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Should Gary Nicholls, the CBC's new anti-Harper-stooge-on-demand be de-listed from Blogging Tories?
Yes
20%
 20%  [ 6 ]
No
80%
 80%  [ 24 ]
Total Votes : 30

Author Message
Edmund Onward James





Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 1317
Reputation: 55
votes: 2

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hear! Hear Yoshi. Expose yourself FoxtrotBravo. Who are you?

The same with machiavelli (machevallian is someone who is deceitful and cunning) who probably doesn't know where Niccolo really stood. They read The Prince and do not realize it is fiction, and iimaginary ideal society. Not a proper model. However...

Nietzsche read it. Hitler read Nietzsche's works and was influenced.
yoshi





Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 59
Reputation: 40Reputation: 40Reputation: 40Reputation: 40

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Foxtrotbravo


So you say Mr. Nicholls should be delisted because he makes money at being a pundant , who on occasion disagrees with our Priminister??

Be careful Foxtrot, would you suggest we ban people like Monty Solberg Daryl Wolk, for example who are pundants and who have appeared on CBC.

I could probably go down the blogroll and find many who have appeared on many networks including the Founder of the Boggingtories Stephen Taylor, who have not always agreed with the party or PSH.

So, no I think we all can learn things from each other. Debate is good and welcome.

If you think Nicholls should go can we also list and vote for others that we deem not to be worthy. ? Just saying
Kerry Forrest





Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 15
Reputation: 18.6Reputation: 18.6

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

De listing someone if his views of the conservative movement is different from the conservative party's views is wrong.

A conservative value I hold dear is freedom of expression. GERRY is welcome to express himself freely.

Unless the blogging tories are not a nexus of conservative bloggers, but a nexus of Conservative Party bloggers, there is no reason to remove Gerry.

I am a member of the Conservative Party, but I do not blog for them, but for what I believe are my conservative beliefs.

The party is not perfect, or is it immune to criticism from both its opponents and its supporters. But by censurering views from the conversation, it will never be all it can be.


PS By profiting by his efforts you express disdain towards Gerry. Another conservative value I hold dear is the ability to us your own efforts to enrich your own life. Free Market Capitalism and all that.
Ron Eapper





Joined: 22 Jan 2011
Posts: 1


PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:08 pm    Post subject: Absolutely Not Reply with quote

Gerry is a friend of mine. he is a smart guy and he is conservative. I don't always agree with him, but it is ludicrous to stop him from blogging with the BT's. This whole exercise seems fairly silly to me. Dr Roy
Craig Smith





Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 244
Reputation: 42Reputation: 42Reputation: 42Reputation: 42

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Gary Nicholls should be de-listed from Blogging Tories Reply with quote

JDot wrote:
We don't stifle speech.


De-listing him from a private organization has nothing to do with free speech. BT is a conservative network by definition and anyone who doesn't meet the criteria should not be a member.
FoxtrotBravo





Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 108
Reputation: 105.1
votes: 2

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kerry Forrest wrote:
De listing someone if his views of the conservative movement is different from the conservative party's views is wrong.


Hi Kerry. You and I totally agree here: de-listing someone who merely disagrees with the party is very wrong. But de-listing someone who's sole marketability to the media, and interest from the media, is their shamelessness in repeating private conversations with the PM, is not wrong, it's warranted. At least in my humble opinion.
chrisreid





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 182
Reputation: 64.1
votes: 5
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So let's see. A man who has differing views from a political party and is making a profit from airing his views is viewed on a blogging website as somehow being bad? Isn't the whole idea of blogging tories to be a forum for people to air their ideas, whether they be libertarian, social conservative, or paleoconservatives? Gerry Nichols isn't doing anything different than 90% of people on here, which is opening his mouth and giving an opinion. He's just found a way to profit from it. He shouldn't be punished for being an entrepreneur.
Seems like some people on here have a classic case of tall-poppy syndrome.
Stephen





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 645
Reputation: 72.9
votes: 5
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My vote is to keep him listed on Blogging Tories.

Gerry's a conservative and does push the government from the right. And this is a good thing.

I agree on the private conversations element, but this just alienates oneself from one's friends, not from the movement.

I was somewhat shocked to hear Evan Solomon grant (and to see Gerry accept) the description as "former head of the National Citizens Coalition". Gerry never held this position.

I think the media's interest in this story reminds me of when the Queen's/Prince Charles' butler/maid/gardener breaks trust and sensationalizes a former professional relationship to sell books. Pity for the fame seekers though... the Canadian book market isn't that big! (not the perfect analogy, but Nicholls was subservient to Harper at the NCC)

I asked Gerry the other day if he wanted to continue to be "tainted" by the Blogging Tories brand since he dislikes Harper and the CPC so much... he declined. I guess when it comes to web hits (and wider attention), the blurring of one's principles can THEN be justified.

Gerry's a nice guy and I wish him well. But when your ideological enemies are encouraging you, you need to wonder how many converts to conservatism you're winning among the readers of the Toronto Star, who have suddenly taken an interest in not your ideas but your tone.

(my personal opinion and not that of the NCC, thanks)
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 539
Reputation: 93.9Reputation: 93.9
votes: 3
Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I joined the BT in September 2006. I stopped posting and contributing to the threads because it became quite the CPC echo chamber. The man crush that some people have on Harper got nauseating. Don't get me wrong, I respect Harper and hope that he gets his majority, it is just that I liked the debate in the old days. I still troll once in a while, but the BT is not what it once was. Gerry to a large extent fills that void. What is wrong with reminding Harper that there is still some of us to the right of centre? Keep him around, I hope he stays.
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 2262
Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9
votes: 8
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palomino_pony wrote:
I joined the BT in September 2006. I stopped posting and contributing to the threads because it became quite the CPC echo chamber. The man crush that some people have on Harper got nauseating. Don't get me wrong, I respect Harper and hope that he gets his majority, it is just that I liked the debate in the old days. I still troll once in a while, but the BT is not what it once was. Gerry to a large extent fills that void. What is wrong with reminding Harper that there is still some of us to the right of centre? Keep him around, I hope he stays.


I disagree with you here. I too have been a member here since September 07, 2006 and I think that while this website presents a very broad spectrum of conservative view points - it is a conservative site.

What is the modern Conservative in Canada? It isn't the conservative party of the 1970's and 1980's. The CPC is in fact better. It now has wider appeal.

There are accusations the CPC is too center and even left leaning. More and more in modern politics this left/right business is becoming relative and 'unimportant' when the left acts like the right and the right acts like the left and they're all seen to collide in confusion as 'liberals' in the center! LOL!

For most voters there is no consideration of this ideological business at the voting booth. The average person places little thought into left and right political ideology. Instead they look for something else to help them pick which party to vote for.

What is that 'something else' that the average voter looks for? The leader!!

You say that BT forums have become a kind of sounding board for:

"The man crush that some people have on Harper got nauseating"

That is unfair! There has been a great deal of critical debate here about his leadership. Much of it from Conservatives!! There is debate and it is sad that you have opted out of discussions where you would have otherwise posted...

Personally I think that the positive postings found here that presents an aura of personality around Harper is good! With the constant demonizing that we have seen there needs to be an offset.

Mr. Harper is an ideologically 'right' leader but is flexible in time and circumstances. To say that this leader is too leftist due to some left-leaning governing circumstances is shortsighted.

Believe it or not - there are more readers in cyberspace than posters - we're the minority! You have to see that the actual leftists are drawing their own standard of 'personality cults' around their leadership.

I personally think that on the topic of this thread - as noted - "BT is a conservative network by definition and anyone who doesn't meet the criteria should not be a member" - it's a private organization and 'free speech' is not really a consideration here. This website tethers a certain 'brand' and members have to share that tether - to be called members. It's logical...
lucamanfredi





Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 170
Reputation: 41.3Reputation: 41.3Reputation: 41.3Reputation: 41.3
votes: 2

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Nicholls were not conservative he wouldn't have been listed in the first place. Our movement evolves precisely because it has - within itself - its own critics and movers.

One could be a strident Conservative and - for all I know - hope for a Liberal victory at the next election in order for a leadership review to occur.

Blogging Tories is a private entity, but de-listing someone without that person breaking decorum rules or most conservative principles would be an unhappy occurrence.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4027
Reputation: 235.2
votes: 8

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Gary Nicholls should be de-listed from Blogging Tories Reply with quote

JDot wrote:
But I vote no*. He should still be a BT. We don't stifle speech. We just laugh at them IMHO.

We all know Gerry Nicholls shtick, no need to censor. Even a broken clock is right twice a day..

*EDIT:I vote no, not yes(original text said yes). Ugh, fail by me.


BINGO! That's part of the reason a lot of people are conservative rather than liberal ... It's because conservatives are more true to the old, 19th century view of liberalism, than Liberals are. They respect the right of others to another opinion.

I take some comfort that the vote is breaking 2-1 against shutting Nicholls down.
Jason Kauppinen





Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 113
Reputation: 74.2
votes: 5

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

machiavelli wrote:
After he agreed to cut, run, and surrender the combat mission to the terrorist in Afghanistan, substantiating that he is a terrorist hugger in the Khadr affair;


Ridiculous. Exactly how long should Canadian troops be there in your opinion?

machiavelli wrote:
Comrade Harper


Ridiculous rhetoric.

machiavelli wrote:
No one calling himself a small-c fiscal conservative can any longer support this pathetic excuse for a conservative leader who is now undistinguishable from the far-left, pitiable Liberal or NDP current leaders.


Ah yes, the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.... that's one I haven't heard in a while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

machiavelli wrote:
genuine small-c conservatives


Again, the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

machiavelli wrote:
It is difficult to articulate the disillusionment and disenchantment that legitimate small-c fiscal, social, and judicial conservatives


Again, the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

machiavelli wrote:
we genuine conservatives


And again, the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

machiavelli wrote:
his massive overspending,


Budget bills require a majority vote in parliament to pass in Canada. If you don't understand this then you need to brush up on your Canadian civics. If you refuse to acknowledge this fact of reality then that choice isn't to your credit.

machiavelli wrote:
are the rationale for legitimate small-c conservatives


And again, the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

If you don't want to bother to construct a logical argument then there are other options available to you... you could post at the black and brass forum.... there are a lot of nutcases there that also think that arguments littered with fallacies and factual inaccuracies are good enough to be taken seriously by rational people.
Craig Smith





Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 244
Reputation: 42Reputation: 42Reputation: 42Reputation: 42

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palomino_pony wrote:
Gerry to a large extent fills that void. What is wrong with reminding Harper that there is still some of us to the right of centre? Keep him around, I hope he stays.


This debate is not about "true conservatives" vs. CPC conservatives. It is about Gerry's single-minded hatred of Harper. The only reason he is even given a platform to talk is because the Toronto Star (and other lefty outlets) love having conservatives on who will bash Harper. There is a genuine personal dislike between Gerry and Harper and THAT is what motivates Gerry - not some ideological conflict.

Your other statements about "certain members" having "man love" for Harper is just childish. People who have beliefs in line with Harpers actions are just as welcome here as anyone else and if "certain members" can't stand being around people like that then so be it.
Alex Fernandes





Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10
Reputation: 20.6Reputation: 20.6

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:51 am    Post subject: Nichols got me into all this Reply with quote

I became a member of the CPC because of Gerry Nichols.

I was always a Conservative but was happy to just vote and cheer from the nose bleed section.

Then one day I'm watching The National and there is Gerry extolling everyone not to donate to the CPC anymore.

WHAT!? I thought. This guy wants this government to be stillborn? After all that work and highly improbable success this guy wants me to turn my back on the only organization that can face down the Liberal dirt bags.

No Fracking Way. So I got my membership. Made a donation, and began my journey.

True Story.

Now, whenever I hear the puritan bleating reach too high a pitch a make a point to modestly sustain the CPC.

Thanks Gerry.
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Gerry Nicholls should be de-listed from Blogging Tories

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