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Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject: Climate Science & the Carbon Tax Reply with quote

Terence Corcoran: Ignore Trudeau's carbon-tax chorus. Nobel economists aren't backing this plan
Canada's carbon-tax plan would be dysfunctional and ineffectual, according to Nobel Laureate William Nordhaus's work
Terence Corcoran
October 31, 2018
12:22 PM EDT

In an effort to bolster the federal Liberals shaky arguments for a semi-national, cash-circulating Rube Goldberg carbon-tax price mechanism, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his government are pointing to the work of William Nordhaus, one of this year’s Nobel Prize-winning economists.

Canadians would be better off taking advice from a Nobel Prize winner who supports carbon taxation than listening to “ideologues and politicians who deny there’s a problem in the first place,” Trudeau told high school students in Ottawa on Monday.

Similar appeals to Nordhaus as bearer of a Nobel encyclical for the new tax have come from Environment Minister Catherine McKenna and Gerald Butts, Trudeau’s personal secretary. Butts, a former World Wildlife Fund activist, earlier this month tweeted: “You can now choose between a Nobel Prize-winning economist and (conservative politicians) Kenney/Ford/Scheer when deciding who is right about the economics of pollution pricing.”

Rube Goldberg, by the way, is the famed cartoonist from the early 20th century who drew images of wildly improbable contraptions. In 1931, he produced a pretty good illustration of a “Professor Butts” demonstrating his self-operating dinner napkin, which appears to function in roughly the same way as the climate-fixing carbon price. (The napkin contraption can be found at Wikipedia’s Rube Goldberg entry.)

Canada’s half-baked, go-it-alone deployment of such a regime is doomed

Aside from the twisted problems embedded in the Trudeau-Butts carbon-price scheme, there’s another niggling issue. Any reading of Nordhaus’s work on carbon taxation cannot avoid the conclusion that Canada’s half-baked, go-it-alone deployment of such a regime is doomed.

As I mentioned in a recent column on Nordhaus, the Nobel economist reached a “bottom line” conclusion in a 2014 paper that a carbon tax would require “clubs” of participating nations that would impose “penalties and sanctions on non-participants” to enforce international climate agreements. Unless most or at least a large number of major countries adopted a similar carbon tax and imposed direct tariffs of up to 10 per cent on all imports from non-carbon-tax countries (so-called free riders) then the carbon tax idea will fail — just like the Kyoto protocol, which set out to reduce greenhouse gas emissions back in 1997. (Emphasis added.)

In other words, based on Nordhaus’s own writing on the subject, the Nobel Laureate would have to assess Canada’s carbon tax plan as dysfunctional and ineffectual.

[....]

(Corcoran responded to a criticism that suggested BC's plan was a working model. This is his response.}

Except 95 per cent of the electricity produced in B.C. is hydropower and is not CO2-taxed. B.C. does import more coal-fired power than any other province, but the CO2 tax is not applied to imported electricity. Therefore the carbon tax has had next-to-no impact on the province’s electricity prices — in spite of its significant imports of coal-fired power from Alberta.

And it gets worse. If a utility burns B.C. natural gas to produce electricity in the province, the CO2 tax appears in the consumer’s utility bill. But if B.C. natural gas is shipped across the border into Washington, made into electricity there, and then exported back to the province, there’s no CO2 tax in the utility bill. How bizarre is that?

So, note to Leach: Make sure you find out what Nordhaus actually knows about the B.C. tax. And, while you’re at it, have a look at whether B.C.’s carbon tax has been effective in curbing emissions and fossil fuel use.

Finally, the suggestion that Nordhaus’s conclusion on the “bottom line” on carbon taxes was taken “out of context” does not stand up. In his 2014 paper, Nordhaus uses “bottom line” four times, including this reference from the abstract summary of his conclusions:

It “has proven difficult to overcome the obstacles to reaching international agreements caused by free-riding, as seen with the defunct Kyoto Protocol… The bottom line of this study is the following: Using a simplified representation of climate change economics and international trade, it finds that without sanctions there is no stable climate coalition other than the non-cooperative minimal-abatement coalition. However, a regime with small trade penalties on nonparticipants can induce a stable coalition with globally efficient levels of abatement. Moreover, such a regime would attract a large majority of countries relative to the current situation, where international climate treaties are essentially voluntary. The essential feature for making the club effective is uniform penalty tariffs on nonparticipants.”

Nordhaus is equally explicit in his 2013 book, The Climate Casino. On pages 256-7 (look it up), he says an effective climate policy involves a carbon price set nationally and internationally and enforced through sanctions, penalties and tariffs — as high as 10 per cent, he has suggested — applied across the board on all imports from non-complying countries.

The message to Leach and Butts is that the Trudeau carbon tax contraption does not follow the Nordhaus international trade model. As a result, the plan will not and cannot work. Look it up.
https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/terence-corcoran-ignore-trudeaus-carbon-tax-chorus-nobel-economists-arent-backing-this-plan
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Whether the world is warming or not, whether it is an actual crisis or not, the plan will not work. And Butts and his but-boy know it won't work. It's another one of these thigs they tell us that if we do it, the Americans will have to join. Martin told us that about Kyoto. But when did that every happen?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Majority of Canadians back carbon tax — Saskatchewan’s support is also growing: poll

As the Trudeau government continues to push its national carbon tax program, a new poll suggests a majority of Canadians may be behind the prime minister’s plan.

On Thursday, Angus Reid released its latest poll showing 54 per cent of respondents supported the soon-to-be-implemented carbon tax.

READ MORE: Confused about carbon taxes and rebates? Here’s what you need to know



The largest increase in support for the plan came from Saskatchewan, which saw an 18-percentage-point hike between July and October (11 per cent to 29 per cent). And the endorsement for carbon tax seems to be tied to the government’s rebate plan.





https://globalnews.ca/news/4618671/majority-canadians-support-carbon-tax-angus-reid/
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly ... they imply that nobody will be out-of-pocket because the taxes will be ... rebated? To whom? The individual tax-payer? Or to some provincial government agency? Like the Department of Climate Control, Public Information Section?

It's duplicity.

It's too bad the whole country can't get on a plane and jet away to Singapore like Trump did when he saw Justin was taking him for a fool.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Exactly ... they imply that nobody will be out-of-pocket because the taxes will be ... rebated? To whom? The individual tax-payer?


Gosh wally....how do I know you mouthed off without reading ?

"Last week, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said 90 per cent of all the money it collects from a carbon price will go directly to Canadian households.



Quote:

It's too bad the whole country can't get on a plane and jet away to Singapore like Trump did when he saw Justin was taking him for a fool.


Wow, you mean that disastrous Singapore trip he took? That one?

LOL!

No idea what that has to do with this, but hey, disconnect is a daily thing for you
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read Trudeau's statement. I just didn't believe them In fact, in my experience, the Liberals cannot do these kinds of transfers without doing some redistributing ...

But how could a family even know how much carbon tax they pay? The effect will be filtered into the price of commodities. Sorry, I just consider Justin's assertions to be part of the noise.

And when did it become good policy to tax the population and then to return that tax to them in the same year?

I know there are zealots and lo-watt followers who actually believe that Justin & Crystia won something in the trade deal. Any politician that would dish up delusion on that scale would certainly tell a lie to get past the next election. It isn't as if they've suddenly got integrity.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
I read Trudeau's statement. I just didn't believe them

Oh ok...sure thing there buttercup.
Quote:
In fact, in my experience, the Liberals cannot do these kinds of transfers without doing some redistributing ...

Oh do tell us your experience.
Please!

Quote:


And when did it become good policy to tax the population and then to return that tax to them in the same year?

Um.... you may wish to re-read that line again and answer it yourself.
Quote:

I know there are zealots and lo-watt followers who actually believe that Justin & Crystia won something in the trade deal.


Sure thing there bugs. All those experts , on both sides of the border heaping praise are all lo watt.
Got it.

But you............you....are the bastion of knowledge.

Thanks, its Friday and I needed a big laugh.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FUREY: Canada's carbon tax could go much higher after 2022 review
Anthony Furey
November 1, 2018

A government document quietly posted online confirms what many have long suspected: that the government is eyeing raising the federal carbon tax beyond the current ceiling of $50 per tonne.

On Wednesday, amendments to the federal carbon tax legislation were posted on the Canada Gazette – the government’s official newspaper – and the document describes how the already controversial $50 per tonne price that comes into full effect in 2022 may be just the beginning following a five-year review that could very well call for steep increases.

“The overall approach will be reviewed by early 2022 to confirm the path forward, including continued increases in stringency. The review will account for progress and for the actions of other countries in response to carbon pricing, as well as recognition of permits or credits imported from out countries,” reads the text. This text does not make its way into the actual legislation but is rather part of the “regulatory impact analysis statement” that explains the amended legislation.

This actually isn’t the first time versions of this text have cropped up in government documents though.

Earlier this year, when journalists and the public were only just starting to really pay attention to the issue, the government released a technical briefing paper on the carbon tax that explained that “the Pan-Canadian Framework includes a commitment for a review of the overall approach to pricing carbon by early 2022 to confirm the path forward.” This is pretty common stuff though, periodic reviews of legislation, so it perhaps wasn’t flagged as noteworthy to anyone. And the sentence ends at “path forward”, without specific references to increases.

But the full sentence first cropped up at least two years ago, before the issue was under its current degree of scrutiny. An October 2016 backgrounder from Environment and Climate Change Minister Catherine McKenna’s office uses that very sentence: “The overall approach will be reviewed by early 2022 to confirm the path forward, including continued increases in stringency.”

Now all of this makes total sense when you consider it from the Liberal perspective. As a number of astute observers, including my colleague Lorrie Goldstein, have pointed out multiple times, the current carbon tax levels are enough to be a pest on taxpayers but not enough to seriously put a dent on our current emissions levels or get us to our current targets.

Hence, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and McKenna have been criticized by environmentalists for basically just adopting the same targets as former PM Stephen Harper.

But surely the Liberals, with all of their passion for the issue, have known this all along. And they’ve left us a trail of breadcrumbs in their various backgrounder documents to tell us just that. [....]
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/furey-canadas-carbon-tax-could-go-much-higher-after-2022-review
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Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maxime Bernier says he's 'the only politician in Ottawa' against Paris Accord
Rachel Gilmore, Power Play producer
Published Tuesday, November 6, 2018 4:40PM EST

People’s Party Leader Maxime Bernier says he is against the Paris Accord, a high-profile UN framework that deals with greenhouse gas emissions mitigation.

“Actually, I’m the only politician in Ottawa who is against the Paris Accord,” Bernier told CTV News in an interview.

He went on to call the Trudeau government “hypocrites” for signing on to a deal with targets that he says they will fail to meet.

“They’re saying to people that they will achieve the targets of the Paris Accord and every expert, they know that they won’t. So why are you signing an agreement if you’re not able to achieve the goals that you said that you will achieve?” Bernier said.

“So that’s why we are against the Paris Accord.”

The deal entered into force on Nov. 4, 2016, a little under a year after its conception at the United Nations Climate Change Conference in Paris. Its central aim is to keep the global temperature from rising well below two degrees Celsius. Many countries set targets to toughen their climate action by 2020.

A recently released report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, however, warned that unless countries ratchet up their environmental efforts, the world could experience disastrous consequences of climate change even sooner than previously thought.

This isn’t the first time Bernier has spoken out against the Paris Accord. In an Oct. 7 tweet, Bernier said the Paris accord is “just a giant Marxist wealth redistribution scheme.”

Conservative Party Leader Andrew Scheer signalled his support for the Paris Accord when he affirmed in an April interview with CTV that his yet-to-be-unveiled climate plan will meet Paris targets.

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh has also pledged to put Canada “back on track” to meet the Paris Accord commitments.

Environment Commissioner Julie Gelfand revealed in her 2017 fall report that the federal government is poised to miss the mark on its 2020 climate targets. When Evan Solomon, host of CTV’s Question Period, pressed Environment Minister Catherine McKenna on Oct. 27 for an update on whether Canada can reduce emissions in time to meet the goals outlined in the Paris agreement, the minister wouldn’t say.

Instead, she highlighted different components of the government’s environmental initiatives.

Bernier has yet to reveal his party’s plan to deal with climate change.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/maxime-bernier-says-he-s-the-only-politician-in-ottawa-against-paris-accord-1.4165832
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This is a good start. Bernier's party ought to make the point that we'll do what the world does, but we won't be the tame elephant ... so, when the USA, China and India come aboard, we can look at the question again.
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Climate Science & the Carbon Tax

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