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Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh... Ford? Really?

You are aright, the PC's have a strange way of harming themselves.

The headlines are right, they all remember the complete debacle that was the Fords time served for Toronto. And all of it was accomplished by Dougs lies. '

Well..... cannot in all honesty vote for Ford, same with the Dippers, so I guess Wynne.......
<shudder> gets another vote.

Elliot? Not a problem at all, Mulroney probably although I would have wnated to hear her plan.
<sigh>

Dont be surprised if Wynne is back in come June.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing that explains Rob Ford is George Smitherman.

The thing that will make Doug Ford the Premier of Ontario is Kathleen Wynne. One underestimates her skills with peril.

The difference is that now the social conservatives won't be stifled, and there will be some opposition to the carbon tax, both of which are steps forward for the province. Ford could do better on the stump than Patrick Brown if he can mobilize the opposition to both of these policies.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
So upon review;

Elliott got more votes (32,202) than Ford (30,041) and seemingly won more ridings than Ford but as a result of the system that allowed each riding to have a maximum of 100 points regardless of voters or points equal to the total votes cast if less than 100 the win was given to Ford (6,202 Points Vs. 6,049)

Basically Christine Elliott was "Bernier-ed" to a greater degree.


I agree. This weighting of the votes stinks. The other part that stinks is the preferental ballot. I have said it before, and I will say it again -- this cuts out the "brokering" that is part-and-parcel of representative government. When brokering happens, the context changes as candidates drop out. When a delegate's favourite is gone, (s)he's free to trade off their vote for support for someone else. The decision may hinge on an impulse, but it means a lot of promises are being made in return for support. This is what is cut out of the process, and while it may be kind of ugly, it's democracy in action.

This produces a set of important relationships in the base. It integrates that group, and makes it have more cohesion around their goals. I am talking sociological terminology, but trust me, it's a real thing. It's the difference in being a bunch of people at the mall -- each an atomized individual -- and a group with an internal economy of favours for support, and where there's an element of trust.

This is the part of politics that the Bay Street denizens are oblivious to.

It isn't that any of the leaders the process are without qualities to admire. But it is also a question of changing the course of a whole government in a particular political and ecnomic context. You know how I wish it were with Scheer

This is the thing -- too many years of the feckless Trudeau and all the leeches and apparchks that are hanging onto him, like zebra mussels. He will take the whole country down the road that the same gang took Ontario down.
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
Ugh... Ford? Really?

You are aright, the PC's have a strange way of harming themselves.

The headlines are right, they all remember the complete debacle that was the Fords time served for Toronto. And all of it was accomplished by Dougs lies. '

Well..... cannot in all honesty vote for Ford, same with the Dippers, so I guess Wynne.......
<shudder> gets another vote.

Elliot? Not a problem at all, Mulroney probably although I would have wnated to hear her plan.
<sigh>

Dont be surprised if Wynne is back in come June.



the problem for wynne is she's now in 3rd place according to some polls and how often does a political party go from 3rd to first ? not really that often and considering her low approval numbers its made even more difficult

the election for the liberals could soon be a lost cause and about saving whatever seats are still winnable so a new leader can try and pick up the pieces later on


and the idea of the liberals in 3rd place is not crazy , in the Sault Ste Marie and Niagara West Glanbrook by elections liberal candidates came in 3rd


although with Doug Ford as leader I suspect some urban downtown ridings will be retained by the liberals and ndp more easily , places like downtown Ottawa and downtown Toronto , ford's support in Toronto in is places like etobicoke and scarborough but not in the downtown core
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
The thing that explains Rob Ford is George Smitherman.

The thing that will make Doug Ford the Premier of Ontario is Kathleen Wynne. One underestimates her skills with peril.

The difference is that now the social conservatives won't be stifled, and there will be some opposition to the carbon tax, both of which are steps forward for the province. Ford could do better on the stump than Patrick Brown if he can mobilize the opposition to both of these policies.



ford should be able to do an ok job as leader , he must realise that although he won the leadership with some help from right of centre voters

come the general election this group isn't a big % of the electorate , the party will need a more mainstream message and policy to go with it

provincial elections in Ontario have typically been decided by the moderate swing voters who mostly live in the suburbs around Toronto and such
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick Brown likely out as candidate under Doug Ford, Ontario PC sources say

Brown has said he will run in the Barrie riding again – and currently has no challenger for it. But Ford’s team is worried that the former leader would be a ‘distraction’



Tom Blackwell
Tom Blackwell



March 12, 2018
9:01 PM EDT

Filed under
Canadian Politics



Whether he bows out on his own or is forced to do it, Patrick Brown will almost certainly not be running as a Ontario Progressive Conservative candidate under new leader Doug Ford, Tory sources said Monday.

Meanwhile, Ford’s team is reviewing several other ridings where nomination results are in dispute, and may overturn some of them, sources said.

If Brown does not run, it would mark the final chapter in his short, tumultuous career as a provincial PC legislator.

He resigned as leader in late January, then briefly competed in the race to fill his old job. He had already been nominated in Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte riding, but interim leader Vic Fedeli stripped him of the candidacy last month.

Brown has said he will vie for the Tory nod there again – and currently has no challenger for it.

But Ford’s team is worried that the former leader would be a “distraction” in the June 7 election, drawing unwanted media attention and opposition attacks.

“It would keep going because it’s newsworthy and there are political points in it,” said a source in Ford’s camp.

For now, the new leader is giving him a chance to step away voluntarily, the source said.

“I can’t imagine in what universe Patrick would think it’s in his interest to run again,” said the advisor. “Most people are saying that Patrick has been kicked enough times that he probably doesn’t want to be kicked any more.”


Doug Ford, the new leader of the Ontario PC Party. Ernest Doroszuk/Postmedia

But if push comes to shove, said another Tory source, Ford will bar Brown from running.

A third Conservative close to the nominations process said the assumption was that none of the four leadership candidates would have let him campaign as one of their candidates.

“I didn’t foresee Brown surviving under any of the choices,” said the official. “They wanted to be nice, because they didn’t want to offend any of his supporters. But he carries way too much baggage.”

Brown himself is vacationing in Florida and could not be reached for comment.

He resigned Jan. 25 over sexual-misconduct allegations he has called false and malicious, and is suing CTV News over the story that first aired the charges.

But complaints later arose about other controversies, mostly around a dozen or so Conservative nomination elections under his administration that ended with allegations of ballot stuffing, voter fraud or other irregularities.

The party has already overturned two of them – in Toronto and Ottawa – but Ford’s team is currently reviewing other nominations.

“Stay tuned, because we’re going to have something to say soonish” on that issue, said the source in the new leader’s group.

Meanwhile, however, many party officials are staying in their current positions, including much of the staff in the opposition leader’s office. Mike Crase, appointed as the party’s interim executive director after Brown resigned, will take over the job permanently.

Only a small percentage of staff and volunteer officials will need to be replaced, the Ford advisor said.

“We’re not looking to instigate any French revolution purging of junior people.”



http://nationalpost.com/news/p.....ources-say
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick Brown was likely going to be "out" regardless of the leader was.

Over the course of the next leaders tenure, lets assume for a moment that Patrick Brown is successful in his suit against CTV (Or he is given a cheque in exchange for no admission of wrongdoing by CTV) and the nomination issues prove to be minor and this background noise associated with the "other shoe" doesn't drop.

Wouldn't it be logical he would have supporters within the party who felt he should be leading?

While I don't agree with not allowing him to run, I certainly understand it.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
The thing that explains Rob Ford is George Smitherman.

The thing that will make Doug Ford the Premier of Ontario is Kathleen Wynne. One underestimates her skills with peril.


I agree with that.

Ford was not at the top of my ballot, but as I have sat back and dealt with my disappointment and re-watched the leadership debates to see any glimmer of hope I was drawn to an interesting comment Ford made;

When asked about the minimum wage he essentially said he would have simply eliminated the Provincial portion of income tax on minimum income earners to increase their revenue rather than effectively passing the buck onto business.

That set enough of a contrast for me

Ford isn't a great option, but Wynne is still a worse option.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I don't get about this -- you know nothing about Caroline Mulroney/Lapham (pick one) and what you know about Mrs Flaherty is that she's a nice person who knows the party well and is a red tory of sorts. But you're only suspicious of one of them?

Ford talks like a truck driver. That's a big part of the impression he gives. What I noticed was that Ford was honed in on the economic issues in a very tough way. It reinforces the 'working class directness' which is part of his personality. He knows what's right and wrong, financially better than most politicians and civil servants. The other two were more platitudinous -- is that a word?

Ford was the best choice. The other part of the Ford brand is that he is "authentic" in a way that the others are not. Brown was too careful to be "authentic".

The down-side? He makes the managerial types uneasy. These are the very people that Brown was trying to placate. The managerial types don't respond to his style and his reliance on 'common sense' about social issues. They consider him unreliable on gender and climate. But the managerial classes are out of step with the public, and besides, they don't care that much. They have no other choice to move to, as a class. Voting for Wynne is like voting for mismanagement and ... messiness.

I think Ford is probably the best of the three to take on Kathleen Wynne in a campaign. The fact that people expect him to misspeak, and the bar is low, is good for Ford.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
This is what I don't get about this -- you know nothing about Caroline Mulroney/Lapham (pick one) and what you know about Mrs Flaherty is that she's a nice person who knows the party well and is a red tory of sorts. But you're only suspicious of one of them?


I would argue in the grand sense of the word we know very little about all three by way of policy, political stance, and leadership style.

There is very little argument to make that any of them differentiated themselves on fiscal policy matters because none of them made many hard commitments to anything of significance over the month they were seeking the job.

In terms of why I am suspicious of one and not the other?
That is pretty simple.

Elliott wasn't involved in politics, wasn't campaigning, and wasn't engaged in the PC sphere at all.

The party holds the quickest leadership campaign in its history and she was able to secure the entry fee, the cost cost to campaign and nearly half the sitting caucus and 30 nominated members to support her almost instantly.

She embodied everything I voted against within the PC hierarchy when I voted for Patrick Brown originally.

Given the disaster this party has been since 2003 onward anything the senior unelected officials within the party wanted was likely something that would have been bad for the Province.

Whereas I simply see Mulroney as an opportunistic who saw a job that no one serious was vying for and opted to go for it. Mulroney was already attracted as a candidate and she fell out of the gate, caucus support was minimal as was candidate support, *if* the party was looking to make room for a new leader she clearly wasn't the anointed one.
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could Kathleen Wynne lose in her own riding? Poll raises the possibility

by Cynthia Mulligan
Posted Mar 13, 2018 2:38 pm EDT
Last Updated Mar 13, 2018 at 8:19 pm EDT


Local
Politics
Provincial


With the province seemingly ready to vote out the Liberal party in the upcoming June election, a Forum Research poll conducted on March 11th, the day after Doug Ford was announced the PC leader, concludes the 416, which is traditionally a Liberal stronghold, could start turning Tory.

Most notably, numbers suggest Kathleen Wynne’s riding in Don Valley West might go blue.

In all, Forum concludes 15 seats may go into PC hands in the 416, there is currently one.

The 15 ridings are:
•Don Valley East
•Don Valley North
•Don Valley West
•Eglinton—Lawrence
•Etobicoke Centre
•Etobicoke—Lakeshore
•Etobicoke North
•Scarborough—Agincourt
•Scarborough Centre
•Scarborough—Guildwood
•Scarborough North
•Scarborough Rouge Park
•Scarborough Southwest
•Willowdale
•York Centre



The 416 hasn’t seen this many Conservative seats since Mike Harris was premier in 1995 and 1999

This spells trouble for the Liberals.



“If they start to lose seats in Toronto the whole province is going poorly for them,” says Forum pollster, Lorne Bozinoff.

“If it’s a battle ground, it’s bad for the Liberals,” he added. “Because they need a battleground outside of Toronto if fighting in Toronto is going to be a tough road to hoe for them.”

A defeat for Kathleen Wynne in her own riding would be humiliating, but Bozinoff cautions not to read too much into the Don Valley West numbers.

He says Wynne’s name recognition is worth ten points and could push her into victory in her riding.

However, if you don’t factor in the premier’s name recognition and high profile the Tories have 47 per cent vs 41 per cent for the Liberals in Don Valley West.

Back in 2014 the Liberals won 57 per cent of the vote in Don Valley West vs 31 per cent for the Tories, which shows how much ground the grits have lost.

Jon Kieran is running against Wynne for the PC party.

Wynne could be facing a major backlash in her riding over the sex ed curriculum.

It is where many protests were held against it at Thorncliff Park public school. Hundreds of children were kept home and parents held their own classes with them in a nearby park.

On Monday, Doug Ford told CityNews that he would win “the biggest majority this province has ever seen.”

Bozinoff says a Tory sweep is possible but adds the fear factor that comes with Doug Ford could actually energize Liberal and NDP voters to rally, and with the election less than three months away anything can happen.


http://toronto.citynews.ca/201.....tion-poll/
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
Patrick Brown was likely going to be "out" regardless of the leader was.

Over the course of the next leaders tenure, lets assume for a moment that Patrick Brown is successful in his suit against CTV (Or he is given a cheque in exchange for no admission of wrongdoing by CTV) and the nomination issues prove to be minor and this background noise associated with the "other shoe" doesn't drop.

Wouldn't it be logical he would have supporters within the party who felt he should be leading?

While I don't agree with not allowing him to run, I certainly understand it.


This video is the result of a real researcher ... she has some info about one of Brown's accusers, the main one ...

Apparently, she is now in graduate school writing a thesis of the political uses of feminism. For her, this must have been an opportunity to test her ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFf_iLGYD4M

There's other stuff as well.

Brown might be trying to get the nomination just so he can be refused and can thus fatten his claim against CTV. His political life has been destroyed, and this would give them some damages that they could quantify.
Bugs





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votes: 8

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
... Bozinoff says a Tory sweep is possible but adds the fear factor that comes with Doug Ford could actually energize Liberal and NDP voters to rally, and with the election less than three months away anything can happen.


Excuse me -- what fear factor have you measured, Mr Pollster?

This is how these mo'fo's distort the news. Ask yourself -- what is the general public most afraid of? It's that Wynne will win the election!

I would say that if his poll projects the PCs winning by a crushing amount -- isn't that what his data shows? -- after this political blow, then it's going to get better later, when the past bit of ugliness is in the past.

If anything, vigour in the Liberal Party is likely to provoke vigour in their opponents.

That's my subjective assessment. The pollster's subjective assessment is that the Ford is on thin ice, and anything could happen despite what the data says.

Who are these people who are afraid of Doug Ford? They are mostly people who would never vote for any Progressive Conservative under any circumstance. And they aren't that afraid. Or their fear is less than visceral -- it's more a worry that Ford is a poor representative of the province than a horror that would drive you away, running and screaming and pulling your hair.

Fear of Doug Ford is probably a media narrative, a figment in the smoke ... if Ford is careful, keeps hammering on the waste in government as the panacea, and only counter-punching on the gender/climate stuff -- counter-punching with common sense, factual stuff -- there's every reason to be optimistic.
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ford plunges into policy: Sex-ed, pot and Brown

Liz Braun


Published:
March 14, 2018


Updated:
March 14, 2018 7:58 AM EDT


Filed Under:

Toronto SUN ›
News ›
Ontario ›


Doug Ford, leader of the PC Party of Ontario, drops by the PC Party offices in Queen's Park in Toronto, Ont. on Monday March 12, 2018. Ernest Doroszuk/Toronto Sun



There’s no dust on Doug Ford.

Just a day after being elected head of Ontario’s PC party, Ford has announced he’ll repeal the Liberal’s sexed curriculum, hand marijuana sales back to the people and make a decision on permitting Patrick Brown to run as the PC candidate in the riding of Simcoe North.

While political pundits are licking their pencils in anticipation of analyzing Ford’s every move, the newly elected leader is already out there working the crowd and winning over voters.

Although Ford has said he won’t make a big deal of the sex-ed curriculum, his promised repeal of that program of study, put in place in 2015 by the Liberals, will mollify social conservatives.


The current sex-ed program as it stands is hardly revolutionary, recognizing as it does both the facts of sex and reproduction – for all people, regardless of orientation – as well as the simple fact that kids have access to a lot of misinformation online.

Parents have always had the right to withdraw their children from the lessons if they have religious or other objections.

But Ford has said he will repeal it, based on parents’objections that they were not consulted or that some of the concepts go against their beliefs or values. Scientia est potentia, we must say.

At the same time, Ford has told MPs he won’t force anyone to vote against his or her conscience; he appears to understand exactly how to keep moving forward without alienating any of his supporters.

On the marijuana front, Ford said Tuesday that he was open to a free market. Asked about his plans for regulation and enforcement once dope is legal, Ford said, “I have been open to a fair market and letting the markets dictate. I don’t like the government controlling anything no matter what it is … I’m going to consult with our caucus … I don’t believe in the government sticking their hands in our lives all the time. I believe in letting the market dictate.”

Many would agree with that sentiment, although more specific plans on the weed front are not yet forthcoming. Perhaps Ford has something in mind along the lines of the British Columbia model, where both private and public stores will be able to sell marijuana once it’s legalized. B.C. will also establish a minimum age for purchase and ensure other health and safety rules are in place. Wholesale distribution will be left to the Liquor Distribution Branch in the province, as they already have a network in place to deal with alcohol distribution.

In Manitoba, where pot will not be sold where alcohol is sold, the model is similar. Private retail stores will sell marijuana, with the Manitoba Liquor & Lotteries Corp. handling distribution.

Exactly how Ontario will handle the details in the legalization of marijuana remains to be seen, but Ford’s free market musings are bound to please those who welcome competition and diversity.


http://torontosun.com/news/pro.....-and-brown
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Quote:
... Bozinoff says a Tory sweep is possible but adds the fear factor that comes with Doug Ford could actually energize Liberal and NDP voters to rally, and with the election less than three months away anything can happen.


Excuse me -- what fear factor have you measured, Mr Pollster?

This is how these mo'fo's distort the news. Ask yourself -- what is the general public most afraid of? It's that Wynne will win the election!

I would say that if his poll projects the PCs winning by a crushing amount -- isn't that what his data shows? -- after this political blow, then it's going to get better later, when the past bit of ugliness is in the past.

If anything, vigour in the Liberal Party is likely to provoke vigour in their opponents.

That's my subjective assessment. The pollster's subjective assessment is that the Ford is on thin ice, and anything could happen despite what the data says.

Who are these people who are afraid of Doug Ford? They are mostly people who would never vote for any Progressive Conservative under any circumstance. And they aren't that afraid. Or their fear is less than visceral -- it's more a worry that Ford is a poor representative of the province than a horror that would drive you away, running and screaming and pulling your hair.

Fear of Doug Ford is probably a media narrative, a figment in the smoke ... if Ford is careful, keeps hammering on the waste in government as the panacea, and only counter-punching on the gender/climate stuff -- counter-punching with common sense, factual stuff -- there's every reason to be optimistic.



the reality is the left in Ontario has had full control of our legislature since 2003 , of course these people are scared of Ford or any tory for that matter , there solid grip on the province is weakening and come June could be no more


but for the general public I doubt there is anything to really worry about , free market pot sales ? which were already happening anyways , increased competition in the booze market which was also already happening , the controversial sex ed curriculum .


nothing ford's talk about since he won the leadership is scary , although he has to keep in mind he represents a caucus of mpp's and candidates and needs there support as well to truly advance any of these issues , he can't advance them on his own
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