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RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug Ford’s pitch to Ontario voters will cut costs, size of government — but no layoffs


Keeping it simple: Doug Ford says his pitch to Ontario voters will be five main points on things that affect their lives.



Doug Ford, the newly elected leader of the Progresive Conservative party, promises no job losses in his efforts to reduce the size and cost of government.


By Kristin RushowyQueen's Park Bureau

Wed., March 14, 2018




Doug Ford’s pitch to Ontario voters will be simple — no glossy magazine with 147 promises like his predecessor — and the new leader of the Progressive Conservatives predicts his popularity will help the party nab 10 Toronto seats from the Liberals.

Ford’s platform would lower hospital wait times, cut hydro rates, reduce the size and cost of government — but he promises all that will be done through almost $6 billion of to-be-identified “efficiencies,” not job losses.

“Let me be clear: No one is getting laid off,” Ford said during an interview at the Etobicoke head office of his family’s labels business, amid Liberal predictions some 40,000 jobs are at stake.

As for a recent Forum Research poll that found the PCs would win a majority but almost half of those surveyed expressed disapproval of him as leader, he questioned the pollster and the small sample size and said he’s “seen polls that are absolutely opposite I am the only candidate out of anyone on both sides that attracts Liberal and NDP voters, and they know it.


“I know some Liberal insiders and they told me ‘Kathleen Wynne was terrified that you’d win because you’d attract the 416 voters that they’ve held on to for years.’ I proved it out in Scarborough when I helped Raymond Cho” win a byelection in a stunning upset in Scarborough-Rouge River in 2016.

“We are going to win nine to 10 seats in Toronto and we’re going to win 905.”

Ford emerged victorious from the leadership of the PC party last weekend after a tough fight with Christine Elliott, who actually took the popular vote and four more ridings than he did — but his victories were by a much larger margin, giving him the win.

Elliott initially contested the results, but conceded Sunday night after meeting with Ford. It was her third unsuccessful run at the leadership.

“We just talked,” Ford said of their hours-long meeting. “We’ve known each other for years — it’s talking to your friend, saying, ‘Christine, we can do this together. I need your help, I need your expertise, your knowledge. I need you.’

“She agreed, and she’s happy, I’m happy, we’re moving forward and she’s going to play a critical role in our government,” he said, along with other leadership contenders Caroline Mulroney and Tanya Granic Allen.

Ford also said he’s fed up with the drama around Patrick Brown, the former leader who resigned after being accused of alleged sexual misconduct with two young women while a federal MP, and who now faces a number of questions about his dealings while at the helm.

“We just have to move on,” Ford said, adding he has neither spoken with Brown nor decided if he will allow Brown to run under the PC banner. “I’m tired of this Patrick Brown saga. I just want to focus on Kathleen Wynne, and defeat Kathleen Wynne.”

Ford has asked that all nominations be reviewed after a number of complaints of improper processes under Brown, and said there are still about 22 ridings where candidates need to be nominated — including his own nomination in Etobicoke North.

If elected, Ford said he will put the family business, Deco Labels, into a blind trust.

Ford said his platform — which his team is “going at full steam” to finish, given the election is just over two months away — will be fully costed.

“People want five simple points that affect their lives every day … that’s the direction I gave to the policy team. I want to cost it, I want it justified and show me the numbers.”

The platform will also end cap-and-trade, reduce hydro rates and, like all other areas, look at better business practices to bring costs down, he said.

“There are a lot of sole-source deals in there that are officially driving up the hydro costs, and then we are going to get rid of the carbon tax as well,” he said.

On education, administration could be shared and trimmed, and boards could cut costs through shared procurement — as could all government departments, he added.

“All the procurement adds up to a tremendous amount,” he said. “We can drive costs down 15 per cent.”

On the health front, Ford said he’s assembled a team of health professionals — headed by Dr. Rueben Devlin, the former CEO of Humber River Hospital who was at the helm when his brother, Rob Ford, was being treated there for cancer — to look at the issue of improving wait times.

He said he’ll revamp the education curriculum and examine “why our Grade 6 math students haven’t hit the provincial standards, that’s concerning,” he said of a trend that has been of concern around North America.

As he pledged to social conservatives during the leadership campaign, he will repeal the sex-ed curriculum — though he doesn’t think a lot needs to be done.

“It’s not a big, massive change,” he said, adding the main issues are that parents were not consulted, as well as the age-appropriateness of the material.

Ford will be at Queen’s Park on Tuesday to meet with caucus, and then continue to visit candidates and ridings across the province.

He said Ontarians — including Liberal and NDP voters, and disenfranchised PC members — “want a fresh outlook.”


https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/03/14/doug-fords-pitch-to-ontario-voters-will-cut-costs-size-of-government-but-no-layoffs.html
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
“I know some Liberal insiders and they told me ‘Kathleen Wynne was terrified that you’d win because you’d attract the 416 voters that they’ve held on to for years.’ I proved it out in Scarborough when I helped Raymond Cho” win a byelection in a stunning upset in Scarborough-Rouge River in 2016.

“We are going to win nine to 10 seats in Toronto and we’re going to win 905.”


Yep. This is what Conservatives have to realize -- John Tory-like candidates don't have a way to cash in on their polish. To great sections of the urban population, they smell of administration. When one of the Administrators appears before those who are administrated upon, they look on him like a he's a member of a priesthood.

Imagine Andrew Scheer going into a flea market in Rexdale! He would probably be concerned that he'd get dirty. He'd see rastas and veils and even Hindus, amongst a certain kind of white Canadian. What do you think a conversation between these voting members of Canadian society and Andrew Scheer to be like? I can imagine him, in the food court with a megaphone ... "As you may know, Mr Trump has presented some challenges in the trade file..." And, in the silence, one of our native brothers might be heard muttering "Shudda got the poutine."

For Doug Ford, it isn't like that. This guy would be on home field. He would attract a crowd of supporters shouting out to him wherever he went.

The hard part for the political managers to understand that the best leader isn't always the guy they most admire. The John Tory candidate. From what I can see, the distaste for Ford is that he is measured down from Tory on deportment. It's class snobbery. It also an anger that someone from outside the approved circles is now its leader.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:

Yep. This is what Conservatives have to realize -- John Tory-like candidates don't have a way to cash in on their polish. To great sections of the urban population, they smell of administration. When one of the Administrators appears before those who are administrated upon, they look on him like a he's a member of a priesthood.


Sure,
I can buy into this.

The Ontario PCs have gone every other way;
The Heir Apparent, The Liberal, The Fiscal Conservative and all of them ended with an OLP victory, so why not? We don't have a choice and if it works. Great!

Ford to his credit is focusing on inefficiencies in Government;
I think that very few would argue that this or any Government operates at peak efficiency, its an easy conversation to get started.
Toronto Centre





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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ill be blunt Cosmo.

I expect and hold you to a higher standard than this.
Quote:
Ford to his credit is focusing on inefficiencies in Government;
I think that very few would argue that this or any Government operates at peak efficiency, its an easy conversation to get started.

Its a canard that has been proven to be false overall , witness KPMG and the City of Toronto.

Inefficiencies are firing people/layoffs/retirements.

Did Ford and his Bro find any? Nope .

DId they save money?

Not really although there were minor savings but most of the numbers spouted were not true in any way shape or form. Most savings were offsetted by user fees...user fees hit the poorest hardest.


His numbers (Ford) just dont add up in any way you cut it.

And that interview he gave was horrendous and a very poor start.
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ontario Tories say Brown ineligible to run in riding for spring election


National


by The Canadian Press
Posted Mar 15, 2018 9:34 pm EDT
Last Updated Mar 16, 2018 at 12:00 am EDT



Ontario PC Leadership candidate Patrick Brown leaves the Ontario PC Party Head Offices in Toronto on February 20, 2018. Ontario's Progressive Conservatives say former leader Patrick Brown will not be eligible to run in the riding he was nominated in for the province's spring election.The party's provincial nominations committee says in a statement that Brown will not be allowed to run in Barrie-Springwater-Oro-Medonte. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Chris Young




TORONTO – Former Ontario Progressive Conservative leader Patrick Brown will not be eligible to run in the riding he was nominated in for the province’s June 7 election, the party’s provincial nominations committee said late Thursday.

The committee said in a statement that it reached a “unanimous decision” that Brown will not be able to run in Barrie-Springwater-Oro-Medonte.

The announcement comes as Brown, who stepped down as leader in January amid sexual misconduct allegations that he denies, will not be running in the spring election after “much thought.”


“I remain committed to the Conservative movement and to the well-being of my local community,” Brown said in a tweet Thursday night.


“I am confident that Barrie–Springwater–Oro-Medonte will have a PC party candidate that will hit the ground running and work hard on behalf of our constituents. Thank you to the people of Barrie and Simcoe County for your unwavering support over the last 17 years.”

Brown’s resignation plunged the Conservatives into turmoil, forcing the party into a chaotic leadership race and infighting.

Last month, he briefly tried to reclaim his old job hours after being kicked out of the Tory caucus. He then bowed out of the leadership race about a week later, saying his bid was taking a toll on family and friends.

After a turbulent party convention on March 10, the Conservatives selected former Toronto city councillor Doug Ford as Brown’s successor.

Ford said in a statement Thursday night that he was “pleased” by the provincial nominations committee’s decision to bar Brown from running in the central Ontario riding.

“As leader, I am fully focused on the June election and taking the fight to (Premier) Kathleen Wynne,” Ford said. “Together we will ensure that we are in the best position possible to defeat the Wynne Liberals and form a majority government.”

Party president Jag Badwal said the committee also agreed to reopen nominations in three ridings: Brampton North, Mississauga Centre and Newmarket-Aurora.

The committee also set aside the nomination in the riding of Hamilton West-Ancaster-Dundas “as a result of the flawed process,” Badwal said in a statement.

The Ontario Conservatives has been dogged by controversial nomination battles in ridings across the province, including allegations of vote-stuffing in races near Hamilton and Ottawa.

In the riding of Hamilton West-Ancaster-Dundas, police are investigating the PC nomination

http://www.680news.com/2018/03.....-election/
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
Ill be blunt Cosmo.

I expect and hold you to a higher standard than this.
Quote:
Ford to his credit is focusing on inefficiencies in Government;
I think that very few would argue that this or any Government operates at peak efficiency, its an easy conversation to get started.

Its a canard that has been proven to be false overall , witness KPMG and the City of Toronto.


Before I really get into this, I want to better understand your position on the matter so let me ask a question if I may;

The Province has record revenue;
For the 2018 budget they are projecting around 140 billion dollars and will be spending in excess of that (Number TBD);

In 2013 the Province spent 127.6 billion, in 2015 the Province spent 129 billion, and spent 134 billion in 2017.

Essentially the revenue the Province is slated to have in 2018 could have balanced any budget that came prior.

Are you arguing that the budget cannot be balanced because you feel that there is too much essential spending in the budget and therefore cannot be stripped down to under 140 billion dollars?

Or are you arguing simply that it cannot be done without public sector job cuts?
Bugs





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votes: 8

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
Ill be blunt Cosmo.

I expect and hold you to a higher standard than this.
Quote:
Ford to his credit is focusing on inefficiencies in Government;
I think that very few would argue that this or any Government operates at peak efficiency, its an easy conversation to get started.

Its a canard that has been proven to be false overall , witness KPMG and the City of Toronto.

Inefficiencies are firing people/layoffs/retirements.

Did Ford and his Bro find any? Nope .

DId they save money?

Not really although there were minor savings but most of the numbers spouted were not true in any way shape or form. Most savings were offsetted by user fees...user fees hit the poorest hardest.


His numbers (Ford) just dont add up in any way you cut it.

And that interview he gave was horrendous and a very poor start.


Of course, this is Queens Park, not City Hall.

And, of course the sitting government there has, according to the newly down-graded Cosmo ... (all the degradation courtesy of the one upon whom nobody with any sense places any expectations) ... according to that same Cosmo, that government has record revenues and still is still falling further and further into debt.

As usual, TC is ignoring the other choice.

Let's say that Ford is overly enthusiastic about his promises. He's not the first politician to do that. Say it turns out to be less true that he promised. but still ... he makes serious strides towards balancing the budget. Does anybody think this is a reason to vote for the other choice?

Because Doug Ford is going to be the next Premier of the Province of Ontario. Get used to it.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, I didnt mean to come across so harsh as it were. (re-reading it and well...)
cosmostein wrote:



Essentially the revenue the Province is slated to have in 2018 could have balanced any budget that came prior.

True. And we just came off a balanced budget in 2017. This years was to be the same, alas we know it wont be.

We know it will be 1% of GDP .
Quote:

Are you arguing that the budget cannot be balanced because you feel that there is too much essential spending in the budget and therefore cannot be stripped down to under 140 billion dollars?

Or are you arguing simply that it cannot be done without public sector job cuts?

What I am saying is this budget will attempt to correct gaps/lags in healthcare / long term old age care and child care. Penny pinching these areas has stopped....for now.

As Ont economy is by most accounts doing very well right now and projected to be even better this year it is not out of the realm to make the necessary changes right now. (I do think some of this increase could have been less, no doubt about it)

It could be balanced , but as above, areas that have been ignored are not now. To balance it would mean we continue to ignore gaps in health/child/senior care.

Public sector job cuts would work to balance the budget , but it would have to be done
via retirement means vs out right firing. There culling ....and theres slaughtering.

Any wholesale job cuts announcement would mean Ford gets Hudak'ed in June.


I was quite happy when ...oh man we old.... Harris got this province under control. But in retropsect I truly wish some of his idea would have been rejected. Our highways got much much worse , the level of care in and around the highways became pretty damn bad and to me have never recovered. We used to have clean hwy's , no garbage lying around , cut grass. Now..?...not so much

The water issue certainly is not Harris's fault insofar as those in Walkerton dieing, however the cuts all around to some degree led to that disaster.

Anyhow, hope that helps and I look forward to your reply. Got my flamesuit on.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:


Of course, this is Queens Park, not City Hall.

So...failed at a smaller level but being a bigger level will ensure a better outcome? When one had such a bad idea on what the city needs/wants whats to say he will learn and grow?

Quote:
according to the newly down-graded Cosmo ... (

Dont project , doesnt look good.

Nobody was downgraded.

Quote:


Let's say that Ford is overly enthusiastic about his promises. He's not the first politician to do that. Say it turns out to be less true that he promised. but still ... he makes serious strides towards balancing the budget. Does anybody think this is a reason to vote for the other choice?

What cuts does he want to make?

This is a guy who thought closing libraries was a smart choice , slagging M Atwood in the process.
This is a guy who enabled the mayor to smoke crack and drink booze in underground garages. This being a guy who, again, enabled a mayor to work drunk half the time and be surrounded by such lovely criminals as Lissi et al.
Hes the one , I am sure you dont know any of this, but he said anyone who thinks there is a video of Rob smoking crack is a liar !
Rob on drugs? Doug says he had no idea... LOL ! No idea !
Quote:

Because Doug Ford is going to be the next Premier of the Province of Ontario. Get used to it.

He may be .

But since he is his own worst enemy and his penchant to disregard most women comes out tellingly , perhaps the electorate will decide to stay with the devil we know.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TC, this is just one of the things I don't get about you. You raise all these complex questions as if that disqualified the beast that is now the heir apparent to the Premiership of the Province.

But who else (of the other leaders) have you put these questions to?

At least Ford is talking about the budget. None of the others were or are. Just platitudes or lies. (If Wynne admits to failing to balance the budget, it's only because the truth can't be hidden.)

These are good questions, but they follow the decision to balance the budget. Don't tell me it can't be done. Toronto is a black hole into which money flows and seens to never comes out. Provincially, we can't even trust the figures that our rulers have given the public. But can they get 4% out of total government expenditures? Are you so sure that this is impossible?
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
TC, this is just one of the things I don't get about you. You raise all these complex questions as if that disqualified the beast that is now the heir apparent to the Premiership of the Province.

But who else (of the other leaders) have you put these questions to?

There is only one other. Wynne. I have my answers.
Quote:

At least Ford is talking about the budget.


Please tell me when. As of Tuesday , nothing.

The Globe thinks much the same way.

Quote:
The most unsettling aspect of the interview was his refusal to provide details about how he would govern.

Asked about his pledge to balance the budget without cutting any public-service jobs, Mr. Ford vowed to find unnamed “efficiencies,” said it would be “simple” to do, and repeated his empty slogan, “Just watch me.”

Pressed to give examples of where he would find billions in efficiencies, Mr. Ford offered foolscap paper and pencils. Yes, his point was that a PC government would look for savings everywhere, not that he would literally save billions on stationery. But the fact remains that Mr. Ford has refused to say where he will find the “efficiencies” that necessarily make up a key part of his balanced-budget promise.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-globe-editorial-doug-ford-is-off-to-a-bad-start-as-pc-leader/

Quote:

None of the others were or are.

Again, there is only one other, and she is coming off a balanced budget year.

She(her party) put the budget out there so I dont think anyone can say she isnt talking.
Quote:

These are good questions, but they follow the decision to balance the budget. Don't tell me it can't be done.

It can.

If we choose to deny what is needed in health/senior /child care for instance.
Quote:
Toronto is a black hole into which money flows and seens to never comes out.

See? I have no patience for bullshit and lies.
The City, by law, has to balance the budget.

What black hole?
Quote:
Provincially, we can't even trust the figures that our rulers have given the public. But can they get 4% out of total government expenditures? Are you so sure that this is impossible?


ITs not impossible , again, if we ignore that which we should not.

We are growing, the country is expected to do very well this year (read - ONT) and the time has come to address certain issues.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doug interview was a real eye opener.

One would think, after the debacle that was City council, idiot as Mayor and his enabling big brother pushing him along, the City was a mess .
DOug did horribly as a councilman.

He would vote against inititatives that helped the poor , all the while prior saying they need help.
He was rarely in council.

Now he is talking about foolscap and pencils ( yes, but figuratively) Why?

Because he has no clue.
He wants to cap the min wage where it is. (No savings there)

He wants to find $8B of inefficiencies when he couldnt find any worth discussing when at City of Toronto , proven by KPMG .

Any how...
Quote:
For all of Doug Ford’s political career, the Toronto businessman has spouted simplistic slogans, personally attacked those he disagrees with, and played loose with the facts.

Still, after a relatively civil Progressive Conservative leadership contest, there was reason to hope that becoming Ontario’s premier-in-waiting would mellow Mr. Ford and instill in him a sense of seriousness. After all, he stands to govern a province that is home to more than a third of Canada’s population, and to manage a budget of nearly $150-billion.

On the evidence of his first week as PC leader, that hope is misplaced. Instead of adapting to his new role, Mr. Ford has been his blustering, aggressive, ill-informed self. That should be troubling for voters seeking credible alternatives to Kathleen Wynne’s unpopular Liberal government.


Throw in the fact that there are plenty of old timer PC'ers who loathe this lout and will not work for him spells trouble.
Elliot was a family friend but she sure took her time (for good reason) to not offer congrats . Think they are friends any longer? Nope. (prob means squat now tho)

Quote:
Exhibit A was a radio interview with the CBC he gave on Tuesday. Some of his fans have already pronounced it a brilliant success, because they like that Mr. Ford takes the gloves off with reporters. But from where we sit, it exhibited many of Mr. Ford’s worst tendencies.

Take his approach with the interviewer. She asked Mr. Ford straightforward questions about his plans for running the province. Instead of providing details, Mr. Ford tried to focus attention on his questioner, asking her how she would cut spending and then pronouncing her “unable” to answer. He also nonsensically boasted of having knocked on thousands more doors than her.

This is a common tactic of populists and no doubt played well with Mr. Ford’s base. It’s also ridiculous and beneath a serious politician. Mr. Ford is the one running for office. He shouldn’t taunt journalists because they ask questions that make him uncomfortable. It’s just a form of passing the buck.

Then again, you can see why he wanted nothing to do with the buck. The most unsettling aspect of the interview was his refusal to provide details about how he would govern.

Asked about his pledge to balance the budget without cutting any public-service jobs, Mr. Ford vowed to find unnamed “efficiencies,” said it would be “simple” to do, and repeated his empty slogan, “Just watch me.”

Pressed to give examples of where he would find billions in efficiencies, Mr. Ford offered foolscap paper and pencils. Yes, his point was that a PC government would look for savings everywhere, not that he would literally save billions on stationery. But the fact remains that Mr. Ford has refused to say where he will find the “efficiencies” that necessarily make up a key part of his balanced-budget promise
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-globe-editorial-doug-ford-is-off-to-a-bad-start-as-pc-leader/
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
First off, I didnt mean to come across so harsh as it were. (re-reading it and well...)
cosmostein wrote:



Essentially the revenue the Province is slated to have in 2018 could have balanced any budget that came prior.

True. And we just came off a balanced budget in 2017. This years was to be the same, alas we know it wont be.

We know it will be 1% of GDP .
Quote:

Are you arguing that the budget cannot be balanced because you feel that there is too much essential spending in the budget and therefore cannot be stripped down to under 140 billion dollars?

Or are you arguing simply that it cannot be done without public sector job cuts?

What I am saying is this budget will attempt to correct gaps/lags in healthcare / long term old age care and child care. Penny pinching these areas has stopped....for now.

As Ont economy is by most accounts doing very well right now and projected to be even better this year it is not out of the realm to make the necessary changes right now. (I do think some of this increase could have been less, no doubt about it)

It could be balanced , but as above, areas that have been ignored are not now. To balance it would mean we continue to ignore gaps in health/child/senior care.

Public sector job cuts would work to balance the budget , but it would have to be done
via retirement means vs out right firing. There culling ....and theres slaughtering.

Any wholesale job cuts announcement would mean Ford gets Hudak'ed in June.

I was quite happy when ...oh man we old.... Harris got this province under control. But in retropsect I truly wish some of his idea would have been rejected. Our highways got much much worse , the level of care in and around the highways became pretty damn bad and to me have never recovered. We used to have clean hwy's , no garbage lying around , cut grass. Now..?...not so much

The water issue certainly is not Harris's fault insofar as those in Walkerton dieing, however the cuts all around to some degree led to that disaster.

Anyhow, hope that helps and I look forward to your reply. Got my flamesuit on.


Not harsh at all;

I shouldn't be making blanket statements without support to begin with otherwise we risk this becoming an echo chamber.

LOL, no need for the flamesuit.
At worst, I will understand your position better and you mine.

I think that comparing Ontario in the early to mid 90s to now is challenging.

You had a province coming off a recession which had invested billions into long term infrastructure programs they were now tied to (as many had shovels in the ground) along with decreased revenue because unemployment between 1991 and 1997 was between 8.4% and 10.8% along with all of the costs being downloaded from the Feds to try and balance their books.

Rae and Harris were in a vastly different economic reality than Wynne.

In terms of 2018 and today's reality and the 141.7 billion dollars in projected revenue;

Let me take a moment to agree with you entirely on the importance of Healthcare and the need continue to improve that. ( I am going to use the 2017 budget as its the most recent one for the cost of expenses)

https://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/budget/ontariobudgets/2017/ch6b.html#c6-3

That's 53.8 billion dollars that we shouldn't touch if anything we should increase it but ultimately while Healthcare is the sacred cow its only 38.1% of spending.

Then lets leave our police officers (4.7 billion or 3.3%) and our elementary and secondary teachers alone (26.7 billion or 18.8%).

So we are at 85.2 Billion assuring we don't touch job one or resource one from our teachers, doctors, nurses, and the OPP and Justice Sector.

Lets go a step further, I agree the roads during in the 1990s were the shits;
So lets not touch the entire Provincial Roadways budget of 2.1 billion dollars and because you are in Toronto lets not even think about canceling any of the infrastructure commitments to the city (and the surrounding regions) of 3.8 billion

Now we are at 91.1 billion dollars on the back of 141.7 billion dollars of projected revenue;

It would be unfair of me not to include the interest on our 300 billion dollar debt which is a whopping 11.6 billion dollars.

Now we are parked at 102.7 billion dollars.

I would argue that despite the fact that the Ontario Liberals will argue the pain will come on the backs of teachers, nurses, and cops if Ford wants to reduce spending the reality is its not the 102.7 billion I take issue with.

Lets even give back the entire Social Service Sector back (Which does some great work) 16.9 billion dollars.

Its the other approx 23ish billion dollars that I think we could at least discuss;

Its the 19.2 billion the Province dubs "Other Programs" which includes a lot of good works but also includes a tremendous amount of pork barrel spending to keep fortress 905 happy.

There is certainly some discretionary spending (especially on infrastructure) that could be delayed that would bring us to balance immediately

The killer here is we pay 1 (one) billion dollars of interest every year for every 25.2 billion we are in debt (300 billion = 11.8 billion a year in interest)

A little but of scaling back or even just indexing spending to inflation while revenue grows (ideally) allows us to start paying down the debt which gives us more money in the coffers.

All I want is some preparation for if and when the economy slows or if interest continues to rise.

That's all.

But lets not even talk about "cuts" or spending reductions for a moment.
I don't want the budget slashed to half of the 140ish billion we are spending. I would be happy to start if we just reduced it to last years (2017) spending levels

For all the hoopla surrounding the "eight billion" in inefficiencies;

In reality, on the back of 141.7 billion dollars of revenue, if you simply took the 2017 Liberal Budget verbatim and made no changes we just found ourselves a 7.7 billion dollar surplus, toss all of that at the Debt and you just saved around 0.31 billion in interest.

I just don't see any reason with this revenue stream that we can't keep the stuff that is critical to you and balance the books.


Last edited by cosmostein on Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I , as expected, am not dissapointed by your response. Thank you.
Quote:
For all the hoopla surrounding the "eight billion" in inefficiencies;

In reality, on the back of 141.7 billion dollars of revenue, if you simply took the 2017 Liberal Budget verbatim and made no changes we just found ourselves a 7.7 billion dollar surplus, toss all of that at the Debt and you just saved around 0.31 billion in interest.

I just don't see any reason with this revenue stream that we can't keep the stuff that is critical to you and balance the books


I have to agree with all of this but I am stuck on what then constitutes the gravy that Ford is talking about.

Here you are, not a politician canvassing (or ARE you ? wink wink), numbers and data at hand to discuss , and the guy who is the party head cannot name a single thing he would do , or a single number to throw out there.

Except bullshit and lies. 60,000 jobs lost -nope
Saved billions for TO-nope
Condescending to an interviewer who by all measures was polite and not coming from any angle.

So , how can the party let this guy in when by many accounts no one wants him, no one wants to work with him (old guard granted) he doesnt know squat ** about a thing when asked?

And yet, here you are making sense and laying it out. If any other candidate had won, and same laid it all out like this, I would be saying there is the new Premier.

Instead , and full admittance I cannot stand Ford for reasons that go back a long way (neighbourhood issues) and his reluctance to indulge in nothing but insults and slogans. Bully pulpit 24-7 .

So...why dont you run? (next time) Id vote for you .

**- yes, his platform is not yet out , but one would think he'd have some ideas by now, otherwise refuse the interview. Duh !
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops ... where did TC''s argument go?

But, in all seriousness, what is this but showing the possibility? In my experience, it isn't fair to expect politicians -- particularly when they don't even have a seat -- to come up with detailed plans to squeeze the fat out of the system. Why would he say that, anyway, right before an election?

The role of the Premier is to get teams of experts from the civil service to do what he wants to them to do, in terms of policy. It isn't to set up budgets and so on.

Does anyone believe that in almost any organization as big as the Province of Ontario, Inc, can't squeeze 4% out of its budget? Or that, even if the attempt missed its mark, it wouldn't be a good thing?

Quote:
... The debt ... is projected to be $312 billion this year[2018], or roughly $22,000 for every Ontarian. It is projected to grow to $336 billion in 2019-2020.

The province’s net debt has tripled since the provincial Liberals came to power.[Emphasis added] In the last budget presented by Ontario’s Progressive Conservatives before the 2003 election, the debt was about $110 billion.

The overall size of the budget, meanwhile, has roughly doubled – from $71 billion in 2003 to $141 billion this year. {Emphasis added]

Interest on debt is the fourth largest spending area, at $11.6 billion. It is also projected to be the fastest-growing spending area, at an average 3.6 per cent a year from 2015 to 2020, compared to an annual 3.3-per-cent increase in health and 2.8 per cent in education.
https://globalnews.ca/news/3410101/ontario-budget-2017-debt/


What I find objectionable is the endlessly negative attitude that, when it comes down to it, ends up with baseless charges of Rob Ford's opponents, people whose fat quite possibly was being squeezed. It isn't just TC. These comments have nothing to do with the needs of the province.

It's the kind of snobbery that comes from those who have little to be snobbish about. The worst thing is it stands in the way of a coherent discussion. A plausible way to achieve goals is buried under an avalanche of invective.

Why not start from what the interests of the province are, and figure out what serves those interests best? Why not, then, look for people with qualifications that fit the requirements of the moment.

But it isn't that, is it? No, the political managers (of all parties) prefer to interact with the public through polls. They look to slice off small bits of the total population and pull their support through some 'benefit'or other appeals.

That may work for awhile, while the goodies are being passed out and before the bill comes in. But the bill is coming in, and we're still putting the interest on the tab.

All it will take to impoverish our government is for interest rates to, once again, be set by the market. Then, when the debt is being rolled over, 1% and 2% bonds will be replaced by 4% and 5% (and higher) bonds. Suddenly interest charges will be pinching education and healthcare.

All most people know is that we got rid of Mike Harris, and the spending started, and grew and grew until it has reached monstrous proportions. Canada's federal debt is also huge -- $1.3 trillion! It works out to about $37,000 per capita to add to the $22,000 for a total o $59,000 per capita. That means that the average family of four in Canada has to pay the interest on approximately $240,000 in debt if it were allocated per capita. In Ontario, the debt service charges were $11.6 billion, more than we spend on welfare! Again, if it were paid on a per capita basis, it comes to $800 each. Add that to the carrying costs, per capita, of the federal debt -- another $700+ -- and you can see that the first $1,500 taxes, per capita go to paying the interest on the national debt.

But individuals don't pay. In a sense, families pay. In that case, the average family of four has $6000 spent in taxes annually on their behalf paying the interest on the debt.

That's how impactful this is. And the reality of this is kept out of the public consciousness, despite our expensive education system. The price they pay is the other benefits they could receive if the government wasn't losing so much revenue to interest payments.

This is the problem with partisan rancor. Insults and unproven allegations only serve to clog up the discussion. It only detracts from the common interest. Doug Ford is now the man ... and he probably was the best choice, and he's probably the best choice as the next Premier of the Province of Ontario. Not the best person in Ontario for the job, but it doesn't matter. He's in the position to lead the new gang in, and that's all that counts.

Will he be perfect? What do you think?
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