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RCO





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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conservative party uncovers fraudulent members after O'Leary warns of vote rigging



Canadian Press

Friday, March 17th, 2017





The federal Conservative party has removed 1,351 people from its membership rolls following a review sparked by leadership hopeful Kevin O’Leary’s accusation that one of his rivals has been engaging in widespread fraud and vote-rigging.

Those individuals will no longer be eligible to vote in the party’s leadership contest.

After an expedited review, the party says it found the now-cancelled memberships were purchased through two IP addresses and were not paid for by the individual members, contrary to party rules.

The party couldn’t determine which leadership campaign or campaigns were behind the scheme since the memberships were purchased anonymously through...

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/03/17.....e-rigging/
Progressive Tory





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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully we find out who which campaign signed them up.
RCO





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trost adds his voice to call for further investigation into voter fraud

1,351 fraudulent CPC memberships uncovered



Ainslie Cruickshank

Sunday, March 19th, 2017



Conservative leadership hopeful Brad Trost wants to know who’s responsible for the purchase of more than 1,300 fraudulent party memberships with pre-paid credit cards.

In a fundraising email to supporters early Sunday morning, Trost said the party’s move to cancel the fraudulent memberships “is a good FIRST step in protecting the credibility of our party and the integrity of our leadership election process, but it is only a first step.”

Now he wants the Leadership Election Organizing Committee and the party headquarters to continue their investigation and find out who is responsible for the membership fraud.

“Party members have a...

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/03/19.....ter-fraud/
RCO





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

O'Leary wants party to get to bottom of membership fraud

O’Leary says he doesn’t know who is behind membership “fraud”


Kyle Duggan


Saturday, March 18th, 2017


Conservative leadership candidate Kevin O'Leary gives a talk at Carleton University in Ottawa, Saturday March 18. Organizers estimated just under 300 turned up for the event. Photo by Kyle Duggan, iPolitics

Conservative leadership candidate Kevin O’Leary says he doesn’t know who is behind signing up fraudulent Conservative memberships, but he wants the party to get to the bottom of it.

“Nobody knows who’s behind it right now,” O’Leary told reporters in Ottawa Saturday. “Hopefully they’ll figure it out.”

“We don’t want the taint of fraud over this leadership race,” he said. “I have no idea who’s done this. All I know is clearly there’s fraud, and they are rooting it out and shining the light of transparency on it.”

O’Leary stumped at Carleton University Saturday, bringing his leadership campaign briefly back...

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/03/18.....hip-fraud/
Progressive Tory





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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are people's thoughts on Bernier?

Bernier is now perceived as being one of the two front-runners, along with O'Leary. I don't think we've spoken much about him on here though.

I've always been a fan and previously thought that he was someone who I'd support for CPC leader. However, I do have many doubts about him that continue to grow.


Tories may very well like his economic policies but I'm not sure how policies like stopping health transfers to the provinces will play out to the electorate. Bernier has also been saying that if he wins the policies he has promoted will be the ones he will campaign on in 2019. All candidates have promoted a variety of policies but I think many of them still want the membership to have a say in the next platform. I don't get that sense from Bernier, it seems as though on many policies it's his way or the highway.

While I do like his libertarian streak I fear he lacks the pragmatism needed to appeal to enough of the electorate to secure us a victory.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progressive Tory wrote:
What are people's thoughts on Bernier?

Bernier is now perceived as being one of the two front-runners, along with O'Leary. I don't think we've spoken much about him on here though.

I've always been a fan and previously thought that he was someone who I'd support for CPC leader. However, I do have many doubts about him that continue to grow.


Tories may very well like his economic policies but I'm not sure how policies like stopping health transfers to the provinces will play out to the electorate. Bernier has also been saying that if he wins the policies he has promoted will be the ones he will campaign on in 2019. All candidates have promoted a variety of policies but I think many of them still want the membership to have a say in the next platform. I don't get that sense from Bernier, it seems as though on many policies it's his way or the highway.

While I do like his libertarian streak I fear he lacks the pragmatism needed to appeal to enough of the electorate to secure us a victory.


I like 80% of what he is proposing.
However his policies make him an easy target for the opposition to just decimate.

"He wants the Rich to be able to go to the front of the line in Hospitals"

"He wants to lure medical professionals away from the public system with more money which puts your family at risk"

Even though from my perspective it takes many out of the queue in the Public System, allows the Private Sector to build medical infrastructure that legislation would no doubt allow the public system to use and would allow Canada to retain some of its domestic Doctors and Nurses rather than losing them abroad to more money.

Their headline is easier to wrap your head around than the reality of it all.

Then there is the tax plan which is incredible;
http://www.maximebernier.com/nr_income_tax_cuts

It would result in everyone paying less taxes;
However the LPC will attack that pay saying "The 1%" will reap the benefits.

Which they should as they paid 21% of all income tax collected in 2014;
Its easy to focus on what "they" get rather than what "you" get.
The optics are horrid to the general public.

Think of the attack on the GST cut by a factor of 50.

Eliminating Capital Gains?

Imagine a world where I could keep the money I made off of money I invested that I had already paid taxes on?

Like a TFSA x 100000000

Brilliant Plan;

However even if the average family would likely benefit from a retirement planning perspective, as you could simply keep any revenue your retirement savings generated tax free

The focus would yet again be on "The Rich being able to buy another ivory backscratcher" and not the fact that every family would have more money in their pocket.

As I said;
I like him.

However IMO he is utterly unelectable in a General.
Progressive Tory





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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's how I feel. I like many of his policies I just don't see how they're workable in an election, and some probably go a bit far for me.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progressive Tory wrote:
That's how I feel. I like many of his policies I just don't see how they're workable in an election, and some probably go a bit far for me.


Two tax brackets would be pretty sweet though.... :)
Progressive Tory





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
Progressive Tory wrote:
That's how I feel. I like many of his policies I just don't see how they're workable in an election, and some probably go a bit far for me.


Two tax brackets would be pretty sweet though.... :)


I don't think that idea would be too hard to sell. The problem is, Bernier can only deliver on a promise like that by following through with other promises to dramatically shrink the size of government.
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheaters should be kicked out: Lisa Raitt

Lisa Raitt speaks during the Conservative leadership debate in Edmonton on Tuesday, Feb. 28, 2017....



Stephanie Levitz, THE CANADIAN PRESS
Mar 20, 2017
, Last Updated: 9:17 PM ET


OTTAWA — Arguments and allegations of improper membership sales are roiling the crowded Conservative leadership race as tensions escalate between rivals before next week’s rapidly approaching deadline to sign up new members.

Would-be leader Lisa Raitt has become the latest to wade into the controversy, calling on the party to do more to protect the integrity of the process as the clock ticks down to next Tuesday’s cut-off date.

Cheaters should be expelled and their campaigns heavily fined, Raitt said Monday in the wake of an internal party investigation wiping more 1,300 people off the rolls after it was determined they hadn’t paid for their own cards.

“Cheaters and rule breakers who do this discourage the involvement of both our longstanding and new party members. It makes a mockery of their commitments and corrupts the process,” Raitt said in a statement.

“It unnecessarily exposes the Conservative party to risk and ridicule, significant sanctions from Elections Canada and undermines our credibility to Canadians.”

The party was unable to verify which campaigns were behind the illicit membership sales, noting that the forms were submitted anonymously through their website.

Party spokesman Cory Hann said the party is continuing to review its lists to make sure the rules are followed.

Contenders have until March 28 to sign up members in order for them to be eligible to vote in the leadership contest. There are around 100,000 members presently in the party, an estimated 18,000 or so who’ve joined or renewed lapsed membership since the leadership race began last year.

Once next week’s deadline passes, each campaign receives a full membership list, and the work begins in earnest not just to lock in their own support, but snatch it from other campaigns. And with a ranked ballot voting process, the race is as much for the second, third and fourth spots on the ballot as it is for No. 1.

Presumed front-runners Maxime Bernier and Kevin O’Leary have been trading barbs over the membership issue since last week, when the O’Leary campaign went public with allegations of vote-rigging. While O’Leary didn’t specifically name campaigns he believed were involved in the problem, suspicion initially centred around Bernier’s camp.

Team Bernier fired back, calling O’Leary desperate providing an affidavit to the Globe and Mail from O’Leary campaign staff suggesting they’d been concocting a scheme to pay for people’s membership. O’Leary denied those allegations.

Raitt urged the party to dig deeper into the list to root out any further problems immediately; O’Leary called for a full audit of the rolls once the membership deadline has passed.

When that deadline comes and goes, it’s likely things will get a little nastier, said Deepak Obhrai, one of the 14 contenders for the Conservative crown.

“It may become a little aggressive and that’s all right,” Obhrai said. “People are working very hard for this.”

Obhrai blamed the membership fracas over “backroom boys” seeking to become influential players in the campaigns, but also a casualty of the party’s changes to membership rules last year.

A hike in membership fees to $15 and requiring payment by cheque or credit card complicated the process, he said, making it difficult for members to sign up on their own.

http://cnews.canoe.com/CNEWS/C.....11901.html
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When does the dead-weight start dropping off the ticket?
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( there is another cpc debate in Ontario , no surprise O'Leary and Leitch are not going to be there , both have been chronic debate skippers )


Conservative Leadership Candidates Face Off Friday

By Miranda ChantMarch 24, 2017 2:00am

It will be standing room only when Conservative leadership hopefuls go head-to-head in a southwestern Ontario debate on Friday.

Ten of the fourteen leadership candidates will take the stage at the Komoka Wellness And Recreation Centre on Tunks Lane in Komoka at 7pm. Candidates not attending include Kevin O’Leary, Kellie Leitch, Andrew Saxton, and Deepak Obhrai.

Lambton-Kent-Middlesex Conservative MP Bev Shipley is hosting the debate, the only one to be held in the region before party members cast their votes on May 27.

While those in the audience will not be able to ask questions during the debate, area residents were encouraged to submit questions online before hand.

“We’ve had a wide variety of questions submitted, so there will be diversity,” said Shipley. “There will be questions around immigration, small businesses, agriculture, and the newly released budget. Each candidate will have an opportunity to answer and then there will be a rebuttal opportunity.”

Based on pre-registration numbers, Shipley said they are expecting the facility to reach its 480 person capacity. Although an effort will be made to accommodate those who show up at the door.

Shipley believes the number of candidates in the race is one of the factors driving interest in the debate.

“One of the difficult things about this leadership race is that there are 14 candidates. One of the great things about it is it shows a great confidence, that these individuals are very confident people,” said Shipley. “This debate gives another opportunity for more people to hear and try to determine out of that large number of candidates who they see as the best person to lead the party.”

Doors open at 6:30pm.

http://blackburnnews.com/chath.....ff-friday/
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( there was also another mainstreet poll that seemed to indicated bernier had dropped a bit and leitch had risen , O'Leary still in first but didn't gain any ground )



Leitch rises, Bernier slides: Tory leadership poll

Though still in third, Bernier at lowest first-ballot support since Mainstreet started tracking


BJ Siekierski

Tuesday, March 21st, 2017



Kellie Leitch saw her first-choice support among Conservative party members almost double last week, according to the latest iPolitics CPC Leadership Tracker, powered by Mainstreet Research.

Maxime Bernier, meanwhile, dropped to his lowest first-choice support since Mainstreet started tracking the race.

From March 15 to 19, Mainstreet reached 1,105 members and found — with a margin of error of +/- 2.8 per cent, 19 times out of 20 — Kevin O’Leary was the top candidate for 22.10 per cent of members, down from 23.65 per cent last week.

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/03/21.....ship-poll/
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
Progressive Tory wrote:
What are people's thoughts on Bernier?

Bernier is now perceived as being one of the two front-runners, along with O'Leary. I don't think we've spoken much about him on here though.

I've always been a fan and previously thought that he was someone who I'd support for CPC leader. However, I do have many doubts about him that continue to grow.


Tories may very well like his economic policies but I'm not sure how policies like stopping health transfers to the provinces will play out to the electorate. Bernier has also been saying that if he wins the policies he has promoted will be the ones he will campaign on in 2019. All candidates have promoted a variety of policies but I think many of them still want the membership to have a say in the next platform. I don't get that sense from Bernier, it seems as though on many policies it's his way or the highway.

While I do like his libertarian streak I fear he lacks the pragmatism needed to appeal to enough of the electorate to secure us a victory.


I like 80% of what he is proposing.
However his policies make him an easy target for the opposition to just decimate.

"He wants the Rich to be able to go to the front of the line in Hospitals"

"He wants to lure medical professionals away from the public system with more money which puts your family at risk"

Even though from my perspective it takes many out of the queue in the Public System, allows the Private Sector to build medical infrastructure that legislation would no doubt allow the public system to use and would allow Canada to retain some of its domestic Doctors and Nurses rather than losing them abroad to more money.

Their headline is easier to wrap your head around than the reality of it all.

Then there is the tax plan which is incredible;
http://www.maximebernier.com/nr_income_tax_cuts

It would result in everyone paying less taxes;
However the LPC will attack that pay saying "The 1%" will reap the benefits.

Which they should as they paid 21% of all income tax collected in 2014;
Its easy to focus on what "they" get rather than what "you" get.
The optics are horrid to the general public.

Think of the attack on the GST cut by a factor of 50.

Eliminating Capital Gains?

Imagine a world where I could keep the money I made off of money I invested that I had already paid taxes on?

Like a TFSA x 100000000

Brilliant Plan;

However even if the average family would likely benefit from a retirement planning perspective, as you could simply keep any revenue your retirement savings generated tax free

The focus would yet again be on "The Rich being able to buy another ivory backscratcher" and not the fact that every family would have more money in their pocket.

As I said;
I like him.

However IMO he is utterly unelectable in a General.


Full disclosure: Cosmo also thought that Justin Trudeau was an unelectable joke when he first became leader of the Liberals. I, too, was sceptical, but when I noticed that he was a successful fund-raiser, I began to worry.

I don't think the argument to 'electability' is a good one, simply because the search committee doesn't know how to define and identify electability when it's sitting in their laps.

We should look on his policy choices as only indicative of the way he thinks. There may be flaws in what is, after all, only the plan of a few put forward to rally other like-minded people to their side.

Can he 'sell' as well as -- say -- Kelly Leitch? Lisa Raitt? I think so. Can he put his ideas over as well as Kevin O'Leary? That's yet to be shown.

But he's from Quebec, a real quebecois and a real country politician. There's huge potential in that. What if he can swing 30 or so Quebec seats into the Conservative column?

This ought to be a factor in this decision. If the Conservative party is ever to make inroads into Quebec, it has to show that it can be trusted over the longer term. The classic Liberal Party of MacKenzie King rotated the leadership of the party between English-speaking and French-speaking successfully, and always let a deputy-leader of the other linguistic group have a veto on policy. You may not like to hear this, but it was the organizational form of an agreement between English-speaking and French-speaking -- until Trudeau senior ended all of that, with his own bilingual wonderfulness.

Since then, the most important characteristic of PMs is their ability to show a membership in Quebec culture. Trudeau had it, and Mulroney had it. And Trudeau jr has it.

If you look at the leadership that way, perhaps Bernier has assets that haven't been considered,
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:

Full disclosure: Cosmo also thought that Justin Trudeau was an unelectable joke when he first became leader of the Liberals. I, too, was sceptical, but when I noticed that he was a successful fund-raiser, I began to worry.


I absolutely own that.
Also, never stated that Bernier was a joke, I stated that he was utterly unelectable.

Bugs wrote:
I don't think the argument to 'electability' is a good one, simply because the search committee doesn't know how to define and identify electability when it's sitting in their laps.


In some case, yes.
However I am fairly confident that his plan to create two tier healthcare would be the sole and lone issue of the election he would ultimately lose.

That aside;
His party support is weak. A Provincial leader can get around that because he/she can visit every riding, A Federal leader less so.

Both those items are huge issues.

Bugs wrote:
But he's from Quebec, a real quebecois and a real country politician. There's huge potential in that. What if he can swing 30 or so Quebec seats into the Conservative column?


I would say that is wonderful;
But I would also say that you need 140 more to form the slimmest of majorities and I am more concerned with the path to 60-70 seats in Ontario or 50-60 in Western Canada, heck even the dozen you need in Eastern Canada.

Bugs wrote:
Since then, the most important characteristic of PMs is their ability to show a membership in Quebec culture. Trudeau had it, and Mulroney had it. And Trudeau jr has it.


And where did the membership in Quebec Culture leave the former of the two PMs you mentioned above?

Trudeau Senior aggravated with the "kitchen accord" and saw him slide out the back door to see his party under John Turner suffer one of the most significant defeats in election history by losing 95 seats and 57 in Quebec alone. It took the Liberals 35 years to get the majority of seats in Quebec again (From 1980 to 2015)

Then we move onto Mulroney whose attempt to dance on the head of the pin that is please your base out West and Quebec at the same time resulted in the ruling party losing 154 seats in one night, the birth of the BQ and the rise of the Reform party of which it took more than a decade of Liberal Governance to recover from.

Those two Prime Ministers had their political careers end like the final scene in Thelma and Louise.

Since the PQ Quebec has become the Rumpelstiltskin of Canadian Politics, you make a bad deal on the front-end to get power then pay the price down the line when they come to collect.

Bugs wrote:
If you look at the leadership that way, perhaps Bernier has assets that haven't been considered,


I think Bernier is the most principled Conservative running;
By miles.

If I felt for a moment he had the means and the method to be able to sell his plan nationally, pull a "Patrick Brown" and hit every riding and sit in every coffee shop and win Canadians over he would be at the top of my ballot in a heartbeat.

However he hasn't shown that yet.
He may but he hasn't
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