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Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

His approach strikes me as both Red Tory and Harris-lite. Your previous point about Bill Davis seem to fit, but there are other similarities that seem like an update of Harris' approach.

He is being very careful, he is laying low, and he is appealing to the middle-of-the-road. At this moment, he will respond to the spotlight stories in a way that takes the issue away from Wynne. He is also subliminally giving us the impression that, in all those decisions that never get to center stage, his conservative bias -- which is timely -- will express itself. It is not ideological, its what pragmatist call common sense.

He wants the election to be more about getting rid of Wynne than in promoting himself as the star attraction. He doesn't want to put anything in the way of defeating Wynne decisively. Thus the promise on the hydro bills. It's bogus economics but it is a sound electoral strategy for the coming Ontario election.

But it worries me when I see the same strategy being aped at the federal level. That's a very different context. For anyone who's watching, the federal government doesn't appear to be failing. It is far inferior to Harper's, and the wheels are only starting to fall off. The fact is -- they don't give a rat's ass about (a) money, (b) good administration, or (c) tending to the actual national interest. So we know where this is going.

Andrew doesn't need to be elusive. He needs to learn how to use the media. He has a task of public education to undertake. He has to get out there, developing the ability to put the spotlight on his issues.

I wish I could be optimistic.
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Spectator's View: Brown’s Tories leap to the centre

Opinion 12:00 AM Hamilton Spectator|


PATRICK BROWN


In this file photo, Ontario PC Leader Patrick Brown. At heart, Brown's election platform isn’t about left-versus-right ideology as much as it’s about crafting a strategy to win a provincial election, something the Tories have failed to do four times in a row. - Chris Young,The Canadian Press file photo


On our political Richter scale, Patrick Brown's election platform registers a ground-rumbling magnitude of 5.5.

That's a moderate — but definite — earthquake.

By promising billions of dollars in new spending in addition to carbon taxes and even — shades of Justin Trudeau — a budgetary deficit, the Ontario Progressive Conservative leader has shifted the tectonic plates beneath Queen's Park and pushed his party to the centre.

These are not the staunchly right-wing Tories of former premier Mike Harris and his Common Sense Revolution or of fiscal hawk Tim Hudak who, as leader, proposed prison chain gangs and pink slips for 100,000 civil servants.

No, despite its ideological fuzziness and questionable pledge to give more to Ontarians for less, the "People's Guarantee" platform for next June's provincial election takes the party 40 years back to the golden days of then-premier Bill Davis and his centrist, if bland, Big Blue Machine.

If it were a beer, this platform would be called Liberal lite.

Predictably, critics have pounced on it with charges that Brown's platform is contradictory and promises far more than he can ever deliver.

For instance, while the Tories would cut taxes for the middle class, they'd replace the Liberals' cap-and-trade program for fighting climate change with a carbon tax which would actually bring more revenue into provincial coffers.

Somehow, voters are supposed to believe Brown can spend billions of new dollars on childcare subsidies, new subways, mental health and even subsidized snow tires while ferreting out billions in savings — all while he pays down Ontario's $312-billion debt and leaves more cash in everyone's wallet.

Then there's the complaint that Brown is prepared to gain a government by sacrificing the Progressive Conservative soul.



He's gleefully keeping big-ticket Liberal spending initiatives such as expanded drug coverage and tuition rebates. He'd even stick with the Liberal plan to raise the hourly minimum wage to $15 — though over a longer time period.

But at heart, this platform isn't about left-versus-right ideology as much as it's about crafting a strategy to win a provincial election, something the Tories have failed to do four times in a row.

Of course the platform's details matter and Brown did voters a favour by releasing it last weekend, seven months before the election.

But Brown's most important message transcends the details.

He's saying his party stands smack dab in the centre of the political spectrum.

He's saying that if you're tired of 14 years of the Liberals and have had enough of Premier Kathleen Wynne, elect Progressive Conservatives and be rest assured they won't rock the boat too much.

In the coming months, voters should carefully study this platform for themselves before making a call, even as they pay attention to the other election issues such as the riding nomination scandals that have hit the Tories, particularly in Hamilton, where police are investigating the contest in Hamilton West-Ancaster-Dundas.

For now, however, voters can welcome Brown's platform for its radical remake of the PC party and for the new and viable centrist option it gives them.

https://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/7971167-the-spectator-s-view-brown-s-tories-leap-to-the-centre/
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is becoming a meme. It's the idea that Patrick Brown is somehow betraying something in the PCs past, some wonderful past core of integrity and vision. But one of the big problems with conservatism in Canada is that it doesn't stand for anything, at least in that sense.

It used to be all about the British connection, the Monarch, and all that outdated crap.

But it lost that in Diefenbaker's time. There were big PC political machines in the provinces, but they stayed in power by being big-state planners for the welfare state. They dropped ideology in favour of blandness. Particularly in Bill Davis' Ontario that was the case.

After Davis, years of confusion. In the meantime, American conservatism came to the fore, and it had, as political philosophies are concerned, a real philosophical grounding (Russell Kirk), and an economic theory (supply-side economics).

But Canadian conservatives don't read that much ... How many of them even know who Edmund Burke is?

Part of Canadian conservatism's problems is that it does not have any issues on which it takes principled stands. Nevertheless, ideas from American conservatives slowly percolate in Canada. Stephen Harper is the best example, but he's the guy that the current crop doesn't want to be like.

This is how bad it is, in terms of core principles. We had an interim leader who -- as her departing legacy -- was "given" a new law to mark her retirement. (That alone shows the regard for the law -- it's a trifle that politicians can play with?) That law aims to improve the already improved lot of women by jimmying the courts. (the 'independence of the judiciary' is already a laughable concept for anyone who's noticing.) As if the judiciary isn't bad enough now ... they'll get more lessons on believing women whether they are lying or not. Or sumpthin' like that ...

And no conservative that can get printed steps forward?

It means our party is about nothing but defeating Justin. And they aren't very good at that

There may be regional loyalties to the party, but those loyalties are chiefly due to patronage, and getting more of the treasury for them. That's not what I think of when I think Conservative. Think of that pole-cat Danny Wiliams (sorry PT) but with people like that, what chance do core principles stand?
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( the new forum polls shows increasingly dismal liberal numbers and the pc's still way ahead although not as high as before . the bad news for Brown might be the limited faith voters have in politicians , his People's Guarantee may be a hard sell to an extremely skeptical public but he may easily win anyways )


Kathleen Wynne's Liberals trail Tories and NDP: Poll


Antonella Artuso
Antonella Artuso

More from Antonella Artuso



Published:
December 4, 2017


Updated:
December 4, 2017 8:36 AM EST


Filed Under:

Toronto SUN ›
News ›
Ontario ›


PC leader Patrick Brown and Premier Kathleen Wynne.Toronto Sun files



The Kathleen Wynne Liberals are heading toward a third-place finish in the next provincial election despite popular moves like a $15-an-hour minimum wage, a new Forum poll shows.

Forum Research president Lorne Bozinoff said the numbers didn’t improve for the Ontario Liberal government even after it cut hydro bills by an average 25%.

“The announcement had no impact on Liberal fortunes,” Bozinoff added. “And then people’s hydro bills started going down and it still did not have an impact on the Liberal fortunes.

“I think, for the Liberals to grow, it’s a lot harder than you might normally imagine it’s going to be, and that might all be due to the 15 years in government,” he said.

The Forum poll shows the Ontario Progressive Conservatives, under leader Patrick Brown, dropped 5% from October but are still heading toward a “massive majority.”


Voters polled by Forum put the Tories at 40%, Andrea Horwath’s NDP at 26% and the Liberals at 24%.

The pollster projects that if the numbers hold, the NDP would form the official opposition.

Bozinoff noted the drop in Tory support coincided with an aggressive media campaign by union-funded Working Families and Working Ontario Women that targeted Brown as a Donald Trump clone and social conservative.

“This shows a minimal impact — the Tories are down a little bit, the NDP are up a little bit,” he said.

The Liberals are down pretty much to their base — those who will vote for them regardless of events, he said.

Wynne’s popularity numbers aren’t helping, he said.

The Forum poll found that 15% approve of her performance as premier, compared to 74% who thought she was doing a bad job of it, while 10% had no opinion.

Former premier Dalton McGuinty came close to winning a third majority government despite popularity numbers in the low 20s, but these findings are even lower, Bozinoff said.

It’s still about six months away from a provincial election and voters might be tuned out at the moment or just parking their vote to make up their minds later, he said.

One problem that will face all political leaders — the same poll found that almost nobody faithfully believes their promises.

One percent – practically zero – say they have a lot of trust in election promises, Forum found. Another 28% said they have some trust, 46% said not a lot of trust.

Roughly one out of every three people polled, 32%, said they had no trust at all in pre-election offerings.

Forum Research polled 861 Ontario voters between Nov. 29-30 through an interactive voice response telephone survey, and its results are considered accurate plus or minus 3%, 19 times out of 20

http://torontosun.com/news/pro.....d-ndp-poll
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's hard to see how anything that would cause 5% of the population to change its party preference happened. I'd put this down to noise in the system.

Speaking objectively, the PC's have had a hard time overcoming a really bad Liberal government. It wasn't just Hudak's misjudgement, there was also John Tory's missed opportunity when he bungled into the Catholic schools issue. Full disclosure: me, too, I supported Hudak's approach at the time. You live, you learn.

I think this is why Brown is being so cautious. If I read him right, he was a social conservative that was marginal in the federal Conservatives. He got the leadership and has taken every predictable issue away, even to the extent of promising to continue the hydro subsidies. He abandoned the social conservatives, probably because he sees them as a 'net' vulnerability. I don't think he gave up his convictions. The media see him as having moved to the centre, so it has worked.

There's a slogan in sales education. It accepts that the consumer is suspicious of the salesman. It goes something like this: "If you tell them, they won't believe you; but if they tell you, they will." Sales is about overcoming objections. Brown doesn't have to expose what has already been exposed. He is trying to get the majority see him as merely the safe, sane alternative, even if he is a Progressive Conservative.

Not like Hudak or Harris. But not like John Tory, either.

Remember, this is only the backdrop for a drama that will appear later. It's the wallpaper. Everywhere I go, I find that people are disgusted in a general way with this government. They don't feel they have to justify themselves, it's a consensus. Brown wants to keep that consensus growing. He wants to take every objection away.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The drops in support come mostly from the 416 and 905 regions;
In the 416 the PCs still lead within the MoE and in the 905s they are still ahead by 14 points over a now tied NDP and OLP.

There is a drop in Eastern Ontario but the PCs are still nearly 20 points up.

http://poll.forumresearch.com/.....%20Nov.pdf

If Brown wins a majority its going to look a lot like Stephen Harpers Ontario map in 2011.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the Forum polling report ...

Quote:
... Almost zero (1%) say they have a lot of trust in the promises made by politicians before an election. One quarter (28%) say they have some trust, while almost half (46%) say they do not have a lot of trust. A quarter (23%) have no trust at all in pre-election promises.

“Brown's lead has slipped slightly," said Dr. Lorne Bozinoff, President of Forum Research. “Despite the dip, he's still sitting in majority territory, which is a good place to be six months before the election. One thing that is common to voters, regardless of political stripe? They don't really trust election promises."


This strikes me as a significant finding.
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick Brown sticks to his 'guarantee' even if he only wins minority

In interview looking ahead to 2018 Ontario election, PC leader downplays police probe into his party

By Mike Crawley, CBC News Posted: Dec 28, 2017 5:00 AM ET| Last Updated: Dec 28, 2017 5:00 AM ET

Ontario PC leader Patrick Brown, in his office at Queen's Park, in conversation with CBC provincial affairs reporter Mike Crawley.


If Ontario PC leader Patrick Brown forms government but fails to keep all five of his key campaign promises, he guarantees he won't seek a second term — even if the other parties are to blame.

Brown made the comments in my year-end interview with him, looking ahead to the 2018 provincial election campaign.

Since a PC minority government is one possible election outcome, I asked Brown if there are any exceptions to his pledge not to run again if he doesn't implement the central planks of the party platform called the "People's Guarantee." He said no.


"I'm just tired of having politicians make promises with no intention of putting anything behind those promises," Brown said. "I wanted more than mere words in a platform. I wanted to back it up with a guarantee that I'm all in, and if I don't get it done for the people of Ontario, then I wouldn't seek a second term."

I pressed Brown, "Even if you're a premier in a minority government, and the opposition gets together and blocks you from one of your key five promises, you will not run again?"

"If it's a minority parliament, I would work with other parties to make sure that we pass these five aspects," he replied. "I'm committed to this guarantee."

Patrick Brown
Ontario PC leader Patrick Brown (CBC)


Brown is also sticking with calling Premier Kathleen Wynne's Liberal government "politically corrupt," despite the acquittal of two senior party officials, including one of Wynne's closest advisers, in the Sudbury byelection bribery trial.

During their 14 years in power, the Liberals "may not have broken criminal laws but they certainly have broken the lines of what I think most Ontario families would view as appropriate ethical conduct," Brown said.

He said there is "no comparison" between police investigations into the Liberal government and the police investigation into the PC party's controversial nomination race in the riding of Hamilton West-Ancaster-Dundas.

"I instructed our team to provide any correspondence, anything the investigation was interested in, whereas you've got the Liberal Party was alleged to have deleted evidence," Brown said.

He was referring to the case of two senior aides to former premier Dalton McGuinty, who are on trial on charges of mischief and unauthorized use of a computer for allegedly deleting government documents about the gas plant cancellations. A ruling is scheduled for Jan. 19.

"This is almost two billion dollars the taxpayers are going to pay because of decisions the Liberal government took and then tried to cover up," Brown said. "We're talking about taxpayers being out billions of dollars, compared to overheated nominations where everyone and their brother seems to want to run for the PCs right now. I don't think that's a fair comparison."

Patrick Brown
Patrick Brown isn't saying what he will do if charges are laid as a result of a Hamilton police investigation into a contested Ontario PC nomination battle. (Claudine Brulé/Radio-Canada)

Hamilton police are investigating allegations by would-be PC candidate Vikram Singh that party officials rigged the nomination meeting to prevent him from winning. The Ontario PC Party has battled in court to keep a taped conversation about those allegations from becoming public.

During the interview, Brown declined to commit to a course of action if charges are laid against any party officials.

"I'm not going to get into hypotheticals," Brown said.

"Frankly, I think people are missing the bigger picture here," he added. "We've never had as many people wanting to run for our nominations. It's a sign of excitement that we have these giant nominations everywhere in the province."


The PCs are not committing to reverse several of the Wynne government's key initiatives that they have strongly criticized. Those include reforms to employment law, the privatization of Hydro One, and the 17 per cent reduction in electricity bills the Liberals call the Fair Hydro Plan.

"I'm not going to do anything that will cause the taxpayers to pay more. To unravel the unfair hydro plan would be too costly now," said Brown. "I wish they hadn't done it, it's going to cost Ontario ratepayers more, but they did it."

He rejects the NDP's pledge to bring Hydro One back into public hands as a "pie-in-the-sky" idea.

"Those shares are sold, the damage is done," Brown said. "You can't force a private shareholder to sell back a share to the province of Ontario."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/.....-1.4458632
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like these answers very much. Brown is manifesting the frustration a lot of people are feeling -- in other words, in mirroring these sentiments, he is illustrating to the people that he is one of them. One time doesn't do it, of course, but that's the effect. Maybe it's cynical, and designed -- but there's a chance that it's an honest reaction, which makes it better.

The 905 is the ring of municipalities around Toronto where the new housing has been built. It's full of recent immigrants who are successful. A lot of them are working couples, where one (often the wife) has a job in the civil service, and the partner works in some capacity in the private economy.

Everyone knows that things are excessive now. It can't go on, even if the Liberals retain power. Some measure of austerity is essential.

And what the 905 people know -- I suspect -- is that ethnic minorities benefit disproportionately from the status quo. They staff our civil services at every level of government. So austerity is a two-edged sword to them.

The 905 is only the thickest cluster of such ridings. There are similar areas in all the big cities, particularly if they have a university. These -- along with some Northern Ontario seats -- are probably the 'swing ridings'in Ontario.

Personally, I have a suspicion is that Brown is very conscious of this fact, and is campaigning accordingly. I think he's hitting the right tone but that's only an opinion. I don't really know how the 905 people are reacting, but you can bet -- this is where the pollsters are taking samples regularly, and looking for themes that resonate with the majority. Brown looks reality-based, rather than vindictive. If he isn't going to roll back the hydro discounts, he isn't going to gore the civil service. So it's reassuring, or at least that's how I see it.
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
I like these answers very much. Brown is manifesting the frustration a lot of people are feeling -- in other words, in mirroring these sentiments, he is illustrating to the people that he is one of them. One time doesn't do it, of course, but that's the effect. Maybe it's cynical, and designed -- but there's a chance that it's an honest reaction, which makes it better.

The 905 is the ring of municipalities around Toronto where the new housing has been built. It's full of recent immigrants who are successful. A lot of them are working couples, where one (often the wife) has a job in the civil service, and the partner works in some capacity in the private economy.

Everyone knows that things are excessive now. It can't go on, even if the Liberals retain power. Some measure of austerity is essential.

And what the 905 people know -- I suspect -- is that ethnic minorities benefit disproportionately from the status quo. They staff our civil services at every level of government. So austerity is a two-edged sword to them.

The 905 is only the thickest cluster of such ridings. There are similar areas in all the big cities, particularly if they have a university. These -- along with some Northern Ontario seats -- are probably the 'swing ridings'in Ontario.

Personally, I have a suspicion is that Brown is very conscious of this fact, and is campaigning accordingly. I think he's hitting the right tone but that's only an opinion. I don't really know how the 905 people are reacting, but you can bet -- this is where the pollsters are taking samples regularly, and looking for themes that resonate with the majority. Brown looks reality-based, rather than vindictive. If he isn't going to roll back the hydro discounts, he isn't going to gore the civil service. So it's reassuring, or at least that's how I see it.



I'm fairly certain the 905 will be where the election is won or lost , when you look thru the ridings and maps of past results .

its pretty clear the pc's rural base of 20 or so seats is safe , a lot of the ndp's seats up north and in places like Windsor are going to stay ndp , the core of downtown Ottawa , ridings like Ottawa vanier is still liberal

the likely swing area is Toronto and the 905 , maybe less Toronto but is 416 ridings that could flip this year . but when you look at the 905 it really stands out , Brampton , Mississauga , markham , Oakville , Durham , all those suburbs around the city


wynne would need to hold all of them to have any hope of staying in power and brown would need to make gains all around the city to become premier himself

so Brown's campaign will have to be very 905 centric this election
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( its not clear if this challenge would have time to work thru the courts before the likely May start of the election ? or if it would even have any chance in front of a judge . whats there argument ? unions have a right to dictate who wins the election ? )


Union group challenges Ontario law limiting election advertising

By The Canadian Press. Published on Jan 23, 2018 2:13pm


Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne will be going to the polls next June. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Frank Gunn.


TORONTO — A coalition of Ontario unions that has spent millions on attack ads targeting Progressive Conservatives during past election campaigns is fighting a Liberal law that limits how much third parties can spend on election advertising.

The Working Families group has filed a constitutional challenge against Bill 2, alleging the law that took effect last year infringes on free expression and free association.

The group says the law restricts how organizations and individuals can participate in the election process.

Under the law, political parties and the special interest groups known as third parties have caps on how much they can spend on political advertising during elections and in the six months leading up to the dropping of the writ starting the campaign.

It’s the first time third parties, who have been influential in past Ontario elections, have spending limits.

A spokesman for the Ministry of the Attorney General says the government believes the rules comply with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.


https://ipolitics.ca/2018/01/23/union-groups-challenges-ontario-law-limiting-election-advertising/
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, yes, yes ... at last, some progressives doing something worthwhile.

It seems to me that this is another one of those cases where the powers that be are stifling other opinions, which they don't confront with facts so much as dismiss them out of hand.

All the social conservative issues are contemptible. And the people who take up local issues on behalf of constituents are on a career hit list. That's how they do it in the 21st century -- they don't stab you and throw your body in the river, as they did in medieval Florence. They destroy your career. You know it and I know it, and everyone tries to deny it.

When government schools start building bathrooms for sexual preferences you didn't even know existed five years ago -- and encouraging kids, in classrooms, to 'express themselves' as whatever gender they want ... why shouldn't parents be able to take their concerns to the chamber where the conch shell sits?

So, sure, give these groups an access to the public square. If their members can pay for the billboard, why not let the unions make sure we know what the good side of the Wynne government is?

And let others join in, as well, giving us a morning smile as they mock and taunt one another in clever ways. Any group that has the energy to actually put some effort behind their beliefs should be allowed to do so as part of 'their political freedom of speech.

Let's see how the Courts protect that freedom ...
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
( its not clear if this challenge would have time to work thru the courts before the likely May start of the election ? or if it would even have any chance in front of a judge . whats there argument ? unions have a right to dictate who wins the election ? )

Union group challenges Ontario law limiting election advertising

By The Canadian Press. Published on Jan 23, 2018 2:13pm

Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne will be going to the polls next June. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Frank Gunn.

TORONTO — A coalition of Ontario unions that has spent millions on attack ads targeting Progressive Conservatives during past election campaigns is fighting a Liberal law that limits how much third parties can spend on election advertising.

The Working Families group has filed a constitutional challenge against Bill 2, alleging the law that took effect last year infringes on free expression and free association.

The group says the law restricts how organizations and individuals can participate in the election process.

Under the law, political parties and the special interest groups known as third parties have caps on how much they can spend on political advertising during elections and in the six months leading up to the dropping of the writ starting the campaign.

It’s the first time third parties, who have been influential in past Ontario elections, have spending limits.

A spokesman for the Ministry of the Attorney General says the government believes the rules comply with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

https://ipolitics.ca/2018/01/23/union-groups-challenges-ontario-law-limiting-election-advertising/


Its an interesting discussion;

Can a government restrict how much money can be spent by an entity within the context of an election or for that matter can a government restrict how much money an individual, business, or union can donate to a political cause.

While it certainly an interesting debate, the precedent is largely already in place.
When the Federal Government banned 3rd party spending in the 1980s they were challenged by the the National Citizens Coalition in the late 1990s and lost in the Supreme Court.

Legislation was re-jiged to make it more "charter friendly" in 2000 and was upheld in front of the Supreme Court in 2004.

The current Ontario legislation is largely based on the same system the Federal Liberals put on place early in the 2000s and likely done in such a manner to have that precedent on its side.

However the arguments will be interesting.
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
RCO wrote:
( its not clear if this challenge would have time to work thru the courts before the likely May start of the election ? or if it would even have any chance in front of a judge . whats there argument ? unions have a right to dictate who wins the election ? )

Union group challenges Ontario law limiting election advertising

By The Canadian Press. Published on Jan 23, 2018 2:13pm

Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne will be going to the polls next June. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Frank Gunn.

TORONTO — A coalition of Ontario unions that has spent millions on attack ads targeting Progressive Conservatives during past election campaigns is fighting a Liberal law that limits how much third parties can spend on election advertising.

The Working Families group has filed a constitutional challenge against Bill 2, alleging the law that took effect last year infringes on free expression and free association.

The group says the law restricts how organizations and individuals can participate in the election process.

Under the law, political parties and the special interest groups known as third parties have caps on how much they can spend on political advertising during elections and in the six months leading up to the dropping of the writ starting the campaign.

It’s the first time third parties, who have been influential in past Ontario elections, have spending limits.

A spokesman for the Ministry of the Attorney General says the government believes the rules comply with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

https://ipolitics.ca/2018/01/23/union-groups-challenges-ontario-law-limiting-election-advertising/


Its an interesting discussion;

Can a government restrict how much money can be spent by an entity within the context of an election or for that matter can a government restrict how much money an individual, business, or union can donate to a political cause.

While it certainly an interesting debate, the precedent is largely already in place.
When the Federal Government banned 3rd party spending in the 1980s they were challenged by the the National Citizens Coalition in the late 1990s and lost in the Supreme Court.

Legislation was re-jiged to make it more "charter friendly" in 2000 and was upheld in front of the Supreme Court in 2004.

The current Ontario legislation is largely based on the same system the Federal Liberals put on place early in the 2000s and likely done in such a manner to have that precedent on its side.

However the arguments will be interesting.



it really make you wonder what there arguments will be ? no one is saying the unions can't endorse a specific candidate or can't oppose a candidate . they could still send out a mass email to there members on political issues . they could still appear at campaign rallies or political events .

the law seems to simply limit the amount of $cash that can be spent during an election , mostly on tv or radio ads . they had spent more than some of the political parties last election .

I think there clearly needs to be some restrictions in Ontario , as the unions got too crazy in the past , its one thing to be involved with the election and another to intentionally try and swing the outcome , I don't see why the unions need to spend $millions every election just to smear 1 specific political party or why they'd feel they have a right to do this
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that's right, RCO. There's no way you can have effective campaign finance rules without defining who gets to campaign, and keeping all other groups out of the discussion. The only way they have of enforcing is by matching expenses to revenues.
If 'third parties' can buy advertising that makes the case for that party, then it's just a disguised donation. Otherwise, the rules are meaningless because their intent can be so easily evaded.

Other voices in support of one party or another have to be banned or treated as a donation to the campaign, and come under those limits there. (Unions and some companies pressure employees to give the max and then repay them in some way.)

Beyond running ads, unions will still be able to provide 'volunteers' to work on local campaigns, and nobody has to know if they were paid or not.
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