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RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( its clear CTV has some explaining to do , why are both women now linked as friends of CTV reporters , why did the CTV story leave out the fact they had talked to witnesses from the party who said the accusations were false ? why did there story not mention the 2nd women had been friends with brown for years with no issues until now ? )


Brown says he can disprove sexual misconduct allegations against him



The Canadian Press
Published Sunday, February 11, 2018 2:29PM EST
Last Updated Sunday, February 11, 2018 2:31PM EST


TORONTO - Patrick Brown says he can disprove allegations of sexual misconduct that led to his abrupt resignation as leader of Ontario's Progressive Conservative party last month.

In a Facebook post published on Sunday, Brown says he has been investigating the allegations reported by CTV News and says specific details of the accusations from two unnamed women, which date back to when he was a federal MP, contain discrepancies that prove their accounts are false.

Brown also alleges both of the accusers know CTV reporters socially, and that the broadcaster left out an account from a witness to one of the alleged incidents that refuted details of what allegedly happened.

CTV Communications Director Matthew Garrow says the network is aware of Brown's post and stands by its story.

Brown, whose resignation came months before a spring election, says he will clear his name.

The allegations reported by CTV have not been verified by The Canadian Press.


https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/brown-says-he-can-disprove-sexual-misconduct-allegations-against-him-1.3798889
RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 7993
Reputation: 270.9
votes: 3
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Former Ontario PC leader Patrick Brown blasts accusers in new Facebook post

In a Facebook post, he says he has evidence that details of the allegations are false

By Muriel Draaisma, CBC News Posted: Feb 11, 2018 12:25 PM ET| Last Updated: Feb 11, 2018 2:35 PM ET

Former Ontario Progressive Conservative leader Patrick Brown says on Facebook that sexual misconduct allegations against him contain details that he has found to be false and he will fight to clear his name.


Former Ontario Progressive Conservative leader Patrick Brown says on Facebook that sexual misconduct allegations against him contain details that he can prove are false and that he will continue to fight to clear his name.

"No words can describe the hurt and pain suffered by me and my family," he writes in the Facebook post, published on Sunday morning.

"For my family, for my constituents, and for the citizens of Ontario. I will now fight for my name and reputation."

Brown says in the lengthy post that the two female accusers presented stories with details that he says he can prove are false.

Patrick Brown
The former Ontario PC leader answers questions posed by reporters. Brown was ousted by allegations of sexual misconduct and the Progressive Conservative Party is now scrambling to find a new leader. (CBC)

He says the first accuser got a detail wrong in her story, in particular that the alleged incident occurred in a second-floor apartment bedroom, with the door closed.

Brown says that at the time of the alleged occurrence, he lived in an open concept, ground-floor apartment that did not have an upstairs bedroom nor a door to any bedroom in the residence.

Brown goes on to suggest that one of the CTV journalists who first reported the allegations against him had personal ties to one of the accusers.

"Interestingly, I understand from the first accuser's Facebook and from people we both know that she was housemates with a CTV reporter," Brown adds.

In regards to the second allegation, Brown says the woman tried to kiss him, not the other way around, and asserts he acted appropriately during the incident.

HomepageTheNationalPatrickBrown
'No words can describe the hurt and pain suffered by me and my family,' Brown writes in a Facebook post, published on Sunday morning. (CBC)

"I stopped her immediately and offered to drive her home, which I did. There are at least three witnesses, one of whom even spoke to CTV, that refute the details of her allegations. CTV left that out of the story," he says.

CTV News 'stands by its story'

Matthew Garrow, spokesperson for Bell Media, responded to Brown's Facebook post on Sunday in an email to CBC Toronto.

"CTV is aware of the claims made in Patrick Brown's Facebook post today and those reportedly made in his interview with the Toronto Sun. CTV News stands by its story," Garrow said in an email on Sunday.

Brown notes that one of his accusers continued to act as a supporter after the alleged incident. He says she attended his events, asking him to introduce her to colleagues to help her write articles, liked many of his Facebook posts and helped out on his leadership campaign.

According to Brown, she also sat a table of supporters when he spoke to the Economic Club of Canada in November 2016.

ONT Byelection 20160901
Brown writes: 'The #MeToo movement is too important to allow outrageous allegations like these to derail it.' (Chris Young/The Canadian Press)

"It is now known that this accuser and one of the reporters had a prior relationship. They both worked and socialized together. At no time did she ever act as someone who was anything but a friend and supporter," he says.

In the post, he expresses support for the #MeToo movement, a hashtag used by women on social media to demonstrate how widespread the problem of sexual harassment and sexual assault is and to share their personal stories.

"The #MeToo movement is important. I support it. I embrace it. My drive to public service includes creating a safer and more respectful world for women," he says.

"The #MeToo movement is too important to allow outrageous allegations like these to derail it."


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/.....70?cmp=rss
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( the more we find out about the accusations , the more they fall apart , now the friend who she claimed to be with , has said he wasn't , has never been to Brown's home with her and cannot even recall ever seeing her and brown together at a bar or anywhere )



Witnesses contradict key allegations against Patrick Brown


Antonella Artuso



James Wallace

More from James Wallace



Published:
February 14, 2018


Updated:
February 14, 2018 4:23 PM EST


Filed Under:

Canoe ›
News ›
Canada ›


Key aspects of a CTV News story that made damning sexual misconduct allegations against former Ontario PC leader Patrick Brown appear to be unravelling.

Brown resigned as party leader in late January after the news broadcaster published claims that Brown tried to pressure two young women, one a high school student and the other an intern in his office, into unwanted sex.

CTV acknowledged Tuesday night a pivotal accusation – that Brown plied an underage high school girl with booze – is not true. The accuser was neither in high school nor underage, she now admits.

Postmedia has interviewed people connected to Brown and the two women making allegations against Brown, and dispute key claims made against him.

CTV said in a Tuesday story that “the first accuser maintains the incident happened during a visit to Brown’s home with a mutual friend,” adding “that friend told CTV News he has no recollection of the night.”


However, when contacted by Postmedia, the friend insisted he wasn’t with her that night or with her ever at Brown’s home.

“I have known (her) since I was 16,” said the friend, who didn’t want to be identified because of the virulent controversy surrounding the story.

“I was actually very good friends with her,” he said. “We met through church at a youth group there.”

The friend said he was contacted by CTV Tuesday afternoon, and told the woman claimed she had been “partying” with him and another friend on the night Brown pressed her for sex, an allegation he adamantly denied.

“I don’t know if he suggested I had been drinking but I would dispute any allegation I was drinking at the time,” the friend told Postmedia. “Quite simply I didn’t start drinking until a little bit later in life.”

The friend, who Brown describes as an “acquaintance,” said it’s true he told CTV he had “no recollection” but also made it clear that if the events the accuser described happened, he was never there and had no knowledge of them.

Nor has he ever seen Brown or the young woman together.

“I have no recollection of her interacting with Patrick at a bar or elsewhere,” he said.

Brown’s second accuser, who worked as a summer student in his office in 2013, said he fed her drinks following a Barrie hockey fundraiser, kissed her without her permission and tried to pressure her into sex in his bedroom during a party, which she described to CTV as a “sexual assault.”

“The next thing I know he’s kissing me,” the she told CTV. “He continued to kiss me and he laid me down on the bed and got on top of me,” she said.

“I could feel his erection on my legs when he was on top of me so I felt that it would have gone to sexual intercourse if I had not done anything,” she said. “I would characterize that as a sexual assault.”

A woman who knows the second accuser told Postmedia that she admitted at the time that the “encounter with Patrick (had been) just a kiss, nothing more.”

But the day after that alleged assault, the staffer confided to her friend “there was just a kiss, nothing more.”

“She did not intimate to me that it was inappropriate or unwanted in nature at all and she also expressed regrets that she had been unfaithful to her boyfriend at that time.”

“I asked her if it was going to be awkward with Patrick Brown and she said no.”

Brown has maintained the former staffer, who has admitted she was drunk at the time, in fact kissed him.

Other sources at Brown’s home that night, who had gathered there following a charity hockey game in Barrie previously told Postmedia that the young woman had been following him around at the party.

Mikaela Patterson, who dating Brown at the time, was in the next room in fact.

Patterson said she and a girlfriend noticed the young woman following Brown around at the party.

“We went back to his house and the girl was kind of following him around which annoyed me,” she said. “And then Patrick ended up driving her home… and he spent the rest of the evening with me and Katie, my girlfriend.

The former staffer also told CTV that she received a raise following the incident, which is suggestive of a payoff.

However, sources with knowledge of Brown’s Barrie operation said in fact it was the former staffer who came looking for a raise, after learning a new crop of interns were being paid as much as she was making, despite having worked in Brown’s office for longer. On that basis, she asked for, and was given a raise.

Brown, in an exclusive interview with Postmedia on Friday, called the allegations against him “absolute lies” that have devastated both his career and personal life. He said the “truth will come out” and that he’s contemplating legal action to defend his reputation.

“CTV News fabricated a malicious and false report about me from two anonymous accusers,” Brown said in a Facebook post. “After a long three weeks, CTV News has now admitted that it got it wrong.



CTV has said it stands by its story, calling Brown’s public concerns about their story as “groundless and wrong.”

Brown first accuser, through CTV, also said she’s standing by her story. The second accuser told Postmedia she’s doing the same.


http://canoe.com/news/provinci.....7dbd506beb
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My head is spinning a little bit here because I am struggling to determine what is happening.

CTV is insisting they stand by the story;
But have (?) acknowledged that the girl who was identified as underage was not underage? Or not?

That makes a pretty significant difference here.

Now we have other unnamed sources disputing the first set of unnamed sources?

What a mess.
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( brown is apparently suing CTV over the story they aired)



'I AM SUING CTV': Brown fights back over misconduct story



Antonella Artuso



Published:
February 15, 2018


Updated:
February 15, 2018 1:13 PM EST


Filed Under:

Canoe ›
News ›
Canada ›


Patrick Brown has made good on a promise to launch a lawsuit against CTV over a bombshell sexual misconduct story he says is full of “lies.”

“I am suing CTV,” Brown said in a Facebook post Thursday morning. “My lawyers are talking to CTV.

“Early this week, CTV lawyers agreed to ensure that all emails, texts and other correspondence related to this travesty are held independently for safe keeping,” Brown said in the post.

“In the court of public opinion and among the many journalists I’ve spoken to, these allegations are now seen for what they are — fictitious and malicious,” he said.



CTV has previously said it stands by its story. It has not yet responded to Brown’s lawsuit.


Brown resigned as leader of the Ontario PC Party shortly after CTV aired a story on Jan. 24 that accused Brown of sexual misconduct involving two young women.

The first accuser maintained she was a high school student 10 years ago when Brown picked her up in a bar, fed her booze, brought her back to his home, and seduced her against her will in his second-floor bedroom, pressuring her into performing oral sex


http://canoe.com/news/provinci.....4e2f8e1f61
RCO





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votes: 3
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( well wynne made a big deal about how women should feel comfortable coming forward after the Brown incident , there is word she may of tried to cover up an alleged accusation against one of her own mpp's )



February 15, 2018 10:42 pm Updated: February 15, 2018 10:48 pm

Ex-Ontario Liberal minister accused of sexually assaulting staffer, Premier’s Office says unaware about case

By Rahul Kalvapalle
National Online Journalist Global News



Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne takes to the stage before addressing the Ontario Liberal Party's annual general meeting in Toronto, Feb. 3, 2018. Wynne's office said it was unaware of the allegations made by the woman.


A former Ontario Liberal cabinet minister is being accused of sexually assaulting and abusing one of his staffers over a decade ago.


The woman’s lawyer, former Liberal MP John Nunziata, tweeted that Premier Kathleen Wynne was informed about the alleged abuse three weeks ago. He didn’t disclose the name of the accused.


Nunziata told Global News that his client worked as an executive assistant to the accused.


He said the woman wrote a letter to Premier Wynne, who she knew from her time as a school trustee, in which she said she had reported the minister’s “repulsive and adulterous groping, propositioning and innuendo and chronic inebriation” to a human resources official in the legislative assembly.

In the letter, the woman said she was reassigned to a different office soon after and was told that no action would be taken against the minister because “we don’t want to embarrass the premier.” She was eventually let go from the Ontario Liberal Party.

The woman added that she was left with the impression that she wasn’t the first to raise concerns about the minister.


Nunziata challenged Wynne to take action against members of her party who he says were culpable in covering up the alleged abuse and silencing the accuser.

“The premier, when other situations have come forward, has praised women, calling them courageous, and so my client is one of those individuals. It took a lot for her to come forward,” Nunziata said.

“So we’d like to see what action the premier’s going to take when it’s one of her own.”


“We don’t know what Mr. Nunziata is referring to in his tweet,” a spokesperson for the Premier’s Office told Global News. “However, we can confirm that since becoming premier in 2013, Premier Wynne has not been informed of any complaints of this nature against any member of her cabinet.

“In saying that, we take these types of matters very seriously. When our office receives information related to sexual misconduct, we engage the services of outside counsel and, where appropriate, retain the services of those with expertise in workplace investigations.”


Nunziata said he can prove the Premier’s Office was in fact aware of the accusations, because his client received an email from the Premier’s lawyer.

He said he doesn’t plan to disclose the name of the accused at this time, saying he would leave that up to Wynne

https://globalnews.ca/news/4029090/ontario-liberal-minister-accused-of-sexual-assault/
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nunziata is a "good" Liberal. And he isn't the legal low-life that Butts is. So he is protective of the target. He must feel uncomfortable using the media to get a conviction when the Courtroom wouldn't hear the case.

More and more it looks as if Patrick Brown has been guzzled by a hit-squad of anonymous female liars that the gutless Progressive Conservative caucus couldn't stand up to.

This was so successful, why wouldn't other media organizations/political parties try it again?
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:

Patrick Brown has made good on a promise to launch a lawsuit against CTV over a bombshell sexual misconduct story he says is full of “lies.”

“I am suing CTV,” Brown said in a Facebook post Thursday morning. “My lawyers are talking to CTV.

“Early this week, CTV lawyers agreed to ensure that all emails, texts and other correspondence related to this travesty are held independently for safe keeping,” Brown said in the post.

“In the court of public opinion and among the many journalists I’ve spoken to, these allegations are now seen for what they are — fictitious and malicious,” he said.

http://canoe.com/news/provinci.....4e2f8e1f61


Good on him for coming out of the corner swinging;
But realistically, this is something that will likely go one for years and this is one of those things he couldn't have been able to do while staying on as leader.

Its going to be a brutal process.
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

February 15, 2018 4:53 pm

COMMENTARY: CTV’s Patrick Brown story lies in tatters

980 CFPL
By Andrew Lawton
Host 980 CFPL


In the world of theatre, there’s a precept that when one part of a performance is revealed to be false, the whole thing is.


If such an idea can be transposed to media, CTV’s infamous report of sexual misconduct by former PC party leader Patrick Brown appears to be little more than shoddy performance art, at this point.


The story, published in late January by Glen McGregor and Rachel Aiello, lies in tatters after both allegations face serious credibility challenges.

None more than the first accusation, which CTV’s initial story said occurred “more than 10 years ago.” The accuser said she was, at the time, a high school student who, though not of legal drinking age, met Brown at a bar and was invited back to his house, at which point he took her upstairs, closed his bedroom door and asked for oral sex, which she provided, despite feeling uncomfortable.

After laying low for a couple of weeks, Brown went on the offensive, supplying evidence he lived in a ground floor apartment that had no accessible second floor at the time. While CTV reported a mutual friend of both parties drove the accuser to Brown’s house, that friend told CBC he did no such thing.

According to Brown, this man said as much to McGregor, but it wasn’t included in the story.

After these discrepancies were revealed, CTV published another story — with no reporters claiming authorship — recanting the age of the accuser at the time of the alleged incident.

“She now says that she was of legal drinking age and out of high school,” the story said. “Brown was a Conservative member of Parliament at the time of the alleged incident.”

There was no apology, nor a formal correction.


As I write this Thursday morning — 36 hours after CTV published this alteration — the initial story remains unchanged, still accusing Brown of misconduct with a high school student.

This is especially disingenuous because the first accusation hinged predominantly on the accuser’s age. With no floor, no door, and no high school enrolment, the story is just that a 20-something politician got lucky with a woman he met at a bar.

And even then, Brown says it never happened, repeatedly calling it a “lie.”

The second allegation is hardly in better shape now, featuring not only failings of journalistic competence, but what I see as serious ethical breaches, too.

WATCH BELOW: Patrick Brown says incident never happened


Play Video

In an interview with Global News reporter Carolyn Jarvis, Brown said he learned of a personal relationship between one of the reporters of the initial story and the second accuser, a former employee of Brown’s who said he kissed and lay on top of her while she was drunk at a party at Brown’s house. When she stopped him, he drove her home.

Brown says she tried to kiss him, and that he didn’t invite her to his room — she followed him there.

No relationship between the accuser and a CTV reporter was disclosed by the network, which hasn’t responded specifically to the allegation since.

For its part, CTV says it continues to stand by its reporting, and that “Patrick Brown’s allegations regarding our reporting are false.”

“CTV News took steps before publication and broadcast to ensure there was no previous contact with any of the journalists that would influence the reporting,” a story published Tuesday night said.

Note that CTV doesn’t appear to deny that there is a relationship, nor that there was contact — just that the company found no contact “that would influence the reporting.”

I think CTV will find its wordplay isn’t enough to defend the story — even if both accusers are standing by the spirit of their allegations, despite some key facts not backing them up.


One of the most challenging aspects of misconduct allegations is that they are so often he said/she said cases. Witnesses to either an accuser or an accused dramatically shift perceptions for this precise reason.

Any credible witness should have been included in the story. Any witness whose testimony wasn’t credible should still have been acknowledged — and challenged.

If Brown’s claims are true, this did not happen.

It’s unsurprising that Brown pledged in a Thursday post on his Facebook page to sue CTV. The network responded with a statement on Thursday: “We welcome the opportunity to defend our journalism in court.”


If this story becomes litigated in a courtroom, it will be about evidence. There will be no protection of the accusers’ identities. The facts, rather than vague recollections, will determine the outcome. The result, one hopes, will be a credible answer to what happened.

I have to wonder whether CTV will even report it, in that case.


https://globalnews.ca/news/4027497/commentary-ctvs-patrick-brown-story-lies-in-tatters/
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
RCO wrote:

Patrick Brown has made good on a promise to launch a lawsuit against CTV over a bombshell sexual misconduct story he says is full of “lies.”

“I am suing CTV,” Brown said in a Facebook post Thursday morning. “My lawyers are talking to CTV.

“Early this week, CTV lawyers agreed to ensure that all emails, texts and other correspondence related to this travesty are held independently for safe keeping,” Brown said in the post.

“In the court of public opinion and among the many journalists I’ve spoken to, these allegations are now seen for what they are — fictitious and malicious,” he said.

http://canoe.com/news/provinci.....4e2f8e1f61


Good on him for coming out of the corner swinging;
But realistically, this is something that will likely go one for years and this is one of those things he couldn't have been able to do while staying on as leader.

Its going to be a brutal process.



I find it disturbing that we seem to have a situation where an "anonymous " accuser has been allowed to make a serious accusation against a high profile person without seemingly any evidence .

she has provided no proof she even meet Brown at any point in her life , and provided no proof and not 1 witness to back up her late night story which continues to change from being a high school girl to now a 19 year old .

the friend who was supposedly there has said he wasn't and he's never even seen her with or near brown in her life , accusation # 1 seems to be entirely made up , a piece of fiction


were opening the door for anyone to come out and make any sort of accusation against anyone they don't like . say you don't like the mayor of your town or city , find someone to accuse them of something and even if its not true they'll likely be forced out

considering the partisan nature of politics this sort of thing is very dangerous , obviously every politician has people that don't like them or want there job instead
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:

I find it disturbing that we seem to have a situation where an "anonymous " accuser has been allowed to make a serious accusation against a high profile person without seemingly any evidence .


Which is why its so important for Brown to come out swinging if there is actually no wrongdoing.
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( according to a sun exclusive , brown passed a lie detector test with a very high % chance of him telling the truth )


EXCLUSIVE: Patrick Brown passed lie-detector test

James Wallace

More from James Wallace



Antonella Artuso

More from Antonella Artuso



Published:
February 16, 2018


Updated:
February 16, 2018 11:26 AM EST


Filed Under:

Toronto SUN ›
News ›
Ontario ›


Patrick Brown passed a lie-detector test that asked him detailed questions about sexual misconduct allegations against him, the Toronto Sun has learned.

The test, administered by one of Canada’s top polygraph experts, was conducted in two stages on Feb. 14 and Feb 15 in Markham.

Brown was asked about the specific accusations that have been made by him by two women, one that occurred five years ago and the other about 10 years ago.

The first accuser told CTV in a story aired Jan 24 that she was in high school and underage some 10 years ago when she met Brown in a Barrie bar with a “mutual friend” both knew and was invited back to Brown’s home, where he gave her a tour that ended up in his bedroom where Brown closed his upstairs bedroom door and “exposed his penis to her.”

The second accuser, who worked as a summer student in Brown’s office in 2013, also said he fed her drinks following a Barrie hockey fundraiser and during an after-party at his home, kissed her without permission then tried to pressure her into sex in his bedroom, which she described to CTV as a “sexual assault.”


John Galianos, who has been conducting polygraph tests for some 40 years, asked Brown a series of questions about both sets of allegations.

Brown was asked whether he asked the first accuser to perform oral sex on him, whether he put his penis in her mouth, whether he exposed himself to her, and whether he was lying about denying he received oral sex from her.

In each case, Brown not only answered truthfully, Galianos said, he exceeded the standards use to determine truth by the FBI and RCMP.

Regarding the second set of allegations, Brown was asked to explain his version of what happened – specifically that the second accuser during the fundraiser after-party came into his bedroom and kissed him, not the other way around as she described. And that afterwards, because he felt she might be embarrassed, he drove her home.

Mark Sandler, the prominent Toronto defence lawyer representing Brown, said the polygraph expert offered an “unequivocal opinion (Brown) is being truthful in denying the sexual misconduct allegations.”

CTV and the lawyer representing the women who made the claim have said they stand by their story


http://torontosun.com/news/pro.....ector-test
Bugs





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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
Bugs wrote:
Does it matter? The wound still exists. The wound was delivered by the Progressive Conservative leadership, or some cabal ... when they saw their advantage and struck. Our party is now being led by a bunch of treacherous scoundrels.

My suggestion: just don't donate, in protest. Some shadowt group has pushed the membership aside and overthrown the leader we elected. All on the incentivized testimony of a young woman who got at least one component of her story provably wrong. It's their show, not ours.

If a large number of donors took a pass, it would send a message that has to be sent. We should not passively accept these events, and there is only one way to react back -- by withholding donations.

If there is no reaction back, the chances of this happening again increase.

There isn't one of the public's issues involved! It's all egos jostling to win what Brown worked so hard to bring together. It's a bunch of lawyers and MBAs, heavily salted with private school boys who thihk that anyone who lives north of York Mills is an unworthy yokel.

If Brown has the mettle for true leadership, he should run for the leadership again. Isn't that what an innocent man would do?



well my post was only about Brown's response to the accusations , the party initially said they believed the women .

however considering the lack of new evidence or witnesses , there seems to be nothing to prove the 2 accusations really happened . some of the people there that night clearly say they are false .


its up to the party to decide what standard of evidence is enough to declare these accusations truthful or false

at this point Brown is building a strong case that they are false

but the election is happening this spring and he might not have enough time to 100% clear his name by then

his best option might be to take a break from politics and consider returning down the road if such an opportunity comes forward or he could return to his legal practice ? it appears he started out in that career


RCO, you are asking a guy who has made a huge investment in this project to go away and come back later.

With respect, this is the more appropriate way to look at it. The duly elected leader of the party was forced to resign -- and may not even have resigned himself -- because of false charges. The act happened so fast that Brown can credibly claim to have been confused and stunned by events as they unfolded. He didn't rationally pull the arguments apart for a couple of days, having to pacify a family.

And let's just think on that, how your kids come home from school, turn on the TV and see that your father is getting blowjobs from teenagers! Can you imagine what you would come home to if your wife found out the same thing about you -- from the public media?

Honestly, I pull my hair. What is wrong with you people? Do you have no heart? No stomach? This is a time for righteous anger. This is splitting the party on the eve of an election over unprovable, and probably false charges. It may be a simply slander.

If this isn't an outrage, what is? If this happened in Bosnia or Venezuela, you'd know what to call it.

Let me tell you this -- the people want Patrick Brown. Anything else risks splitting the party, either before or after the election. Ms Lapham, or Mulroney (or whoever she calls herself when she signs cheques) expects to get in through a big advertising budget. She has few roots here.

From that point of view, Elliott is a better choice, a kinder George Bush, a compassionate conservative ... but sadly for her, these are not times for kind-hearted people. It's a time to take the dagger out of the back of Brown and use it on whoever owns it. And I don't think Ms Elliott is the girl for that.
RCO





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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
RCO wrote:
Bugs wrote:
Does it matter? The wound still exists. The wound was delivered by the Progressive Conservative leadership, or some cabal ... when they saw their advantage and struck. Our party is now being led by a bunch of treacherous scoundrels.

My suggestion: just don't donate, in protest. Some shadowt group has pushed the membership aside and overthrown the leader we elected. All on the incentivized testimony of a young woman who got at least one component of her story provably wrong. It's their show, not ours.

If a large number of donors took a pass, it would send a message that has to be sent. We should not passively accept these events, and there is only one way to react back -- by withholding donations.

If there is no reaction back, the chances of this happening again increase.

There isn't one of the public's issues involved! It's all egos jostling to win what Brown worked so hard to bring together. It's a bunch of lawyers and MBAs, heavily salted with private school boys who thihk that anyone who lives north of York Mills is an unworthy yokel.

If Brown has the mettle for true leadership, he should run for the leadership again. Isn't that what an innocent man would do?



well my post was only about Brown's response to the accusations , the party initially said they believed the women .

however considering the lack of new evidence or witnesses , there seems to be nothing to prove the 2 accusations really happened . some of the people there that night clearly say they are false .


its up to the party to decide what standard of evidence is enough to declare these accusations truthful or false

at this point Brown is building a strong case that they are false

but the election is happening this spring and he might not have enough time to 100% clear his name by then

his best option might be to take a break from politics and consider returning down the road if such an opportunity comes forward or he could return to his legal practice ? it appears he started out in that career


RCO, you are asking a guy who has made a huge investment in this project to go away and come back later.

With respect, this is the more appropriate way to look at it. The duly elected leader of the party was forced to resign -- and may not even have resigned himself -- because of false charges. The act happened so fast that Brown can credibly claim to have been confused and stunned by events as they unfolded. He didn't rationally pull the arguments apart for a couple of days, having to pacify a family.

And let's just think on that, how your kids come home from school, turn on the TV and see that your father is getting blowjobs from teenagers! Can you imagine what you would come home to if your wife found out the same thing about you -- from the public media?

Honestly, I pull my hair. What is wrong with you people? Do you have no heart? No stomach? This is a time for righteous anger. This is splitting the party on the eve of an election over unprovable, and probably false charges. It may be a simply slander.

If this isn't an outrage, what is? If this happened in Bosnia or Venezuela, you'd know what to call it.

Let me tell you this -- the people want Patrick Brown. Anything else risks splitting the party, either before or after the election. Ms Lapham, or Mulroney (or whoever she calls herself when she signs cheques) expects to get in through a big advertising budget. She has few roots here.

From that point of view, Elliott is a better choice, a kinder George Bush, a compassionate conservative ... but sadly for her, these are not times for kind-hearted people. It's a time to take the dagger out of the back of Brown and use it on whoever owns it. And I don't think Ms Elliott is the girl for that.



he did invest a lot of time and effort into being pc leader but he never had much of an impact , polls had always said he was unknown and had never had much of a personal impact on most voters

when the unions started to run attack ads for a short period his numbers went way down

now he's known far and wide as the guy accused of sexual assault , possibly these accusations are not credible but there still out there , and Lisa Mcleod hinted earlier she had been aware of other incidents that were similar in nature , she was told they were unfounded but the fact so many rumours about his personal life are out there is deeply troubling

the guy is too much of a risk , what if he gets accused of sexual harassment again during the actual election ? the campaign is short , the party can't spend weeks trying to sort out such a mess and still hope to win

CTV would love for there to be a 3rd new accuser just to justify there earlier story that is starting to fall apart
RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 7993
Reputation: 270.9
votes: 3
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( there is a long and confusing blog post just released that further explains the brown situation , it confirms ctv had a 3rd accuser but choose not to pursue her story cause they had confirmed that she was an Ontario liberal party supporter )



“CTV News was careful and took necessary steps to ensure there was no political motivation on behalf of the two female complainants,” he says. “Further there was no political connection to how CTV News received this story. In fact, we can confirm there was at least one other woman who came forward who made allegations of a sexual nature against Patrick Brown. We did not pursue her story due to her public support of the Provincial Liberal Party.”



http://www.canadalandshow.com/.....ick-brown/
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