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Bugs





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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A different tone. which I appreciate.

You should forget the idea that you are the teacher and I (and the rest of this board) are the students. If we could lower the heat and really discuss the different points of view as points of view -- none of has all the info -- it might actually have a conversation that is worthwhile.

That's what I request of you. What do you request of me?

As for the steel -- you are ignoring the language in the new MCUSA deal that allows Mexico to bid on domestic infrastructure projects up to a certain level, and what may be more important -- the steel tariffs. Aluminium, too.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As for the steel -- you are ignoring the language in the new MCUSA deal that allows Mexico to bid on domestic infrastructure projects up to a certain level, and what may be more important -- the steel tariffs. Aluminium, too.


I can not find anything that suggests Mexico can bid and we cannot. There are exclusions insofar as the Ambassador Bridge and the pipeline but beyond that nothing.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to sully you with the sound of Ezra'voice -- showing the USAMC treaty text itself -- that gives Mexico the right to bid, at least in a reciprocal way, on such projects. I have already cited the video. In the text of Trump's order it underlines that nothing in his order contradicts the treaty, which, as you know, Canada bungled, and was essentially shut out of the main negotiation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSf_65QPu54 \

The relevant part goes from about the 9-minute mark until the 20-minute mark. Trigger warning: Ezra starts to evaluate the strategy behind Freeland's diplomacy at the 26:00-minute mark.

That reviews the executive order. This links to the USAMC DEAL THAT Mexico negotiated with the Americans in our absence. The relevant part starts at about 3:30 mark. which highlights the text of the document. (It's section 6, article 32.11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmjHzf7BHiQ

The impact can be measured. This is a report from the CBC whining about the steel & aluminium exports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fusOoxtFVWk
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not his voice , its his constant lying about things. So...sorry I will not waste my time w him.

In my research I can find nothing that suggests Mexico can bid and CDA cannot. Nothing.

There are of course the Ambassador Bridge exemptions, largely I suspect because we are paying the up front bill and collecting later .

The 25% tariffs are still in place for Mex/Can so not sure where your info is coming from.

Could you please link a financial paper that confirms Mexico can bid and we up here cannot?
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a shame you close your mind to the evidence. The video shows photos of the actual part of the documents which are relevant.

It would be much more impressive if you shot down this evidence with other, better evidence than the actual text of the USAMC agreement, and the Executive Order. Just saying you refuse to listen is weak. The point is the engage, not to assume a dismissive attitude.

However, if you just want to ignore this argument because you want another outcome, then it's really poor form to blame it on Ezra.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not that I am closed off to evidence. Its just that Ezra is continually full of shit. Witness the 'woe is me, the NDP party are restricting my rights" BS saga from a few weeks ago.

If he is right, then there would be pretty much a mountain of evidence elsewhere that confirms it , and seeing as you have not posted any, nor have I found any...means, in all likelihood it is not true.

So, if you have some docs please post. I have skimmed over the USMCA deal and find none to bolster either side.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add further, Mexico and Canada are still subject to a 25% tariff on steel. Presumably then that means both are locked out on bidding.

Add in that Mexico is apparently a dumping ground for cheap Chinese steel I cannot see how they would be exempt and we aren't.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a pile of shit pointed to a smoking gun, would the smoking gun not be evidence as a result of being found by the pile of shit?

In a rational universe, it's the smoking gun that counts.

TC, you came into this discussion proclaiming that if Trump wanted a trade war with Canada, he'd be sorry! You scored some points along the way, it has to be conceded, but at some point, you defend the Globe&Mail reader's version. And that version is (at least) inadequate. In my view, it's worse than a blackout, it's a fantastic recreation. That's the world we live in.

Our discussion works best if we sort out the issues at a deeper level to see how the Canadian interest is being served. It isn't just to get' the Liberals, despite what you think.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
If a pile of shit pointed to a smoking gun, would the smoking gun not be evidence as a result of being found by the pile of shit?

If other piles of shit said the same....yes.

But they don't, and your lack of any other confirmation is enough for me.

Quote:

TC, you came into this discussion proclaiming that if Trump wanted a trade war with Canada, he'd be sorry!

Categorically false. Show me.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Documentary evidence is preferred over a chorus from piles of shit.

I am not trying to persuade you of anything. All the way through this debate you have made extravagant claims that entirely overstated Canada's bargaining position. Example:
Quote:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:43 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Freeland, keep on doing the right thing !

A good deal both ways or no deal at all. Keep the dairy, tell the Yanks to stop making waaaaaay too much, ya know cuz they get subsidies to do so and we can chat in the future.

Auto trade , no worries, GM Ford and Chrysler have the ear of the gov't. They wont let this happen.
Not to mention far too many Republicans are smart enough to know that Canada is a major player for them.

Sunny days to come!
http://www.bloggingtories.ca/f.....12960.html


That's just one random selection. They're all over these threads, re-read them for yourself. Denial, denial, denial, is all we get and yet ... here we are.

Even forgetting that the deal has been signed yet, is there any doubt that we lost something of value?

In any case, even if you prefer the Globe&Mail version, you certainly maintained the Trump's trade efforts would be stymied in Congress, etc. You call him an Orange Idiot, taking a lead from that deep thinker on politics, Rosie O'Donnell. (Being a sushi-diver gets bonus credibility points with the dim, I know, but for we who prefer fact-based material, it doesn't add a single iota.)

To be clear, I am not scurrying around finding your own statements to confront you with. I have made a point which you are disputing. You could look up your remarks yourself, and perhaps a little honest appraisal would spark your memory. Where are your facts?





a
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From that you post that I thought we had Trump over a barrel?

Oh my.

"We" had nothing on the auto. It was , as said, GM FORD &Chrysler who did. They bent his ear.

And what did we lose? Nothing.

The auto sector has for years moved mfg'ing to Mexico to take advantage of the wages. No change there. The US jobs increase are non-existent. The robots building them have increased.

The dairy? No real change as evidenced earlier. (minor 1.5% change or similar) And my reaction to all of this dairy BS was to America to drop the $17B in subsidies that farmers get in order to level the playing field w Canada whereby our farmers get $0 subsidies. Yup, nada.

And Senators on both sides of the aisles want a fair deal w USMCA/NAFTA as it impacts their constituents.

Lastly our bargaining position is always hard. When you have an idiot like they have, who changes his mind when the deal is done, makes it even harder.

But we did get a deal done. And we have what we expected.

Point : Freeland.

I knew you'd have zero evidence of your assertions, re; me posting of our superior position on negotiating USMCA.

Now if you could only provide one piece of evidence to support your idea that Mexico is free to bid on American infrastructure while we cannot, then it would be a glorious day.

I dont expect it to be. So no worries there.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to be either blind or crazy, TC. I am not trying to humiliate you. Most people are wrong occasionally, except for you. We are back to where we were, and that's a very stupid place, but you seem to think it's "home field".

For the record, I am not trying to persuade TC of anything. If he wants to refute my allegation, he should produce evidence, not ask me to further establish my point. It's the gentle reader I want to reach, and if they followed, they know that TC has been dismissive of everything I said about this government since he hired three nannies. Events I am sure, will reveal all in time.

Addendum:
Quote:
President Donald Trump tweeted Wednesday morning that the Senate Intelligence Committee’s Russia investigation has exonerated him, finding “NO EVIDENCE OF COLLUSION” between his campaign and Russia. The tweet is misleading since the committee’s report is not yet complete.

But committee chair Sen. Richard Burr (R-NC) did recently tell reporters that after a lengthy investigation, he had not yet seen evidence of collusion. And NBC News reported Tuesday that Democratic committee sources also acknowledge their probe has so far uncovered “no direct evidence” of a conspiracy to interfere with the election ...
https://www.vox.com/2019/2/13/18223148/trump-richard-burr-russia-collusion-explained


Not that this wlll mean anything to the Globe&Mail reader.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
You have to be either blind or crazy, TC. I am not trying to humiliate you. Most people are wrong occasionally, except for you.

Psssh...I am and can be wrong quite a bit.
But I tend to read and not put out stuff without knowing.
Quote:
We are back to where we were, and that's a very stupid place, but you seem to think it's "home field".

We dont need to be.

So lets get this out of the way. You stated that ....
Quote:
It applies to all big public projects, including pipelines. Mexico can bid on those jobs, and we can't.

This is your assertion, I am asking for you to prove this. Somewhere the US must have this written, yet I cannot find it.
Please. Thats all.

Quote:
For the record, I am not trying to persuade TC of anything. If he wants to refute my allegation, he should produce evidence, not ask me to further establish my point.

You made the point. One must back up there own. Nothing so far can be found to agree, plenty of it that disagrees in general, ie the tariffs are still on for Mex/Can.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But I tend to read and not put out stuff without knowing.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ... (snort) ... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ... (whew) ...

That was a good one. Ezra is a liar and you tell the truth! Ezra is stupid and you are smart! You know everything ... even though Ezra showed you the document itself including the section of the USAMC treaty. If it's Ezra that points it out, it's not worth looking at!

A real laugh. The gentle reader will figure that one out for themselves.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
But I tend to read and not put out stuff without knowing.

Yup. try to anyway.

I won't just say things based on feels, you know , like "how can we arrest someone on CDN soil when they didnt do anything", and 'treaties dont work this way'.

Quote:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ... (snort) ... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ... (whew) ...

I am happy that you are pleased.
Quote:

That was a good one. Ezra is a liar and you tell the truth!

Thats not it.

However, Ezra has been caught multiple times lying. And his lies are what has put Rebel Media in a bind . Folks are seeing clearer that he does lie. If he were all that successful he would not have fled Toronto and stayed to enjoy his success. But he doesnt have any and is broke.

Quote:
. even though Ezra showed you the document itself including the section of the USAMC treaty. If it's Ezra that points it out, it's not worth looking at!


Now here is where you need to listen.

Yes, I denied myself the pleasure of watching Ezra. All true, but I did take time to try and find corroborating evidence to back up that assertion that Mex can bid on projects and we cannot.

Found nothing.

But then I reviewed and found out that this bill was signed two years ago and supersedes the USMCA and therefore not really relevant.

So I came back and asked if you had any other sites that could verify this info. None has been shown as yet.

I dont think there is any to be honest. I think you want it to be true, but sadly you have offered no real evidence of such.

And we both know that if Mexico could bid, and Canada could not, the papers (especially the business papers) would be screaming about it .

None are.

And that tells me your assertion is not true in any way shape or form.

And , once again, I ask you to show me. I doubt you will for reasons that I can only assume is embarrassment that you have made this assertion with nothing more than your feels. ..and Ezra.

Ok. So be it.
Quote:

A real laugh. The gentle reader will figure that one out for themselves.


I imagine they will .
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