads the memo, which was first obtained by Radio-Canada.

They are also being asked to eschew the terms “father” and “mother” in favour of “parent.”


Some members of the opposition were quick to criticize the directive, including Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer, who described it as “ridiculous.”

Rheal Fortin, the former Bloc Québécois MP who now sits as an Independent, concurred, saying, “it’s bordering on hare-brained.”

“I almost want to say I’m glad they don’t have any bigger problems than that at Service Canada,” he joked.

But Duclos told reporters that Service Canada’s policies are a matter of respect.

He specified in a tweet the government department is not eliminating the use of Mr. or Ms.

“Let us be clear, @ServiceCanada_E will continue to use Mr/Ms when interacting with Canadians,” he wrote on social media.

“We are only confirming how people want to be addressed as a matter of respect.”

Two prominent activists praised the initiative, describing it as a positive step toward inclusivity.

Helen Kennedy, executive director of national LGBTQ human rights organization Egale Canada, praised the directive as “a good first step” but said it needs to be accompanied with more awareness training and education around non-binary and gender-neutral language.

“Some people may be very well-intentioned but they may not have the understanding or knowledge that they need in order to ask the right question in a manner that‘s not going to be offensive,” she said in a phone interview.

The backlash from the opposition is a sign of how far Canadian society still has to come when it comes to inclusion, she said.

“Issues around gender-neutral language are extremely important, and they may not be important to the opposition but I can tell you they’re very important to members of our community,” Kennedy said.

Gabrielle Bouchard, the first transgender president of Quebec’s main women’s federation, called the move a step toward “making sure all Canadians can start an interaction with civil servants in the right way.”

In a phone interview, she said neither she nor the policy were advocating for an end to the use of gendered pronouns, noting that some transgender people prefer to use “Mr.” or “Ms.” as a way of reaffirming their gender.

“What we want isn’t the elimination of choice, what we want is to add more choice,” she said.

Duclos’ press secretary, Emilie Gauduchon-Campbell, said the directive was issued in response to requests from members of the public who criticized Service Canada for a lack of inclusivity, including same-sex parents who complained about the mother/father designation.

She added Duclos did not see the internal directive before it was circulated Jan. 18.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau declined to respond Wednesday morning to the initial Radio-Canada report, saying he needed more time to look into the matter.


https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/03/21/minister-defends-service-canadas-gender-neutral-language-amid-opposition-criticism.html
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Service Canada's gender neutral directive is 'confusing' and 'will be corrected' says minister



Front-line workers asked to use gender-neutral term 'parent' instead of mother or father


Catharine Tunney, Peter Zimonjic · CBC News · Posted: Mar 21, 2018 8:38 AM ET | Last Updated: 5 hours ago


Service Canada's front-line staff must now 'use gender-neutral language or gender-inclusive language,' according to a directive obtained by CBC/Radio-Canada. (Shutterstock)


8027 comments


A federal cabinet minister says a directive to Service Canada agents telling them to use gender-neutral language — such as 'parent' instead of 'mother' or 'father' — when speaking to the public was badly worded and will be corrected.

The directive, obtained by Radio Canada, the French-language arm of CBC, instructs Service Canada employees who interact with the public to stay away from terms such as Mr., Mrs., father and mother, and to "use gender-neutral language or gender-inclusive language."

"This avoids portraying a perceived bias toward a particular sex or gender," says a copy of speaking notes prepared for managers and team leaders. "It is important that Service Canada, as an organization, reflects Canada's diverse population and ensures that the views and interests of Canadians are taken into account when we develop policies, programs, services and initiatives."

The move was quickly mocked by the Conservative opposition, who suggested Father's Day and Mother's Day would be renamed to be gender-neutral.

But in an interview with CBC News Network's Power & Politics, Minister of Families, Children and Social Development Jean-Yves Duclos said that the directive is more about asking Canadians how they want to be addressed — and then following that advice.

"The directive that was sent this morning was confusing it will be corrected ... so that it's clear Service Canada agents have the respectful responsibility to do exactly what they are paid to do," Duclos told guest host David Cochrane.


Social Development Minister Jean-Yves Duclos on a directive issued to Service Canada employees around the use of gender-neutral terms. 6:18

Duclos went on to say that agents will continue to use honorifics such as Mr. and Ms., providing the people they're speaking to agree to be identified with those terms.

"Now, when there is uncertainty as to how Canadians want to be respectfully greeted by Service Canada agents, Service Canada agents will politely and respectfully ask Canadians how they want to be greeted."


The uncorrected guidelines rule out using terms such as mother and father because they are "gender specific" and say the neutral word "parent" should be used instead.

The same goes for honorifics such as Mr., Mrs., and Ms., and in both languages. Instead, the guidelines instruct employees to address customers by their full names, or to ask them what they want to be called.


Service Canada helps Canadians connect with a variety of government programs, including Employment Insurance, the Canada Pension Plan and Old Age Security.

Updating government forms

According to an official — who asked to remain anonymous because they are not authorized to speak on the issue — the new directive is already in place and has led to some difficult situations for civil servants.

"It happens that we talk to people and we ask, 'What is the name of parent number one?' People do not understand," said the official.

Helen Kennedy, executive director of the LGBT rights group Egale Canada, said her group was "very pleased" to hear about the changes. She said people who don't fit into "neat boxes" often have uncomfortable and negative experiences accessing government programs.

She also urged the government to provide staff with training on why it's important to properly gender people.


"Otherwise there will be a state of confusion," she said.

Conservative MP and Treasury Board critic Gérard Deltell said there are more important issues for the government to concentrate on right now.

"Maybe one day this government will decide to cancel each and every Mother's Day or a Father's Day," he said.

In addition to the changes in how staff interact with the public, the directive indicates that Service Canada is also in the process of amending some service forms, including the Social Insurance Number application form.

Canadians are already able to identify as gender 'X' on their passports.

The new directive also includes a warning that agency employees will be observed to ensure they are following the protocols.

"Going forward, the proper use of gender-neutral language will also be added to the observations in the In-Person Quality Monitoring Program," the directive said.

Earlier this year, a same-sex couple from Nova Scotia called for Service Canada to update its forms so that men don't have to declare a "maiden name" in order to get SIN numbers for their children.

Nick Bonnar and Graham MacDonnell said they ran into a roadblock when an agent told them they had to provide a maiden name to complete and process the electronic form.

Last summer, the Liberal government passed a law enshrining protections for transgender Canadians. The bill updates the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code to include the terms "gender identity" and "gender expression."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politic.....-1.4585629
RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 8654
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duclos defends gender-neutral language amid criticism from opposition

Jean-Yves Duclos
Jean-Yves Duclos, Minister of Families, Children and Social Development, on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Feb. 2, 2016. (Sean Kilpatrick / THE CANADIAN PRESS)



Morgan Lowrie, The Canadian Press
Published Wednesday, March 21, 2018 11:49AM EDT
Last Updated Wednesday, March 21, 2018 5:35PM EDT


MONTREAL -- Canadian activists praised Service Canada's decision to ask its employees to adopt gender-neutral language when interacting with the public as a step toward greater inclusivity, while members of the political opposition mocked the policy mercilessly.

Families Minister Jean-Yves Duclos defended the federal institution's internal directive Wednesday, saying it was a matter of respect and an effort "to adapt to the reality of 21st-century families."

According to the directive issued to managers and team leaders in January, Service Canada employees are asked to use gender-neutral or gender-inclusive language to avoid "portraying a perceived bias toward a particular sex or gender."


Workers are instructed to use a client's full name or ask how they would prefer to be addressed instead of using honorifics such as Mr., Mrs. or Ms., which "can be seen as gender specific by a client," reads the memo, which was first obtained by Radio-Canada.

They are also being asked to eschew the terms "father" and "mother" in favour of "parent."

Some members of the opposition were quick to criticize the directive, including Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer, who described it as "ridiculous."

Rheal Fortin, the former Bloc Quebecois MP who now sits as an Independent, concurred, saying, "it's bordering on harebrained."

"I almost want to say I'm glad they don't have any bigger problems than that at Service Canada," he joked.

But Duclos told reporters that Service Canada's policies are a matter of respect.

He specified in a tweet the government department is not eliminating the use of Mr. or Ms.

"Let us be clear, ΓåòServiceCanada--E will continue to use Mr/Ms when interacting with Canadians," he wrote on social media.

"We are only confirming how people want to be addressed as a matter of respect."

Two prominent activists praised the initiative, describing it as a positive step toward inclusivity.

Helen Kennedy, executive director of national LGBTQ human rights organization Egale Canada, praised the directive as "a good first step" but said it needs to be accompanied with more awareness training and education around non-binary and gender-neutral language.

"Some people may be very well-intentioned but they may not have the understanding or knowledge that they need in order to ask the right question in a manner that's not going to be offensive," she said in a phone interview.

The backlash from the opposition is a sign of how far Canadian society still has to come when it comes to inclusion, she said.

"Issues around gender-neutral language are extremely important, and they may not be important to the opposition but I can tell you they're very important to members of our community," Kennedy said.

Gabrielle Bouchard, the first transgender president of Quebec's main women's federation, called the move a step toward "making sure all Canadians can start an interaction with civil servants in the right way."

In a phone interview, she said neither she nor the policy were advocating for an end to the use of gendered pronouns, noting that some transgender people prefer to use "Mr." or "Ms." as a way of reaffirming their gender.

"What we want isn't the elimination of choice, what we want is to add more choice," she said.

Duclos' press secretary, Emilie Gauduchon-Campbell, said the directive was issued in response to requests from members of the public who criticized Service Canada for a lack of inclusivity, including same-sex parents who complained about the mother/father designation.

She added Duclos did not see the internal directive before it was circulated Jan. 18.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau declined to respond Wednesday morning to the initial Radio-Canada report, saying he needed more time to look into the matter


https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/duclos-defends-gender-neutral-language-amid-criticism-from-opposition-1.3852326
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People instructed to address others as gender neutral until confirmed.

Aand this is something to get worked up over?

Ok.

Slow news day I guess. Next up ... Door entrance #3 will only have the right side locked in the mornings.
Bugs





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votes: 8

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People instructed to change their culture in order to pander to c***suckers in dresses?

Do we pretend that the civil service is a 'genderless' realm? Mmmmm? Because if we're in that dream, we'd be wrong.

Do we ignore the fact that the state is always looking for women to fill the managerial jobs as a matter of policy? That'd be systematic discrimination wouldn't it? I mean, if a private outfit was looking for people to climb 100 foot towers and install heavy stage lighting fixtures at rock concerts ... and was making no effort to recruit women ... there'd be shit to pay. Or at least they'd worry about it.

Sitting to pee is an actual qualification for management positions in the Ontario civil service. Wearing a "strap on" probably doesn't do you any harm, career-wise, either.

Are we supposed not to laugh at silly asses that don't know that we distinguish between men and women because we treat women preferentially -- in the culture as a whole? Systematically? What kind of clueless twirp doesn't know that?

It's the culture, stoopid. You won't notice if you have none.
Toronto Centre





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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
People instructed to change their culture in order to pander to c***suckers in dresses?

And here is EXACTLY why you are treated like an ignorant small town fool .

NO one , anywhere , was asked to change their culture. NO one. But you like to make things up.

Add in a deplorable way of addressing someones sexuality when it is none of your business and well... here we are.

But whats so funny is that something so benign and having absolutely nothing that will affect you.... you get soooo triggered ! Just like all the snowflakes you want to rant about and here you are , triggered that someone somewhere is addressing someone somewhere w another name. LOL!

Keep at you small town ignoramus. Good thing your type are dying (old dumbasses) off.
Quote:

Do we pretend that the civil service is a 'genderless' realm? Mmmmm? Because if we're in that dream, we'd be wrong.

Pretend? LOL!

Its not pretend , it is by fact genderless. Is it ever described as male or female civil service?
LOL!
Quote:


Sitting to pee is an actual qualification for management positions in the Ontario civil service. Wearing a "strap on" probably doesn't do you any harm, career-wise, either.

49% of men sit to pee. (according to Japan study-https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/bnpgp8/how-pissing-siting-down-become-a-thing-for-men-456)

So , ya know, I guess you are right , but that wasnt your attempt... so LOL!
Quote:
What kind of clueless twirp doesn't know that?

YOU apparently. LOL!
Quote:

It's the culture, stoopid. You won't notice if you have none.

Conmsidering you are about as couth and cultured as dumbass small town thinker , Im guessing you never had any.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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votes: 8

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, gender isn't a part of our legacy, our heritage? Our culture? I never knew.

Anthropologists will be surprised. They think that gender is part and parcel of all systems of kinship, and kinship is the heart and soul of culture. I hope you have told them that they're wrong, and a century of work is obsolete because we've decided gender is just a 'construct'.

TC's argument illustrates how hard it is to defend this stupidity. If an ignorant small town 'ham and egger' like me (actually I take the fruit and fibre muffin and coffee deal) can make such a monkey out of him, what can he do but sputter? When an opponent sparks with anger and a blindly denies reality, what does it tell you?

He has no answer. Just hot air. That's how you know he lost.

You know what "genderless" means in his world? It means a work sphere where there are special programs that supposedly make up for the assumed injustices of the past and enforce ever-changing 'standards' on men, as a condition of work.

TC's employer hires on the basis of race and sex. It is at the core of its human resources strategy.

TC just pretends that it is 'genderless' where he works, and he can't tell us what those past injustices were in the context of the times. He just believes the 'line' uncritically. Because that's the kind of guy he is. In the vernacular of today, a beta orbiter. In my more vintage language, a twirp.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Oh, gender isn't a part of our legacy, our heritage? Our culture? I never knew.

No surprise there.

Gender is a part of our legacy? Heritage? Is our heritage or legacy that which encompasses males or females unique?

Nope, ergo....LOL wrong again.

Quote:


TC's argument illustrates how hard it is for me to understand simple concepts

Fixed it for you.
Quote:


You know what "genderless" means in his world? It means a work sphere where there are special programs that supposedly make up for the assumed injustices of the past and enforce ever-changing 'standards' on men, as a condition of work.

Nope!

Means there is no male or female exclusive jobs.
Quote:

TC's employer hires on the basis of race and sex. It is at the core of its human resources strategy.

TC just pretends that it is 'genderless' where he works, and he can't tell us what those past injustices were in the context of the times. He just believes the 'line' uncritically. Because that's the kind of guy he is. In the vernacular of today, a beta orbiter. In my more vintage language, a twirp.


Ooooooh...look at you making up more ignorant crap.

You are so funny, so triggered by simple concepts and words. Grampa Simpson shouting at the sky.

You dont know where I work.
You have no idea what i do.
You have no idea the makeup of my office.

Not.
A.
Clue.

LOL!
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 5672
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votes: 8

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When a guy has to change someone else's words it kinda says the discussion is over.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
When a guy has to change someone else's words it kinda says the discussion is over.

Hmm... I wonder who has done that ad naseum?

Thinking...thinking....
Bugs





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votes: 8

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TC, a word of advice from an old 'ham and egger' ... you need better material. This is playground level stuff, about Grade III to be honest.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
TC, a word of advice from an old 'ham and egger' ... you need better material. This is playground level stuff, about Grade III to be honest.


I dont get advice from a ham and egger. The definition of it shall explain.

I will go all day pointing out the hypocrisy , small mindedness, homo/xeno phobic of anyone.

Including you.

Nice try though.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 5672
Reputation: 281.3
votes: 8

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It must be awful to be such a bore ... at your age.

No wonder ... I attribute a lot of it to your choice in women, tho' maybe you don't have any choice. What is she, not an abortionist? ... but perhaps someone who counsels women or schedules abortions? Something important and meaningful, and sucking public money.

You should come out to the country for awhile. People would take the mickey out of you in no time.
Toronto Centre





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Posts: 1079
Reputation: 115.9
votes: 4
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
It must be awful to be such a bore ... at your age.

LOL !
Quote:

No wonder ... I attribute a lot of it to your choice in women,

See....now this is a head scratcher.

You have no idea what type size colour of woman/women Ive chosen to be with. So where does this come from?
Very strange to say the least.
Quote:

What is she, not an abortionist? ... but perhaps someone who counsels women or schedules abortions? Something important and meaningful, and sucking public money.

Oh soooo close , but in fact the exact opposite.
Quote:

You should come out to the country for awhile.

Out there all the time , and from April to Nov I am there every weekend.
Quote:
People would take the mickey out of you in no time.

No they won't , nor would they try.

The educated ones at least. The ham and eggers get ignored .
RCO





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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Martin: Trudeau's rush to unilaterally impose political correctness will generate backlash


Don
Don Martin, Power Play Host

@DonMartinCTV
.
Published Thursday, March 22, 2018 5:52PM EDT


It was a week the Liberals’ fixation with political correctness became politically incorrect.

Amid a clear meltdown in Liberal government poll support, new moves on gender and tolerance issues were met by a head-shaking, eye-rolling, derision-snorting reaction from a public fed up with the excess of it all.

The government’s proud plan to road-trip consultations on racism, with an eye to infusing every policy with anti-discrimination measures, was quickly put on ice. Quebec MPs in the Liberal caucus sounded the alarm about the perils of cross-Canada hearings whipping up Islamophobia or worse.



And that bizarre Service Canada decree to ban gender specific terms like ‘father’ or ‘mother’, ‘Mr.’ or ‘Mrs.’ from all telephone communications had the government doing backflips to insist the policy had been refined.

The message seems to be finally getting through: Justin Trudeau has become so identified with kumbaya peoplekind priorities that he’s lost the appearance of leading a serious government.

After all, the budget bellyflopped into a mosh pit of multi-billion-dollar gender measures that will do nothing to help a working mother if she can’t find or afford child care.

That followed Trudeau’s heavily-costumed India tour with a cast of Indo-Canadian MPs in tow (minus his white foreign affairs minister) which was visual confirmation of a prime minister who valued symbols over deliverables.

And this all plays out to the ongoing soundtrack of appointments guided exclusively by gender, ethnic or indigenous criteria; where anti-abortion positions are deemed anti-Liberal; and where the world’s most dangerous peacekeeping assignment is sold as a gender-boosting exercise.

What’s worse, the push for inclusiveness is spreading beyond Liberal ideology. Nunavut’s premier is now vowing to force all government workers to speak fluent Inuktut languages, which would throw two-thirds of the territory’s workforce out of their jobs.

Suddenly defining acceptable conduct within increasingly narrow political tolerances is what will make less-progressive candidates like Ontario’s Doug Ford or Alberta’s Jason Kenney more electable to fed-up voters.

The route to lasting political correctness requires the tolerance and patience to nudge societal change forward.

Justin Trudeau’s rush to impose it unilaterally, to the alienation of so many Canadians, will only generate a time-rewinding backlash.

That’s the Last Word


https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/don-martin-blog/don-martin-trudeau-s-rush-to-unilaterally-impose-political-correctness-will-generate-backlash-1.3854595
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Public Service ordered to use gender neutral language

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