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Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:

My hope is the Hudak that existed during the Harris years is the guy who comes out if he is elected.

He made Harris look like Mulcair, and I would said without question he was the most fiscally conservative PC MPP in caucus by miles.

However the second he started running for leader we started seeing this "family values" guy that really puzzled me?

He is a union buster and a tax slasher;
The type of Premier that would have public sector unions begging for Harris.

The opposition federally accused Harper of a "hidden agenda", my hope is that Hudak in fact has one and we see it soon.


Glad to see this point of view. The thing is, Hudak was considered a prohibitive favourite to win the election, and followed the playbook. He just layed back and let the voters come to him. The problem was that McGuinty's narcissism and lust for power led him to throw 100's of $millions away on saving the 905ers from having a power plant foisted upon them.

Some people -- not me -- think this is good politics. Now we see the consequences.

McGuinty got away with the mess he created out of Caledonia. The equally bad mess he has made out of electrical power is another -- covered up with discount, and all the rest -- he has set us up for spiralling costs in the future. (In my area of Ontario, they aree finishing off the construction of 650 wind turbines, which produces power at four times the cost of nuclear power. What people don't realize is that those wind turbines are owned by a company in Florida, and that all the power is exported to the USA at a loss!)

We can thank our useless media for covering up both of these messes for McGoof. Not just the Toronto Star, but also the CBC. They collaborated at blacking out the truth, keeping the electorate ignorant. That, in part, is Hudak's real failure. He hasn't been able to expose the OLP.

Why don't we throw the playbook away (since it hasn't been working anyway), and express the righteous indignation that these messes deserve? Complete with graphics that illustrate the pile of waste McGoof is creating.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem was that Hudak didn't effectively sell the platform.
This was also Horwath's issue.

Both opposition parties were so sure that the OLP would be turfed it appeared for the first two weeks of the campaign they all kept their powder dry and allowed the Liberals to define what the balance of the election would be about.

Hudak needs to embrace the fact that public sector unions hate him, just as Mike Harris did.
That's the first step to move in the right direction.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those unions probably aren't too enchanted with McGoof anymore, either ...

That leaves only the media on his side.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those unions probably aren't too enchanted with McGoof anymore, either ...
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Those unions probably aren't too enchanted with McGoof anymore, either ...

That leaves only the media on his side.


Let the Unions back Horwath;

The NDP has no traction outside of the 416 and a new select pockets around Ontario, their inflated Provincial number reflects something to the effect of 22 seats because they are so popular in the 416 core.

Harris basically swept the 905's after Bill 160 and all the teacher protests of the late 1990's because there isn't actually much favorable Union Sentiment there.

Hudak has been extremely effective at appealing to rural voters and non-416/905 suburban voters. He just needs to grown in the exact same fashion that Harper did over his progress in Ontario.
Progressive Tory





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems Wynne could pull this one off.
Progressive Tory





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murray is now expected to drop out and throw his support behind Wynne. I think she has a good chance of taking this thing now, but will all depend on where the no-shots will go.
machiavelli





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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PROGRESSIVE NANNY STATE FROM CRADLE TO CRAVE

Comrade McGuinty, the serial tax hiker, has relinquished Ontario ’s position as Canada ’s economic engine, and has distorted it into a fiscal and economic mediocrity resulting from his moronic expansion of spending, ever increasing debt, tax increases, regulatory overkill, and his catering to big unionism.

Rather than eliminate the $16 billion deficit, and massive debt of $ 241 billion (35% of GDP) that his train wreck is producing, comrade McGuinty continues to increase expenditures to $124 billion, an increase of 90% since 2003, as he continues to create The Socialist Republic on Ontario ; the omnipresent nanny-state controlled by union bosses.

We don’t need a serial tax hiker but a premier who would sell Crown Corporations such as The Lottery and Gaming Corp, TVO, Hydro 1 and the LCBO, lay-off tens of thousands of worthless public servants, freeze wages, and benefits of those remaining including teachers and all hospital employees for 3 years. He must also eradicate the parasitic unions and left-bias arbitrators, eliminate or privatize programs, abolish the “green energy program”, purge departments, boards, and commissions, sell highways, privatize some of the peripheral health care services as well as prisons, and insure that all entitlement programs are means tested.

Since the province doesn't have a revenue problem, but a spending problem, a fiscally responsible premier would create jobs, and stimulate the economy by cutting taxes, and cutting welfare payments by 20 per cent for all employable welfare persons . The premier appears to desire an Ontario that more resembles Greece than a fiscally prudent province.

Comrade McGuinty's fairy tale is over and he must stop implementing fiscal policies similar to those that made the Soviet Union such a great fiscal success by the end of the 1980s.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's getting out of town before the vultures come back to roost.

Remember the lying s.o.b.'s great promise? " ... I won't lower your taxes, but I won't raise them either ... "

That was only the initial lie. By the time he was through, he was promising to close all of Hydro's coal fired plants, and whatever else popped into his pointy little head.

It's the great failure of conservatives, on a par with Joe Clark's inability to keep Trudeau out of power, that they were unable to depose McGuinty before he did all this damage.

Maybe now, at last, we are done with the John Tory/Red Tory part of conservativism, stuck as it is with its own obsolete sense of social superiority, and little else.
RCO





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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i haven't paid much attention to this leadership race , i'm clueless as to who has the advantage at this point . i did notice Glen Murray dropped out this week so its down to six .

i think the eventual winner is in for a rough ride and likely to face an election at some point this year , one where its unlikely the liberals could win more than there current minority based on current polls and make up of the legislature which is pretty rural/urban divided . liberals only real strenght is in toronto and ottawa urban ridings . i can't see any of the leadership candidates winning back northern ontario or the rural/suburban pc ridings .
Bugs





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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cosmo would be the best one to handicap this race. I suspect that a lot of people feel like you and I. For one thing, whoever gets the reins is going to face all the delayed consequences of the major misjudgements of the McGuinty regime.

First of all, they are running big deficits, and it can't go on. Second, there is big dissatisfaction within the civil service, because of impending salary freezes, and the teachers being legislated back to work. Third, there are big policy decisions that just stink -- chasing green jobs -- that have a big potential to make them look like fools, in hindsight.

So the senior cabinet people took themselves out of consideration early.

This is a recent column handicapping the race.
Quote:

Scott Stinson: Low-key Ontario Liberal leadership race leaves many unanswered questions

His hair is shorter now, his glasses have thinner frames than they did in the ’90s, but Gerard Kennedy looks much the same as he did in his first swing at leading the Ontario Liberals.

He had been the clear front-runner heading into the 1996 Liberal leadership convention that Dalton McGuinty won on the fifth ballot, setting Mr. McGuinty up to become Premier of Ontario in 2003.

Mr. Kennedy, the former MPP, former MP, and former candidate for the federal Liberal leadership, is trying to walk that same come-from-behind path himself 16 years later, although by a shorter route — the winner of this month’s leadership convention at Maple Leaf Gardens will become the province’s 25th Premier.

Standing in a quiet room in the bowels of a Bay Street bank tower, following a speech to the Toronto Board of Trade on his vision for the economy, Mr. Kennedy makes no predictions as to how the race may unfold with just two weeks left.

“There’s almost no way to handicap it,” he says. “All you can see is that it’s a really competitive environment.”

Kathleen Wynne is the clear front-runner heading into the Jan. 26 convention. She leads the six-member field of candidates in endorsements, in fundraising and, crucially as party members will elect delegates to the convention this weekend, in the number of people across the province who have put themselves forward to be Wynne-supporting delegates on the first ballot. She also scored the biggest coup of the three-month campaign when Glen Murray, the former Winnipeg mayor and McGuinty cabinet member who was the seventh member of the leadership field, dropped out on Thursday to support her.

A former education minister like Mr. Kennedy, Ms. Wynne is also making no predictions.

“I have no idea how that will translate,” she says, standing in the bowels of a downtown Toronto hotel, where she’s just given a speech to the Economic Club of Canada on her vision for the economy. “A lot will happen on the convention floor, obviously. All I can say is that I’m very happy with how we’re doing.”

This is the odd thing about the the campaign to lead Ontario, a province that under Mr. McGuinty’s watch has slipped from the undisputed economic engine of the country to one that, almost inconceivably, has become a weak sister of the federation: no one knows how this thing will play out. There’s a host of reasons for that. The campaign has been quiet, dull and, thanks to the suddenness of the Premier’s October resignation, hurried. The candidates have rarely uttered a discouraging word about each other or the man they are seeking to replace, wary of the need to build broad support among party members. Then there’s the format of the convention itself — a delegated affair that puts the power in the hands of 2,500 or so party members who are free to switch allegiances after the first ballot. The candidates aren’t selling themselves to the public, but to the narrow swath of registered provincial Liberals. It makes for a race that has largely taken place out of the public eye.

And all of it combines to mean that, when the next Premier of Ontario is crowned, most Ontarians will be surprised to learn who it is.

The race has had one other strange characteristic: there’s been little talk of electability

The tepid race was predestined from the start, which is a bit unfortunate for a party more than nine years in government and, to use the phrase uttered by Mr. McGuinty when he issued his shock resignation in mid-October, was in serious need of renewal. The Premier’s decision to couple his resignation to a prorogation of the legislature — the shuttering of the provincial parliament was about as popular as Axe body spray in a crowded elevator — forced the party executive to come up with a leadership timetable that was short on time, the better to get a new premier in office and legislative business resumed. But that meant the leadership contest would have to be conducted under the party’s existing rules — it couldn’t rewrite the constitution on the fly.

When Greg Sorbara held a press conference at Queen’s Park in November to encourage Ontarians to take out Liberal party memberships, he admitted to a clutch of reporters that these new Liberals would be a lot more empowered if the leader was being chosen under a one-member-one-vote system — as is now done with the major federal parties — and that a contest of that sort would offer a lot more in the way of party renewal. Which was supposed to be the idea. But, hey, no time.

So, the weeks have ticked by. Ms. Wynne and Sandra Pupatello, both long-time cabinet ministers in the McGuinty government — though the latter quit politics in 2011 for a Bay Street job — entered the face as early favourites. Ms. Wynne was characterized as centre-left; Ms. Pupatello centre-right. Mr. Kennedy, who has a national profile but hasn’t been with the Ontario Liberals since 2005, was the relative outsider. Former War Child of Canada president Eric Hoskins and Mr. Murray, neither of whom were at Queen’s Park prior to 2009, were long shots, but possible compromise candidates. Charles Sousa and Harinder Takhar, both MPPs from the suburbs west of Toronto, were more ardently pro-business.

With the race nearing its end, little has changed those preconceptions. Through six debates, which were more like friendly fireside chats without the fire to sit beside, the candidates have complemented each other’s ideas and policy planks. Since support from rival camps will ultimately be needed to win the contest, no one wants to be too prickly.

The race has had one other strange characteristic: there’s been little talk of electability. Candidates have talked about visions for their time as Premier, but the first order of business will be holding on to the job in a minority government. Would Ms. Wynne be able to distance herself from the recent McGuinty government scandals? Would Ms. Pupatello be able to steal back enough votes from the NDP? Would Mr. Kennedy’s higher profile help in a general election? Can anyone repair the party’s tattered relationship with organized labour?

These discussions aren’t happening on the public stage. Perhaps they’ll take place on the convention floor.
http://fullcomment.nationalpos.....questions/


Wynne is the woman who beat John Tory in his own riding. She's probably a crackerjack administrator. She was a practitioner of the black art of education in her prior life, and would be a distinct step up from Dalton. As would Pupatello.

Kennedy? Who knows?
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets put this into context;
Many (and I mean most) of the folks who tossed their hat into the ring did so solely for position within the new regime of the OLP.

McGunity and Co had been running the show since 1996,
The logical passing of the torch would have been Dwight Duncan but instead he ran off into the night creating the same sort of power vacuum the Federal Liberals saw in 2006.

The old guard is gone without a successor and now the folks in the kings court are rising up to lay claims to royal title and land.

This is now a race between Sandra Pupatello & Katherine Wynne.

I think as I look down the ticket there are far more folks more inline with Wynne then with Pupatello which would lead me to believe that Wynne will be Ontario's next Premier.

The question for me which no one seems to have answered is if Wynne wins;
Will Pupatello and Kennedy seek election as MPP's in the next election?

It was asked of Bob Rae in 2006 and I think its only reasonable to be asked now.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gerrard Kennedy is an interesting case. The reason that the Liberals went to McGuinty was to prevent him (Kennedy) from getting the leadership. Kennedy had been the public face of a local food bank, and a couple of years later, he was contending to lead the opposition to the fray against the newly-elected Mike Harris.

Kennedy was a rising star, but his time had not yet come. If Kennedy had been able to subordinate himself to someone like Duncan, Duncan would probably have become premier some day, and Kennedy would have had the opportunity to get some 'seasoning'.

It didn't happen.

After losing, Kennedy hung around until he saw an opportunity in federal politics. He ended up doing to Bob Rae what the provincial Liberals had done to him ...

How's he being received this time?
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Gerrard Kennedy is an interesting case. The reason that the Liberals went to McGuinty was to prevent him (Kennedy) from getting the leadership. Kennedy had been the public face of a local food bank, and a couple of years later, he was contending to lead the opposition to the fray against the newly-elected Mike Harris.

Kennedy was a rising star, but his time had not yet come. If Kennedy had been able to subordinate himself to someone like Duncan, Duncan would probably have become premier some day, and Kennedy would have had the opportunity to get some 'seasoning'.

It didn't happen.

After losing, Kennedy hung around until he saw an opportunity in federal politics. He ended up doing to Bob Rae what the provincial Liberals had done to him ...

How's he being received this time?


The Kennedy and McGunity camps were basically polar opposites in 1996;
And this was basically exposing the rift in the party that still exists that no one talks about because they kept winning.

McGunity cobbled together a victory on the backs of lesser candidates who in some cases ultimately got screwed over in the end (Annamarie Castrilli comes to mind losing her riding nomination in the shuffling of great riding amalgamation of 1999)

Dalton was 4th coming out of the first ballot and added something like 800 delegates between the 1st and 5th ballot where Kennedy only added around 300 in the same span and was unable to even retain half of Duncan's delegates even though Duncan endorsed Kennedy.

The feeling was after the Fourth Ballot that McGunity would be dropped and he would support Joseph Cordiano, but much to the surprise of most McGunity ended up picking up a respectable amount of Duncan's delegates to finish second.

There are two vastly different camps within the OLP, the 416 Liberals and everyone else.

In 96 McGunity was able to build a coalition of everyone else, in 2013 there simply are not enough people to support Pupatello (IMO) to a victory.

Kennedy's perception amongst the true Liberal believers at least from conversations I have had are generally similar.

The campaign is viewed as opportunistic.

Where has he been since May 2011? Why didn't he run in Parkdale—High Park in October 2011? Will he run if he isn't selected leader?

The common theme is playing the "what if game"
He runs in a riding (Parkdale—High Park) in 2011 which the NDP won by around 3000 votes and wins and we are talking a majority government.

The assumption was he would swoop in and win as the known commodity, that doesn't look to be remotely the case anymore. He appear to be a distant third, hoping to gather some support from folks under him who (IMO) will likely support Pupatello creating the same situation as we saw in 2006 where Kennedy gets to be Wynne's kingmaker but basically ends up in the same spot he was in after losing in 1996.
Progressive Tory





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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pupatello's victory seems all but certain. The only way I see her losing this now is if Sousa makes a surprising decision to not go to her on the convention floor.
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Dalton McGuinty stepping down as Ontario premier

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