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Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject: May's Brexit plan fails for a second time Reply with quote

The Brexit Plan Failed Again: What Happened, and What’s Next?
March 12, 2019

• Britain’s Parliament on Tuesday soundly defeated Prime Minister Theresa May’s plan to exit the European Union, a 391 to 242 vote that is likely to delay Brexit and could derail it entirely. It is a devastating blow to Mrs. May that threatens her hold on power.

• The vote left the nation with no obvious way forward, just 17 days before the deadline for leaving the European Union. Parliament is sharply divided on when, how and even whether to proceed with Brexit, and whether to call an election or a second referendum.

Confusion and uncertainty deepen
Parliament’s rebuke to Prime Minister Theresa May, on the issue that has dominated British politics for three years, casts the nation’s political and economic future into confusion with just 17 days left until its scheduled exit from the European Union.

The vote is sure to intensify calls for her to either step down, call a general election, or both. Plenty of Conservative lawmakers would like to take her place as party leader and prime minister, but there is no obvious front-runner, and the outcome of a general election is just as unclear.

Mrs. May’s plan, painstakingly negotiated with the European Union, would have set the terms for Britain’s scheduled exit on March 29.

Unless Parliament takes some other action, Britain will leave the bloc on that date without a deal in place, which Brexit hard-liners insist would be fine, but which most lawmakers and economists say would be disastrous.

Parliament is set to vote Wednesday on whether to reject the prospect of a “no-deal” Brexit, and to vote Thursday on whether to seek a postponement of the March 29 deadline.

The bloc would have to agree to a postponement, which appears likely, but the duration of such a delay is uncertain.

“Let me be clear,” Mrs. May said after the defeat. “Voting against leaving without a deal and for an extension does not solve the problems we face. The E.U. will want to know what use we will make of such an extension.”

Tuesday’s vote was Parliament’s second rejection of the plan, and there was talk of a third vote, even closer to the deadline.

Not since the early 1990s had a prime minister faced a vote of no confidence. Mrs. May has experienced two in three months.

Parliament’s rejection of Mrs. May’s deal shifts the focus to a vote scheduled for Wednesday on whether to oppose leaving without a deal.

After Tuesday’s vote, the prime minister said she would not try to dictate to her party’s members how to vote on Wednesday.

“This will be a free vote on this side of the house,” she said.

A vote against a no-deal Brexit would most likely require pushing back the originally scheduled departure date of March 29, and Parliament is scheduled to vote Thursday on whether to seek a postponement.

Some hard-line Brexiteers insist that they would welcome a no-deal split as a clean and complete break from the European Union. But it is clear that most members of Parliament see it as more akin to driving over a cliff.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/world/europe/theresa-may-brexit-vote.html
=================================================

The "deal" was so unsatisfactory that it was defeated by 220 votes! The EU's approach is to make the deal so onerous that no other nation will take Britain's path.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: May's Brexit plan fails for a second time Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:


... that it was defeated by 220 votes! .

You spelled 149 wrong.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May is in one of the more unenviable situations a modern leader has been put in.

When Cameron resigned there wasn't exactly a line around the corner to serve as Prime Minister for what should have been two more years of a majority mandate after the referendum.

There as no positive outcome for whomever took over the country and had to deal with the looming Brexit.

I would imagine that there will be a new Prime Minister sooner rather than later and that this contest will draw far more interest than the last.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What strikes me is the difference between the British parliament and our own. These people are all clearly wrestling with a hard decision. Probably a majority in the House of Commons are against Brexit, but they appear to respect the referendum. They have factions that gain and lose supporters, and not all of the votes are corralled by the party leadership. It means speeches actually have the possibility of changing votes.

Watching question period in the Canadian Parliament is painful. Questions are answered with boilerplate, and the substance is simply ignored. There is extreme partisanship. From what I saw of the Justice Committee it was much better.

(By the way, anyone who thinks that the Liberal senators are not acting under party discipline should be undeceived. A free vote in the Senate would have a different result.)

What I see happening in Britain is an organic process with lots of inputs from outside interests, and on respectful evaluation of other's ideas, apart from party membership. They'll figure it out. A lot of what was wrong in May's approach is that it didn't anticipate such a vengeful negotiating partner. The EU's negotiators wanted to make the path hard to discourage "les autres". They want to make an example of Britain so that Italy and others abandon that project.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: May's Brexit plan fails for a second time Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
Bugs wrote:


... that it was defeated by 220 votes! .

You spelled 149 wrong.


TC will, no doubt, be surprised to know that the negotiations have been going on for more than a year and her original deal was defeated ... check the spelling on this ... by 220 votes,

Quote:
Historic defeat for Theresa May on Brexit vote
(((Deal rejected by 432 votes to 202))).

By CHARLIE COOPER 1/15/19, 8:40 PM CET Updated 1/16/19, 12:27 AM CET

LONDON — British MPs rejected Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit deal by a record-breaking 230 votes, shrouding the U.K.'s path out of the European Union with doubt.

The vote in the House of Commons — 432 against and 202 for — means that the Withdrawal Agreement struck between May's government and the EU in November last year has fallen at the first hurdle. It must be ratified by the U.K. and European parliaments before it can come into force.

May’s government will face a no-confidence vote in the House of Commons on Wednesday, spearheaded by opposition Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn. However, May’s Conservative Party and parliamentary allies are expected to continue to support her despite the scale of the defeat being the largest any government has suffered in modern history. {....]
https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-deal-rejected-by-432-votes-to-202-2/
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
MPs have voted by 312 to 308 to reject leaving the EU without a withdrawal agreement.

It is not a legally-binding decision - and it does not rule out the UK leaving the EU.

But it means MPs could now get a vote on delaying Brexit.

That vote would take place on Thursday, and if it is passed - and the EU agrees to it - the UK will not leave the EU as planned on 29 March.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47562995
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was damn close;
Much closer than I would have assumed based on the spread of yesterdays vote.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I see it, it makes it worse. If the EU could keep politics out of it, and have an orderly dissolution of their former relationship, an agreement would be worth the 39 billion
Euros, or pounds sterling, that it would have to pay the EU.

But I don't think that's the case. If you listened to Rhees-Mogg on the subject -- a Tory -- the deal that May signed on to was terrible in every way. They had to accept EU regulations and standards, for example. It was summed up that Britain was out of the EU in every way except its laws, standards, regulations and taxes.

It's hard to imagine that May wanted a deal that bad. Central to EU's thinking is that they have already lost Britain, so they are using the negotiations to intimidate other populations that would be sympathetic to the idea. They don't want Holland, and Denmark to leave. The Euro countries have two reasons to get out.

So this resolution can be changed. It says there is a narrow majority to negotiate more. I don't see any prospect of success, because these people don't really want to get out of Brexit at all.
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May's Brexit plan fails for a second time

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