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 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:04 am Post subject: Robocalls vs. Vikileaks: a Lefitist Double Standard? |
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"Opposition parties demanded the Conservatives come clean and provide information proving they were not involved in any telephone campaign to harass voters and direct them to non-existent polling stations.
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Harper rejected what he called "broad, sweeping" allegations from the opposition parties, and put the onus on the NDP and Liberals to provide evidence of wrongdoing."
http://www.montrealgazette.com.....story.html
Actually isn't that usually the way it is done in a free society? The party making an allegation has to present proof - not that they can demand evidence to prove otherwise.
Of course, what can we expect from a party still dejected about a sore loss - they just cannot accept that voters rejected them - en masse.
In their minds they think they can convince the same Canadians that this Robocall matter - is why they lost the election...they refuse to accept that Canadians are wearied of Liberal governance.
I'll be curious to see who is behind this one. Maybe the money trail will end up back with the dejected Liberals?
Knowing that they would be trounced in the election - they thus set the stage for a fabricated scandal? Would have seemed genius at the time?
Naturally, Bob Rae's comments about the violations of Minister Toews - by a Liberal - are typical of such a double-speaker.
I think that this immoral Liberal attack runs deeper than Adam Carroll - a lone "staffer" described as "perfectly nice". This IS something that a "perfectly nice" person would do?! LOL! What would "perfectly nice" Liberals do if they perceived a personal slight?
Trudeau was allegedly "*appalled to find out Vikileaks came from us Liberals." Yeah that's typical too...he states, "Yes, I tweeted about it, but I did not endorse it."
One can argue that his Tweets - i.e.: personal participation - were a complete endorsement?! Did he condemn the actions in his Tweets?
Perhaps the leader of the Liberals would like to come clean on what they knew and when they knew it!?
* http://www.montrealgazette.com.....story.html
Last edited by don muntean on Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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plantguy
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 448
  
votes: 1
Location: Lower Economy, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| I think it's worth noting that the tweets, while nasty, were legal. The robocalls, if proven, can carry a 5 year prison sentence. I don't think you can make a claim of equivilency here |
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| plantguy wrote: | | I think it's worth noting that the tweets, while nasty, were legal. The robocalls, if proven, can carry a 5 year prison sentence. I don't think you can make a claim of equivilency here |
I believe that I said "this immoral Liberal attack".
Of course, there may be a difference in terms of the law and elections Canada - but there is no doubt that the Vikileaks matter is immoral and unethical, it may have been illegal if it involved an abuse of the public trust - one can wonder - where did Carroll get the private information that he posted to the internet?
"The robocalls, if proven, can carry a 5 year prison sentence"
We'll see who ends up guilty - I don't think it's a Conservative. |
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:27 am Post subject: |
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I am perfectly content with the Liberals being behind Vikileaks either directly or indirectly.
The simple reality is that the Tories have a majority today because they were able to systematically destroy every single leader the Liberals put forth in the eyes of the public from "Adscam" to "Its not fair" to "Just Visiting".
The Liberals who now have less money, no per vote subsidy, and a 35 MP caucus just lowered the bar and made privates lives fair game a year removed from their next leadership convention.
Any high-ground the Liberals had regarding attack ads outside the context of an election is gone, and I would imagine has just lit the fire of everyone within the government political research arm.
This is one of those situation where you have a Vikileaks news cycle that lasts a week, yet fires up the grassroots Tories for years. |
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:03 am Post subject: |
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As for the opposition stance of "guilty till proven innocent" in regards to "Robocall-Gate", has the standard for Government ever really been that they are given the benefit of the doubt?
The reality is that the Liberals and to a lesser extent the NDP are still looking for a foothold issue, they are polling in the mid-20 while the Tories still sit in the mid-30's even after passing legislation the opposition had promise for years would result in the sky falling.
Whomever is behind this "scam" should be punished.
However its outcome on the election is minimal as the vast majority of ridings that are "effected" were won is such an overwhelming manner that a few dozen voters who actually gave up on voting after going to a non-existing polling station would not have made any difference.
Couple that with the fact that CPC voters also received these calls I question just how responsible any elected official is in this matter.
To your overall comment pertaining to the double standard;
Of course it exists,
however this is no different then Empty Field-Gate, Lightbulb-Gate, Blue Website-Gate, Olympic Logo-Gate, and any other "look the government is corrupt/incompetent/etc situation brought about by the Liberals.
Rather then attempting to battle in the political arena by being better policy makers then the Tories they are attempting the same boogieman tactics that have been largely ineffective since 2003.
If this is how the opposition wants to try and get elected in 2015, I welcome it. |
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| Super-excellent observations cosmostein!! |
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The information that Vikileaks released was not private information. |
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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LIBERALS & NDPers VERIFYING THAT THEY ARE EXTREME MORONS
Looks like the extremist in the far-left, whaco Liberal, and commie-loving NDP parties, as well as their Conservative detesting, bias, unfair and unbalanced co-conspirators in the press, are on another one of their witch hunts using their imagination, a great deal of fantasy, and unsubstantiated rumours, but lacking any evidence. Joe Friday use to say “just the facts, sir”. Its time these extremists started stating facts.
Where is the evidence? The opposition idiots need to present names if they are so sure Conservatives are responsible. These opposition morons should make themselves aware of libel laws. |
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| They don't need to present names, all they have to do is shriek about something and the media runs with it. The CPC is crucified no matter what, even if they are completely cleared of this the liberals won't believe it anyway, |
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Progressive Tory wrote: | | The information that Vikileaks released was not private information. |
By private I mean "private life".
We are yet to reach a point where ex girlfriends and former wives are carted in front of the media for the opposition delight as has seemingly become common place south of the border, however it appears we are rapidly approaching it. |
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| chilipepper wrote: | | They don't need to present names, all they have to do is shriek about something and the media runs with it. The CPC is crucified no matter what, even if they are completely cleared of this the liberals won't believe it anyway, |
Far to many CPC supporters view the "take it and run" approach with the media in regards to the CPC as a negative thing.
Robocall-Gate is perhaps the most legitimate grip the opposition has run with since 2006 and I question how effective it will be.
Micheal Ignatieff (or his caucus) held what seemed like a press conference a week slamming the Tories for this or that and the downside with all of this is that you have had a government mired in something or other since AdScam came out and it appears Canadians are generally "meh" to it.
Robocall-Gate would be more of a concern if it occurred two years from now and someone within the CPC caucus was wearing it.
However for now I am of the belief that I would sooner allow the opposition to punch themselves and as the NDP did yesterday compare it to something so much worse like funneling 100m dollars out of taxpayer coffers while the Tories continue to pass legislation which the media and opposition seem to be paying no attention to while they chomp down on this bone. |
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Robocall-Gate could go on for a few years yet though. |
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Progressive Tory wrote: | | The information that Vikileaks released was not private information. |
Agree. It was publocally accessible information. It was just not deemed as newsworthy as Tubs, like many others, had a marriage breakdown.
Liberal Senator and former Cabiniet Minister (F)art Eggleton tried to get his divorce proceedings sealed perhaps fearing ridicule in the future. The judge said 'no deal'.
Tubs set himself up for mockery by proclaiming that anyone opposed to him is standing with child pornographers.
No law was sbroken by the Liberal hack who put out Tubs' already public information. He should not have used computers paid for by taxpayers however.
As for the robo call business, where laws were broken, I find it hard to believe that any senior level Tory would have been dumb enough to be involved. If any were it will come out with time. It may or may not matter politically. |
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Progressive Tory wrote: | | Robocall-Gate could go on for a few years yet though. |
If a Tory MP ends up being Pierre Poutine;
Sure.
However if it remains all conjecture and speculation I have to wonder if this remains headline news beyond the NDP leadership convention, and if it does how about beyond the Liberal leadership convention.
The next election is three and a half years away and stands to be contested by at least two different leaders then we see now.
If we are still discussing this in a year (unless the first line of this post is the case) I would be very surprised. |
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Daveeire wrote: |
No law was broken by the Liberal hack who put out Tubs' already public information. He should not have used computers paid for by taxpayers however.
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I think the use of taxpayer funded computers was minimal;
Most of us check our personal emails at work, or go to check sports scores. The fact that the staffer used his gmail account for a few minutes at work is neither here nor there (IMO)
I fully agree that this situation is fair game.
However when the Liberals cry foul when the attack ads roll out a day or so after they select a new leader in 2013 I have to wonder if they have any right to complain about attacks outside the context of an election anymore? |
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