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Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess that means that butter knives are exempt? Or only if it's plastic?

Did you see the 'weapons' the London police took off the street? A lot of them would be tools in less hysterical times. Pliers, screwdrivers, even scissors etc.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/29224/heres-what-london-police-recovered-weapons-sweep-paul-bois

No butter knives, though. But it's foolish to expect government employees to be too discerning or conscientious. Can't rule out stupid, as you say ...
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but the point is none of this is going to do anything to target criminals , not the liberals new gun bill or the OPP gun amnesty , it only targets the legal gun owners


to say they've removed 270 weapons from the province does little to make me feel safer , when not 1 criminal who wants to acquire a gun or 1 person actually responsible for breaking into the homes of legal gun owners has been arrested and charged because of this amnesty


the guns being removed are low risk and how would a criminal ever know there was a hunting rifle hidden away in a typical home ? out of dozens of homes on the street how would they even know it was there ?


it seems this amnesty is just a way to pressure seniors and widows to turn in firearms when they legally don't have to and could give them to someone with a license or sell them to a gun store for resale


as to how its preventing any crime ? one would really wonder
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

an interesting story I saw on the internet today was that of Huntington West Virginia , a small city of 48,000 that most people have likely never even heard of


which is why its so shocking that in 2017 it had the 3rd highest per capita murder rate in the entire US behind only St Louis and Baltimore , there was around 22 murders in the city in 2017

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/12/18/1725521/-Huntington-WV-America-s-Heroin-Capitol-Moves-up-to-3-position-in-murder-rate-this-year

what possibly happened here ? its said the city is the centre of the Heroin epidemic but how did so much Heroin come to West Virginia of all places to begin with ? and why did the situation turn so deadly and violent in this small city ?


the answer seems to be that big city gangs and criminals moved in , a major drug raid this week claims to have uncovered a drug pipeline from Detroit Michigan to Huntington . a lot of the murders also seemed to have involved people from Detroit not the city itself

it seems the criminals had found a way to export big city crime to small city America , this should concern other similar sized cities . as if they could turn Huntington West Virgina into some sort of heroin addicted gangland , there is no reason to say it couldn't be somewhere else next time




UPDATE 4/17/18 @ 6:30 p.m.
The names of 15 of the people charged Tuesday in a multi-state operation targeting drug dealers, known collectively as Project Huntington, were released in a federal indictment.

According to the indictment from the U.S. District Court's Southern District of West Virginia, members of the "Peterson Organization," what investigators describe as a Detroit-Huntington connection, are:

•Willie Verdell Peterson, also known as "Chill"

•Manget Brown Peterson, also known as "Money"

•Lawrence Anthony Sykes Jr., also known as "Bogg"

•Eric Curtis Brown, also known as "Eddie"

•Nyanzangusa Baldwin, also known as "Botch"

•Jarred Moore, also known as "J"

•Corey Beach

•Luther Coleman Peterson

•Ashley Brooke Pardue

•Silas Soloman Pardue

•Charles Edward Graves Jr., also known as "Bo"

•Terrell Ledez Redd, also known as "Rell" and "Troy"

•Lonnie Freeman Berry II

•David John Miller, also known as "John"

•Malcomb Jerome Simmons, also known as "Mac"


All of the suspects have been charged with conspiracy to distribute heroin and fentanyl. Additional members of the gang will be arrested in Detroit.

In total, 90 people will be facing charges in West Virginia and Michigan. As of mid-Tuesday afternoon, about 40 people had been arrested -- not including ongoing arrests in the Detroit area.


http://www.wsaz.com/content/ne.....78093.html

Federal bust: Detroit-to-Huntington drug family ‘brought misery and chaos’


U.S. Attorney Mike Stuart leads an announcement of a major bust by a multi-agency task force.


By Brad McElhinny in News | April 17, 2018 at 3:32PM


HUNTINGTON, W.Va. — One brother was arrested in Detroit. The other brother was arrested in Huntington.

Together, the Petersons led an organization that brought large quantities of deadly heroin and fentanyl from Detroit to be sold in street-level amounts to Huntington, state and federal officials said Tuesday in announcing a drug bust that resulted in about 100 arrests.


http://wvmetronews.com/2018/04.....ug-family/
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
I guess that means that butter knives are exempt?

No.
This is not hard . A dictionary will set you right. They are books that tell you what words mean. Try it sometime.
Quote:

Can't rule out stupid, as you say ...

Certainly not in your case, obvious when one doesnt understand what a word means.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO, have you thought about how tweaking our immigration policies might have a role to play?

It seems a better move than pretending butter knives are weapons.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:

to say they've removed 270 weapons from the province does little to make me feel safer ,

Were you nervous before hand? Feel unsafe?
Quote:
when not 1 criminal who wants to acquire a gun or 1 person actually responsible for breaking into the homes of legal gun owners has been arrested and charged because of this amnesty

No connection there at all, not sure whats on your mind.
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
RCO wrote:

to say they've removed 270 weapons from the province does little to make me feel safer ,

Were you nervous before hand? Feel unsafe?
Quote:
when not 1 criminal who wants to acquire a gun or 1 person actually responsible for breaking into the homes of legal gun owners has been arrested and charged because of this amnesty

No connection there at all, not sure whats on your mind.




my point was the gun amnesty did not target the criminals , who are actually the ones breaking the law


look at Huntington WV as an example of a police targeted raid on the criminals , they actually removed many of the criminals who were plaguing the community with violence


the gun amnesty did not target the criminals but rather low risk guns owned by people who have not committed any crime other than possibly not having a gun license or letting it expire
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
an interesting story I saw on the internet today was that of Huntington West Virginia , a small city of 48,000 that most people have likely never even heard of
which is why its so shocking that in 2017 it had the 3rd highest per capita murder rate in the entire US behind only St Louis and Baltimore , there was around 22 murders in the city in 2017

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/12/18/1725521/-Huntington-WV-America-s-Heroin-Capitol-Moves-up-to-3-position-in-murder-rate-this-year

what possibly happened here ? its said the city is the centre of the Heroin epidemic but how did so much Heroin come to West Virginia of all places to begin with ? and why did the situation turn so deadly and violent in this small city ?


the answer seems to be that big city gangs and criminals moved in ,

The criminals generally come after not before.

WV has the highest consumption of pain killers in the nation. Workers comp pays for drugs, not physical therapy.
Unwilling State officials to re-hab but happy to incarcerate.
General sense of hopelessness.

And that becomes ripe pickings for a criminal gang.
http://wvpublic.org/post/front.....-addiction
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
RCO, have you thought about how tweaking our immigration policies might have a role to play?

It seems a better move than pretending butter knives are weapons.



I don't know most of the criminals here are home grown in the sense , there not coming from other countries although that is more of an issue in places like Toronto or Edmonton


but the OPP would be better served targeting criminals than worrying about old hunting rifles being stored in someones basement


we had a well publicised stabbing downtown last summer , I assumed it involved a knife as the victim had been stabbed several times , although it was revealed later on the weapon was actually a screw driver , although I can't find the article online which mentions that fact ,

so it only highlights the fact desperate criminals will use anything and that simply removing some potential options does nothing to reduce the number of criminals on the streets
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are speaking of murderers here, not mere criminals. In our courts, a guy can be criminalized for stealing a kiss. Friggin' near everybody is a criminal, they just haven't caught most of them.

But murderers are different. That's not just another crime, like winking at a woman on the bus ...

The Toronto police's most wanted current criminals are:
Ubaid Said, wanted for two murders,
Akil Whyte, wanted for murder,
Shaquan MacLean, for murder,
Alexander Fountain, for murder,
Michael Gibson, for murder,
Ibrahim Mohammad, for murder,
and finally, Ton Ngo, for murder ... none of them are the kind of Canadians that grow up in small-town Canada.

There are a number of cold cases and the same general pattern holds.

Just saying ... maybe the Immigration people might think we have enough of certain kinds of people ... these are murderers who have another country to run to. What is their immigration status? Wouldn't it be worth finding out?

It's not that we're not capable of horrible murders, but they generally aren't out of an attempt to collect a debt. Currently, Toronto has charged a homosexual who put strangers through his wood chipper but he was caught before the composting was complete. Weird sexual kicks is our thing. The his-and-hers serial killers, the Bernardos, for example. How about Pickton? Even Guy Paul Morin was the victim of another person -- who, incidentally is still free -- who committed a sex crime. LA has nothing on Canada!

But still, there would be eight more people alive if these guys had been stopped at the border. In Toronto alone ... imagine if we included Mississauga?
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Unearthed Government Data: Defensive Firearm Uses Far More Frequent Than Gun Control Advocates Claim
Guy Benson Guy Benson |Posted: Apr 23, 2018 2:30 PM

Unearthed Government Data: Defensive Firearm Uses Far More Frequent Than Gun Control Advocates Claim

We're in the middle of another gun control debate due to the Waffle House shooting (more on that in a moment), so it seems like a reasonable time to delve into one of the perennial disputes within that larger policy conversation. Even though it has no bearing on the core question of constitutionality, there are widely disparate views on the frequency of Americans using firearms in self-defense, as opposed to crimes. Anti-gun forces say instances of defensive gun use are relatively low, whereas pro-gun advocates argue the opposite. As we've explored previously, some of the low-ball estimates -- like this one (100,000 per year), recently amplified by NPR -- are based on very narrow definitions of what "counts" as a self-defense incident. At the other end of the spectrum, a researcher at Florida State named Gary Kleck produced a study that found that up to well over two million such episodes occur annually in the United States. His findings have been pilloried by left-leaning critics who basically dismiss his work product as academic-tinged propaganda.

Whose numbers are more accurate? To answer that question, let's first recall that a 2013 Obama administration-commissioned review, executed in partnership with the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), pegged the relevant number at between half-a-million and three million:

Quote:
"Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals," says the report, which was completed in June and ignored in the mainstream press. The study, which was farmed out by the CDC to the Institute of Medicine and National Research Council, also revealed that while there were "about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008," the estimated number of defensive uses of guns ranges "from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year."


That's a pretty wide spectrum, but it's worth noting that Kleck's supposedly outlandish estimate falls within it, whereas lower estimates (frequently touted by the media) do not. Meanwhile, Kleck has discovered some eye-opening new data -- or rather, eye-opening old data. He's found research conducted by the CDC pertaining to this very controversy back in the 1990's, which the CDC never decided to publish. Via Reason:

Quote:
Now Kleck has unearthed some lost CDC survey data on the question. The CDC essentially confirmed Kleck's results. But Kleck didn't know about that until now, because the CDC never reported what it found. Kleck's new paper—"What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses?"**—finds that the agency had asked about DGUs in its Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System in 1996, 1997, and 1998. Those polls, Kleck writes, "are high-quality telephone surveys of enormous probability samples of U.S. adults, asking about a wide range of health-related topics. Those that addressed DGU asked more people about this topic than any other surveys conducted before or since. For example, the 1996 survey asked the DGU question of 5,484 people. The next-largest number questioned about DGU was 4,977 by Kleck and Gertz (1995), and sample sizes were much smaller in all the rest of surveys on the topic (Kleck 2001)."


After poring over the CDC data, here is Kleck's bottom-line conclusion:

Quote:
The final adjusted prevalence of 1.24% therefore implies that in an average year during 1996–1998, 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense. This estimate, based on an enormous sample of 12,870 cases (unweighted) in a nationally representative sample, strongly confirms the 2.5 million past-12-months estimate obtained Kleck and Gertz (1995)....CDC's results, then, imply that guns were used defensively by victims about 3.6 times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.

[....]
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/04/23/defensive-gun-uses-study-n2473447?utm_source=thdailypm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl_pm&newsletterad=


What they are getting at is that allowing people to carry concealed weapons reduces violent crime much more than it results in killngs. How about that?
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Govt Stats: UK Knife Crime Highest on Record
by LIAM DEACON26 Apr 2018513

There has been a 22 per cent surge in knife crime and an 11 per cent increase in gun crime, with offences “disproportionately concentrated in London” and other cities, the Office of National Statistics (ONS) has said. [emphasis added]

The numbers mean knife crime is at its highest ever recorded level, and murders were also up by nine per cent in England and Wales, with a total of 653 recorded by police across last year.

Police recorded 39,598 offences involving a knife or sharp instrument in the year up to December 2017 – up from 32,468 in the previous 12 months – and 6,604 firearms crimes recorded over the same period.

The ONS excludes terror attacks in London and Manchester and the 1989 Hillsborough disaster in their homicide figures.

There was also 438,971 recorded burglary offences, a 9 per cent rise in a year, as well as a rise in robbery (up by 33 per cent), and vehicle-related theft (16 per cent).

London Mayor Sadiq Khan was quick to jump on the statistics to argue the crime wave was not his responsibility, but a national problem for the government.

“These statistics show once again that crime, and violent crime in particular, is rising at an unacceptably high rate across the whole of England and Wales, including London,” he told Sky News.

“This is clearly a national problem that requires national solutions from the government.”

However, ONS data from January showed that knife crime was up by 38 per cent in London compared to 21 per cent nationwide.

The London mayor has said he “can not solve knife crime by myself” when pressed on the issue in the London Assembly.

Furthermore, Metropolitan Police (Met) data also released this Thursday, showed homicide in the capital is up by a massive 44 per cent in the year up until March – many times the national rise over a similar period.

Killings rose from 109 to 157, but the Met’s stats do include the 14 people killed in the three terror attacks. Even without the terror attack, the rise is 31 per cent, more than three times the national rise over a similar period.

Overall, according to the Met, crime in the capital was up by 6.4 per cent – from 777,458 to 827,225 offences – with knife crime offences up 21 per cent. Gun crime, however, was reportedly down 4.6 per cent.

Assistant Commissioner Martin Hewitt, responsible for Territorial Policing, said: “The Met continues to experience a very busy and challenging time against the backdrop of significant reductions in resources. I am very concerned about the rise in crime in the capital, particularly murder, violent crime and knife crime.”
http://www.breitbart.com/londo.....st-record/


In Britain, "gun crime" is up -- presumably this includes robberies -- even though the UK has dracoian gun control. How can that be? TC will tell us how this could happen ... if he knows!
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( now the debate has turned to assault rifles , but I'm confused and don't think you can legally buy a semi automatic assault style rifle currently even if you have a gun license , my understanding is high capacity magazines were banned years ago and you'd need a prohibited class gun license to own one which no one can get , so whatever guns they want banned aren't true assault rifles and not like the ones they have in the US which can have high capacity magazines and fire many rounds quickly )



Goodale says he’d consider ban on assault rifles

By Tim Naumetz. Published on May 8, 2018 1:50pm


Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Ralph Goodale says he's open to a ban on assault weapons but not in Bill C-71. iPolitics/Matthew Usherwood


Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale says he’s ready to consider demands from victims of a Quebec gun massacre for a ban on assault weapons in Canada.

Goodale’s statement Tuesday was in response to requests from families and victims of the mass shooting last year that killed six worshippers in a Quebec City mosque.

“We would have to examine from a technical, legal point of view here, what specifically is being proposed,” Goodale said after defending the government’s latest gun-control legislation, Bill C-71, at a meeting of the Commons Public Safety Committee.

“I don’t reject anything out of hand,” Goodale told reporters who asked him about the request from the Quebec City families. The victims and families wrote Prime Minister Justin Trudeau directly this week expressing disappointment that assault weapons were not included in the bill.

“It is Parliament’s prerogative to change the categories, if Parliament feels that that is appropriate,” Goodale said.

He said it is too late to add such a major change to laws governing prohibited or restricted firearms to the new legislation, which deals only with control and safety measures over non-restricted rifles and shotguns.

“I don’t feel it would be practically positive to move in that direction in the context of C-71,” Goodale said.

“If there is a serious, credible proposal we will examine it in the interest of public safety,” Goodale said. “I don’t reject anything out of hand,” he said.

More than 75 people signed the letter to Trudeau that noted the legislation does not assault rifles like the one like the converted Czech military rifle reportedly used by the Quebec shooter.

Alexandre Bissonnette, 28, pleaded guilty in March to six charges of first-degree murder and six charges of attempted murder.

The prime minister also commented on the request from the Quebec City victims by saying police, not politicians, should be the ones to determine the restrictions placed on specific kinds of guns.

Trudeau touts provisions of his government’s firearms bill that would restore the authority of RCMP experts to classify firearms without political influence, repealing cabinet’s authority to overrule Mountie determinations.

In a letter to Trudeau, more than 75 people express disappointment the bill does not ban semi-automatic rifles like the one carried by Bissonnette.

Goodale was grilled in the committee by Conservatives MPs who say the legislation is already too restrictive and an assault on on gun owners.

Two Alberta Conservatives, Medicine Hat MP Glen Motz and Red Deer MP Blaine Calkins, challenged the minister over elements of the bill the Conservatives say will create a new version of the federal long gun registry and argued the legislation does not address gun crime and gang violence.

“Let me be abundantly clear,” said Goodale. “Our objective here is practical improvements in public safety without imposing any kind of intrusive or unreasonable burden on law-abiding Canadian citizens or law-abiding Canadian businesses.”

“This is, I know, an intense and emotional topic and people have strong feelings on various sides of the argument, but if you take a practical run through of the legislation, there is nothing here that is an unreasonable burden on people who are going to follow the law, and a vast majority of Canadians do.”

Motz argued that, while the government says the bill is gang and gun focused, it is not.

“There is no reference to gangs or criminal organizations in this bill whatsoever,” said Motz, who claimed gun theft in Canada is not the main problem.

“We know that for the organized crime groups, especially in Toronto, it’s the straw purchases, you have a somewhat legitimate (licence) owner who comes in and acquires firearms, a large number of firearms, and then sells them to organized crime. We know this happens all the time.

“I am really struggling, sir, to find out where and how you believe this will actually impact positively the gang violence and gun violence that’s going on in this country.

“This legislation does nothing but target, it’s a regulatory bill that does not nothing but target law-abiding gun owners, zero,” said Motz.

Goodale said other separate measures will beef up border surveillance and seizure of smuggled guns from the U.S., increase federal support for guns and gangs task force operations and support programs to address gang recruitment.

“You’re entitled to your perspective and your opinion, but I respectfully disagree,” said Goodale, pointing to provisions that would expand background checks for licence applicants to cover the person’s entire life, not just the previous five-year period under current law.

New requirements for point-of-sale licence validation by the Canadian Firearms Centre, new transportation permit requirements and a requirement for retailers to maintain sales records in case of a criminal investigation also add to public safety and police ability to trace crime-scene guns, Goodale said.

The head of one of Canada’s national gun-owner lobbies, the National Rifle Association, was in the committee room as Goodale defended the bill.

The B.C.-based group has sided with the Conservatives in their claim the mandatory record-keeping of rifle and shotgun sales is in reality a new form of gun registry the Liberals promised not to reinstate.

“One thing the National Firearms Association is going to do is work very, very hard to make sure that any Member of Parliament who supports Bill C-71 is defeated in the next election,” NFA president Sheldon Clare said in interview as he watched the proceedings.

“This bill represents an all-out attack on the Canadian firearms owners, this has nothing whatsoever to do with public safety, there’s nothing in the bill of value,” said Clare, who flew to Ottawa from B.C. to attend.

https://ipolitics.ca/2018/05/08/goodale-says-hed-consider-ban-on-assault-rifles/
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know -- what are "assault rifles"? Are they those that have the (optional) pistol grip? Would an old Lee-Enfield be an assault rifle? It doesn't have a pistol grip -- or at least didn't.
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Does anyone know -- what are "assault rifles"? Are they those that have the (optional) pistol grip? Would an old Lee-Enfield be an assault rifle? It doesn't have a pistol grip -- or at least didn't.




my understanding is that back in the early 90's there was a gun law introuduced ( before the gun registry in 96 ) this law was from Kim Campbell and it banned high capacity magazines that would be used by machine guns or assault rifles and only small capacity magazines are legal in Canada )


so I'm confused as to how anyone could currently own a military style assault rifle with a high capacity magazine ? as its clearly not legal in Canada to begin with

most of the so called " assault rifles we see on tv from the US would not be legal in Canada , be classified as prohibited firearms and even if you had a gun license you couldn't import one into Canada


there is however a very small number of so called " grandfathered " gun owners who are allowed to own certain "prohibited guns " until they pass away and must be destroyed , but its virtually impossible to get a prohibited class gun license , a restricted license allows you to own hand guns and non restricted license is mostly for hunting rifles
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Liberals introuduce new firearms legislation

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