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Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject: High-Tech Danish Arctic ship 10% of cost of Irving Ships Reply with quote

Quote:
High-tech Danish Arctic ship raises questions why Canada paying 10 times the cost for similar vessel
David Pugliese, Ottawa CitizenDAVID PUGLIESE, OTTAWA CITIZEN
Published on: April 9, 2018 | Last Updated: April 9, 2018 9:09 AM EDT

Last week I wrote an item about a Danish Arctic patrol ship that visited Halifax April 4-5.

The EJNAR MIKKELSEN (EJMI) is one of three KNUD RASMUSSEN-class Arctic vessels, supplementing the four units of the larger THETIS-class, Lt. Col. Per Lyse Rasmussen of the Danish embassy in Washington, pointed out to Canadian industry.

The ship is similar in design to Canada’s Arctic Offshore Patrol Ships (AOPS) being built by Irving but it is smaller. (Some readers on twitter have pointed out the Danish ship is much smaller in tonnage and has less range) What is also significantly smaller on the Danish ship is the cost. Each AOPS is estimated to cost $700 million. The Danish ships are estimated to cost $70 million to $80 million each.

The EJMI’s arrival has sparked a number of questions about why the Danes were able to put to sea three highly capable Arctic ships (albeit a little smaller than AOPS) but at such an incredible savings – $700 million vs $70 million to $80 million. There hasn’t been a lot of specific answers on that from the Canadian government, other than statements that the two types of ships are different and the AOPS will be more capable. Another aspect Canadian industry officials point out is that the KNUD RASMUSSEN hulls were built offshore – Poland – at less cost than if they were built domestically. Then Danish firms were awarded the real high-value work in integrating systems and providing high-tech systems for the ships.

A Defence Watch reader in Denmark also noted another advantage to the ships. All 3 of these vessels now have multi-beam sonars for hydrographic survey. The Greenland waters are far from fully covered for nautical charts, he pointed out. But a multi-beam sonar covers rapidly quite a sizeable area – and the results are just electronically sent to Denmark for production of charts.
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/.....lar-vessel


What are the chances that the Government of Canada doesn't know the market? That's why we have the civil service -- to give us the expertise. This strikes me as either outright corruption, or delusions of grandeur amongst our admirals ... or both.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The ship is similar in design to Canada’s Arctic Offshore Patrol Ships (AOPS) being built by Irving but it is smaller. (Some readers on twitter have pointed out the Danish ship is much smaller in tonnage and has less range) What is also significantly smaller on the Danish ship is the cost. Each AOPS is estimated to cost $700 million. The Danish ships are estimated to cost $70 million to $80 million each


What does much smaller mean?
And how much less range?

I love being outraged over government spending as much as the next guy but the article lacks some information I need in order to be properly outraged.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you think the Canadian navy's role is? Is it fnndamentally to defend Canada and Canadian waters? Or is it to play a small part in a larger imperial navy (NATO)?

If we took seriously the job -- which essentially means blocking the entrance to the St. Lawrence and the channel between Canada and Greenland on the east coast, and to block off the Western coast of Vancouver Island -- it would not cost that much.

But if your admiral wants to make a splash at the NATO meetings ...

There is also the little thing of ten times the price! Two or three times the price woud be normal, but ten times???
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not arguing its a reasonable cost yet;

I am simply saying the article doesn't provide me with enough information to make an assessment.

The alternate ship is smaller and slower;
How much so?
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High-Tech Danish Arctic ship 10% of cost of Irving Ships

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