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reidjr





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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
reidjr wrote:


I don't think Harper could do much more then he has done as for the protesters i see it much like Quebec students started out good then lost focus.


Agreed;
This is like Occupy, a mess of issues which no one understands because of a total lack of focus and direction by its organizers.

Most people however understand the bullet-points of the Audit.

After a few railway blockades, 401 blockades, and whatever other chaos these folks want to cause the voting public will turn on them and the opposition gets left with this on their plate,


The avg natives do have some very serious issues and yes i fully support there cause but if you look at who is protesting it does not seem to be the avg native but the higher ups and maybe some Canadians who are bent on making this a anti Harper agenda.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reidjr wrote:

The avg natives do have some very serious issues and yes i fully support there cause but if you look at who is protesting it does not seem to be the avg native but the higher ups and maybe some Canadians who are bent on making this a anti Harper agenda.


Very serious issues;
You have 80% of $104 million dollars given to a single Reserve which cannot be properly accounted for.

That is a major problem effecting honest families on that Reserve.

The problem is that this is another issue which is a legit problem being hijacked by the Left as another "Harper Bad" opportunity.

There are 1900 people on that Reserve who are not getting the help they are entitled to and the left is backing the woman who is taking that bread from their mouths.

This is one of those situation where the NDP and Liberals would rather have those nearly 2000 folks continue to get screwed by this potentially corrupt chief and administrators on the slim opportunity for a "Gotcha" moment.

The fact that after an independent audit the NDP is still not at a minimum questioning the "noble nature" of Chief Spence shows me that their concern has everything to do with politics and nothing to do with helping a single person on that Reserve.
reidjr





Joined: 07 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
reidjr wrote:

The avg natives do have some very serious issues and yes i fully support there cause but if you look at who is protesting it does not seem to be the avg native but the higher ups and maybe some Canadians who are bent on making this a anti Harper agenda.


Very serious issues;
You have 80% of $104 million dollars given to a single Reserve which cannot be properly accounted for.

That is a major problem effecting honest families on that Reserve.

The problem is that this is another issue which is a legit problem being hijacked by the Left as another "Harper Bad" opportunity.

There are 1900 people on that Reserve who are not getting the help they are entitled to and the left is backing the woman who is taking that bread from their mouths.

This is one of those situation where the NDP and Liberals would rather have those nearly 2000 folks continue to get screwed by this potentially corrupt chief and administrators on the slim opportunity for a "Gotcha" moment.

The fact that after an independent audit the NDP is still not at a minimum questioning the "noble nature" of Chief Spence shows me that their concern has everything to do with politics and nothing to do with helping a single person on that Reserve.


Many of the comments i have seen on a few sites are not about the issues the natives face but how bad Harper is and if anyone brings up the real issues there called racist.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reidjr wrote:

Many of the comments i have seen on a few sites are not about the issues the natives face but how bad Harper is and if anyone brings up the real issues there called racist.


Which is exactly the problem I have with the left.
This is some trumped up "scandal of the week" they are notorious for blowing out of proportion under some small chance of traction, these are peoples lives.

The left is allowing every person on that reserve to live in deplorable conditions for every day that they back Chief Spence.
reidjr





Joined: 07 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
reidjr wrote:

Many of the comments i have seen on a few sites are not about the issues the natives face but how bad Harper is and if anyone brings up the real issues there called racist.


Which is exactly the problem I have with the left.
This is some trumped up "scandal of the week" they are notorious for blowing out of proportion under some small chance of traction, these are peoples lives.

The left is allowing every person on that reserve to live in deplorable conditions for every day that they back Chief Spence.


If occupy type protesters join and turn this into a anti Harper/ communism type protest/riot would the Natives stand for it or push back my guess is it would result in more or less civil war.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lorne Gunter clarifies the legal uncertainties that limit the lower courts, and leave police administrators wondering what the hell they are supposed to do ...

The fact is the native people think they have a separate sovereignty under the Queen. And that's a fact.

I have tried to get people to answer this question, in a different context: Are Canadian aboriginal people (a) Canadians like the rest of us; or (b) do they have a kind of 'gold card' citizenship that gives them extra rights based on their 'race'; or are they subjects of an entirely different nation?

Try to get one of the trained minds to explain that to you and why its consistent with Section 15 of the Charter.

We have a Supreme Court that is supposedly enforcing Charter requirements that all Canadians be treated equally ... but is rubber-stamping a legal process that seems to make Canadians responsible for the expenses of native people, but which increasingly forgives native Canadians from the responsiibilities of citizenship, including paying taxes. And it is all based on racial claims!!!

Lorne shows how these deceits, half-truths, whatever they are, operate to mislead the natives in their protests.

Quote:
'Two canoes'? Uh, no: Non-aboriginals largely paid for both canoes and do most of the paddling in each, too

Once, after I’d written about the standoff at Caledonia, Ont. — in which a group of Mohawk squatters took over a subdivision, intimidated local residents, blockaded roads and assaulted police until the Ontario government bought them the subdivision and gave it to them — an aboriginal activist wrote to my editors insisting I didn’t understand the relationship between First Nations and the rest of Canada.

Aboriginals were not like other Canadians, she insisted. Their communities were not just ordinary communities. “We are like two canoes together in the same stream, each separate but sharing the same current.”

That may sound meaningful, even poetic, but it is largely rubbish.

If aboriginal and non-aboriginal Canadians are like two canoes, how come we non-aboriginals largely paid for both canoes and do most of the paddling in each, too?

This separate-but-equal notion is one of the two misconceptions behind the Idle No More movement. Indeed, it is one of two misconceptions — the other being that aboriginal treaties are with the Queen, not Ottawa — behind most long-standing aboriginal grievances. Both assumptions, frankly, are silly, even if, during the 1990s, the then-ultra-liberal Supreme Court hinted that at the very least the special status of aboriginals and their communities existed.

Unfortunately, though, thanks to political correctness and the fear among non-aboriginal commentators of being branded as racists if they disagree, these misconceptions have been allowed to flourish unchallenged for 40 years. So now hundreds of thousands of aboriginals believe the myths to be true and are increasingly angry that the federal government will not act on them.

The “two canoes” theory is behind the misconception that Canada’s 630 aboriginal bands are not communities but rather sovereign nations. As such, they should be dealt with by Ottawa not as any other collection of villages and small towns, but rather nation-to-nation. Their chiefs are to be treated as heads of state, not just so many other mewling mayors and reeves with their hands out.

One of the biggest reasons so many chiefs boycotted last Friday’s meeting between Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the Assembly of First Nations was the absence of Canada’s head of state, Gov. Gen. David Johnston. If Canada’s head of state would not be there, then the heads of state of scores of First Nations felt slighted and refused to attend.

The largest aboriginal reserve in Canada, on which a valid census has been conducted, is the Blood band in southwestern Alberta with just over 4,000 residents. Most have fewer than 600 souls. Still, for a second, let’s treat this nation-to-nation, two-canoe theory as if it were sensible.

Canada spends $5 billion a year on foreign aid. By contrast it spends $8 billion on aboriginal programs. If First Nations insist on being treated like nations rather than hamlets, villages and towns, then let’s give them foreign aid rather than dropping about $13,000 per aboriginal per year, as the federal government does now.

Equally, in Canada the Crown means the federal government legally and constitutionally. Idle No More radicals may insist the Crown means the Queen, but it hasn’t meant that since long before 1867. However, if Idle protesters and leaders believe their treaties are directly with the monarch, let them ask her for the $8 billion they get from the federal treasury.

Aboriginals in Canada are badly divided. In one camp are the pragmatists, such as AFN National Chief Shawn Atleo, who want to bury the myths that feed a sense of victimhood and get on with practical solutions to raise education, employment and incomes. In the other camps are the “two canoeists.”

The future development of aboriginal Canadians depends on the pragmatists winning.
http://www.calgarysun.com/2013.....n-each-too
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