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should they be removed from party due to there actions in Vaughan by election
yes
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
no
89%
 89%  [ 17 ]
Total Votes : 19

Author Message
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Should conservatives against fantino be kicked out of party Reply with quote

( its quoted in the toronto star article that some of these protesters may have active conservative party of canada memberships in ridings near caledonia area or elsewhere but obvivously not in Vaughan riding . i say if they do its time to kick them out of the party as they have crossed the line in there actions by campaigning against a nominated candidate and by giving the liberal media its desired press against a star tory candidate . i say if they have active memberships kick them out and they can go join the liberals where they belong , well i support individual riding associations rights to democratically select there candidate these people are not even from vaughan and there actions are simply inapproiate and go against principles that they agreed to when they joined the party at some point )


Fantino foes vow to keep former top cop out of office
Published On Sun Nov 14 2010EmailPrint(64) Share4Rss ArticleComments (64)
Merlyn Kinrade, 75, protests outside Julian Fantino's Vaughan campaign office on Sunday.

CHLOE FEDIO/TORONTO STAR
Merlyn Kinrade has been a card-carrying Conservative since 1967 but he refuses to support Tory candidate Julian Fantino in the upcoming federal by-election in Vaughan.

The 75-year-old is part of Conservatives Against Fantino, a group dedicated to keeping the former Ontario Provincial Police commissioner out of office.

“The Conservative Party stands for law and order. Why would you run a candidate that completely disregarded the law-and-order scenario?” Kinrade said.

At issue is the 2006 aboriginal occupation of Caledonia.

About 12 people protested outside Fantino’s campaign headquarters in Vaughan Sunday afternoon in the first of a series of blitzes before the Nov. 29 vote. The group may be small but it plans to distribute 60,000 anti-Fantino brochures that describe his alleged legacy of lawless and racist policing policies.

A spokesperson for Fantino’s campaign dismissed the movement led by people who are not eligible to vote in the by-election because they live outside the federal riding.

“Conservatives across Vaughan are highly supportive of Mr. Fantino’s campaign. We’re receiving very positive reception at the door. Local voters are excited,” Stephen Lecce said. “At the end of the day, this election is for the good people of Vaughan to decide.”

Prime Minister Stephen Harper appointed the high-profile police veteran to run in the long-standing Liberal riding when MP Maurizio Bevilacqua stepped down in September after representing the area for 22 years.

Name recognition might have initially given Fantino an edge over Liberal candidate Tony Genco, former CEO of Downsview Park, said Nelson Wiseman, professor of Canadian politics at the University of Toronto. However, Wiseman said the Conservatives Against Fantino could help the Liberals maintain their hold in a riding where Conservative support has been growing. In 2008, Bevilacqua won 49 per cent of the vote while the Conservative candidate took 34 per cent.

“This is not good new for Fantino,” Wiseman said. “This kind of publicity is bad, bad, bad.”

Leading the protest is Gary McHale, a Caledonia resident who has been a thorn in the side of Ontario’s former top cop since the occupation of his southern Ontario town.

Fantino has previously stated that McHale provoked confrontations and baited police during the occupation of Caledonia. But McHale said he was arrested under Fantino’s orders simply for marching down the street while waving a Canadian flag.

“He really doesn’t believe in the Charter of Rights,” McHale said.

Critics say Fantino is running a peek-a-boo campaign in the battle for Vaughan. He has not confirmed whether he will attend an all-candidates’ meeting scheduled for Nov. 23.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ar.....-of-office
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably, as the best Conservative in the country, you are the only guy who should be allowed in the party at all. I mean, if they are going against the party, the party is better off without them, AND their votes.

Just because you don't want to hear something, does not mean that it is wrong.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.

If they feel strongly about this then by all means, express yourself.
If you disagree feel free to express yourself in that regard.

Kicking folks out of the party because of their disdain for a candidate in a riding is exactly what the CPC should not be doing.

With that said;
Are most of these folks even card carrying Conservatives who could be expelled in the first place? From the looks of it, they are simply independent Conservatives speaking their mind, whether its partisan or not, I really have no idea.
Daveeire





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strictly speaking, the CPC has the constitutional abiloty to expel party members who act against he party. Campaigning against a CPC candidate could be defined as acting against the party.

Do I think it should be done? No, I think it would be overkill - like firing a misile at a fly.

Overall, the CPC constution is much better than that of Reform and somewhat better than that of the old PCPC. Questionable people can be blocked from seeking a CPC nomination which avoids the hassle and negative publicity of blocking a nominated candidate from running under the party name. I think they may have over reacted in blocking someone from running against Baird when he first ran in 2006. If they had let the guy run, he would have had to sign a pledge not to run as an independent. They did not let him run so he did run as an independent.

I don't recall the old PCPC expelling people as members although it blocked people from runnning and kicked people out of its causcus from time to time. Reform seemed to conduct frequent purges often on little more than anonymous denunciations and/or personal dislike of the Leader and his groupies.

Fauntino is running in a heavily Liberal riding. As I said before, the CPC has a convenient set of scapegoats available if he loses. If they really want him, they will find a more CPC friendly riding.
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course anyone using their rights to freedom of speech and association should be expelled from the Conservative party asap! Anyone who isn't happy with the Party line should just shut up and get in to goose step with those that know whats best for the greater good of the whole. Harper Harper he's our man, if he can't kill conservatism for the sake of holding on to a minority government, nobody can.....
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
No.

If they feel strongly about this then by all means, express yourself.
If you disagree feel free to express yourself in that regard.

Kicking folks out of the party because of their disdain for a candidate in a riding is exactly what the CPC should not be doing.

With that said;
Are most of these folks even card carrying Conservatives who could be expelled in the first place? From the looks of it, they are simply independent Conservatives speaking their mind, whether its partisan or not, I really have no idea.


my concern isn't that there protest as much , more a fear of intentional abuse of the cpc's openness to welcome new members . what is to stop someone from taking out a conservative party membership and pulling this stunt in another riding in front of an mp's office ? and claim they are a die hard tory to the media even if there really not . it could be used by the liberals and media to create an impression of a divided party .

we need to have clear rules of what is exceptable or not and clear these folks have crossed the line .
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:
Of course anyone using their rights to freedom of speech and association should be expelled from the Conservative party asap! Anyone who isn't happy with the Party line should just shut up and get in to goose step with those that know whats best for the greater good of the whole. Harper Harper he's our man, if he can't kill conservatism for the sake of holding on to a minority government, nobody can.....


these people have a right to express there opinion in a peaceful way but i have an issue with them claiming to be conservatives and doing this in the middle of a heated by-election . they do not even live in the riding of Vaughan and there attempt to interfer with the democratic process by creating this bogus group which even liberal friendly elections canada though had an inapproaite name is an indication that they are taking things too far . if any of them do hold current cpc memberships they should be ashed of themself for pulling this stunt .
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
crazymamma wrote:
Of course anyone using their rights to freedom of speech and association should be expelled from the Conservative party asap! Anyone who isn't happy with the Party line should just shut up and get in to goose step with those that know whats best for the greater good of the whole. Harper Harper he's our man, if he can't kill conservatism for the sake of holding on to a minority government, nobody can.....


these people have a right to express there opinion in a peaceful way but i have an issue with them claiming to be conservatives and doing this in the middle of a heated by-election .


I am a conservative and I would think anyone would be ashamed to have that man as a member of the party let alone a specimen of our candidates for office.

Quote:
they do not even live in the riding of Vaughan and there attempt to interfer with the democratic process by creating this bogus group which even liberal friendly elections canada though had an inapproaite name is an indication that they are taking things too far .


I don't live in that riding either but I sure do have issue with that self important jackboot carrying the conservative name. It's everyone's party, they have a right to complain and let those in that riding association know what they think, it would be different if they gave fake addresses and became delegates and subverted the "democratic " process that way, but protesting? You Have got to be kidding me.

Pffft one level of petty bureaucrats barking in your direction does not make your argument stronger.....

Quote:
if any of them do hold current cpc memberships they should be ashed of them self for pulling this stunt .


Sure, ashamed of feeling such a strong affiliation and affection to their party that they are willing to protest someone who defecated the party's law and order, one land one law principles.


Say what you will but I have a huge problem with them attempting to pass off Fantino as anything but a jack boot lackey for Dalton. The man is anything but a "conservative", but at least with his jump to politics he is being more honest about his self interest/preservation at the public teat and not just pretending to believe in law of the land.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
No.

If they feel strongly about this then by all means, express yourself.
If you disagree feel free to express yourself in that regard.

Kicking folks out of the party because of their disdain for a candidate in a riding is exactly what the CPC should not be doing.

With that said;
Are most of these folks even card carrying Conservatives who could be expelled in the first place? From the looks of it, they are simply independent Conservatives speaking their mind, whether its partisan or not, I really have no idea.


my concern isn't that there protest as much , more a fear of intentional abuse of the cpc's openness to welcome new members . what is to stop someone from taking out a conservative party membership and pulling this stunt in another riding in front of an mp's office ? and claim they are a die hard tory to the media even if there really not . it could be used by the liberals and media to create an impression of a divided party .

we need to have clear rules of what is exceptable or not and clear these folks have crossed the line .


That is reasonable;
But at the same time its been commonplace,

"Conservatives" seem to come out of the woodwork when the opposition can potentially benefit.

Draft Baird and Draft Prentice websites at the height of the BQ/LPC/NDP coalition seem to be convenient hypothetical examples of that.

However springing to expel members, even potential members who have had memberships for ten minutes hinders our actual party membership from having a free voice within the party.

I would sooner the odd "Draft X" site then having a party where you cannot express yourself.

The better way to approach this is simply that if these people are not Conservatives and if one has run as an Independent in another ride or if it appears to be "plants" then you simply address that within the media and allow the public to make their own judgments.
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
RCO wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
No.

If they feel strongly about this then by all means, express yourself.
If you disagree feel free to express yourself in that regard.

Kicking folks out of the party because of their disdain for a candidate in a riding is exactly what the CPC should not be doing.

With that said;
Are most of these folks even card carrying Conservatives who could be expelled in the first place? From the looks of it, they are simply independent Conservatives speaking their mind, whether its partisan or not, I really have no idea.


my concern isn't that there protest as much , more a fear of intentional abuse of the cpc's openness to welcome new members . what is to stop someone from taking out a conservative party membership and pulling this stunt in another riding in front of an mp's office ? and claim they are a die hard tory to the media even if there really not . it could be used by the liberals and media to create an impression of a divided party .

we need to have clear rules of what is exceptable or not and clear these folks have crossed the line .


That is reasonable;
But at the same time its been commonplace,

"Conservatives" seem to come out of the woodwork when the opposition can potentially benefit.

Draft Baird and Draft Prentice websites at the height of the BQ/LPC/NDP coalition seem to be convenient hypothetical examples of that.

However springing to expel members, even potential members who have had memberships for ten minutes hinders our actual party membership from having a free voice within the party.

I would sooner the odd "Draft X" site then having a party where you cannot express yourself.

The better way to approach this is simply that if these people are not Conservatives and if one has run as an Independent in another ride or if it appears to be "plants" then you simply address that within the media and allow the public to make their own judgments.



your right disgrunted people claiming to be conservatives have been coming out of the woodwork during by-elections at federal and provincial level in Ontario for a few years it seems . the first time this happened was in 99 in ancaster dundas provincial vote when Patricia devilers ran and lost for pc 's , she was seen as being too pro gun control at time as she supports registry etc . this also happened in Haliburton Kawartha Lakes brock when john tory ran there . but i realise now in the long run both those defeats ended up being best for party in long run .

but i strongly disagree that not having Fantino come to Ottawa would be in our best interest as he's our only hope of winning Vaughan riding any time soon and as being a former police chief brings incredible credibility to our law and order message , not to mention fact he opposes long gun registry . the party needs Fantino , this is not a loser John Tory situation , we need this guy in Ottawa .

my parents also know someone who lives in Haldimand Norfolk home of caledonia and very actively politically there for a numbers of years with conservatives ( but have no way of contacting him myself at this time unfortuently ) , it would be very interesting to get his thoughs on these people and if they ever really did support the federal party or just a bunch of bitter Bob Speller suporters as they exist in that riding and there still bitter he lost the seat and he is running again there in next election for liberals .
Pissedoff





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think anyone who reads the Red Star and comes up with this idea should join the communist party. Don't allow criticism of dear leader like Stalin,Hitler and N Korea


Quote:
i say if they have active memberships kick them out and they can go join the liberals where they belong , well i support individual riding associations rights to democratically select there candidate these people are not even from vaughan and there actions are simply inapproiate and go against principles that they agreed to when they joined the party at some point )


RCO wrote
Quote:
but i strongly disagree that not having Fantino come to Ottawa would be in our best interest as he's our only hope of winning Vaughan riding any time soon and as being a former police chief brings incredible credibility to our law and order message , not to mention fact he opposes long gun registry . the party needs Fantino , this is not a loser John Tory situation , we need this guy in Ottawa


If this guy brings any credibilty to your law and order message then Canada is screwed.

Here's the Red Star getting it wrong again enjoy

http://caledoniavictimsproject.....ia-charge/
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a tough call. My own position -- I don't want to be associated with him politically. I don't want this guy showing up in the cabinet, based on his record. It isn't that he's been tough, on occasion. Rather, first, it's that he's shown consistently bad judgement, going back to the days when he was making day-care centers safe from Satanism. Second, he has covered up, for himself, with too much skill. He's a slime-ball who never is responsible.

He's verbally adept, and knows how to trick the public's yearning for security, and how to mobilize it. He often takes a patrician pose, telling the people they can go screw themselves because he's in charge of law and order, and what does anybody else know? He shows no awareness that we have a Charter of Rights. He just takes a side.

I don't like him, as a politician, or as a person. I think he could be dangerous.

But it has to be conceded that he has some political force. He's perfectly capable of running against the Conservatives, and doing them harm. If he gets elected, he will almost certainly be a rogue, unless he gets a cabinet seat. You think Belinda Stronach was a pain-in-the-ass? Wait until you see Fantino in action.

Most of all, it's not my job to tell the people of Woodbridge who to pick as their Conservative candidate. So I accept it, begrudgingly.
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( now the group has changed its name , no longer conservatives against fantino , simply are " against fantino " which is more along the lines of what they should of been calling themself to begin with )


Anti-Fantino group changes name to register as third party for byelection
By: The Canadian Press

Posted: 16/11/2010 4:06 PM |

VAUGHAN, Ont. - A group opposed to former Ontario Provincial Police commissioner Julian Fantino's candidacy in an upcoming federal byelection has changed its name in order to register as a third party.

The group formerly known as Conservatives Against Fantino is dropping a third of its name to register as Against Fantino.

Elections Canada rejected the group's application under its original name, saying it was too close to the Conservative Party of Canada and could confuse voters.

As a third party, the group can spend up to $3,765 in advertising to promote or oppose candidates in the Nov. 29 byelection.

Fantino is running as the Conservative candidate for the riding of Vaughan, Ont., just north of Toronto.

One of the group's founders, Gary McHale, has openly criticized Fantino and the provincial police for their role in the 2006 aboriginal occupation in Caledonia, Ont.


http://www.winnipegfreepress.c.....09359.html
Bill Nagle





Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:34 am    Post subject: Conservative in Vaughan Reply with quote

I have lived in Vaughan, Woodbridge to be precise, for years. I voted Conservative in at least the last two federal elections here against Belivacqua. As I've voted Conservative my entire life I consider myself to be a Conservative. While I am not currently a card carrying member of the party, I was for a time back in the 90s. There is NO way I will vote Conservative this time around though. I do not want Julian Fantino to ever be in a position of power and influence again. I don't care for his attitude, the way he bullies and intimidates people, his efforts at making laws giving police way more power then they should have while serving as OPP Commissioner where he should have been focused on enforcing exisiting laws. His handling of the mess in Caledonia. This is one time I hope the Conservatives lose. Harper should really beware of him as well. If elected, IMO, he won't be content sitting as a backbencher. The fix is in I'm sure already for a cabinet post. Think ahead though, Harper may never be able to get a majority, this will lead to a leadership convention. Who do you think will be standing front and centre? I don't know about anyone else but that thought scares the hell out of me. People think we live in a nanny state now? Fantino is all about control, imposing his beliefs and will on the masses. All this hype about him being tough on crime, Mr. Law & Order, it's an illusion. He lets real criminals walk free in Caledonia while pressuring the government to create more and more oppressive traffic laws targeting average citizens. Going after speeders is just him doing the Lord's work. (Fantino's own words) This man must be stopped now before he can gain further power and influence in this country.
CaledoniaVictimsProject





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Posts: 2


PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:09 am    Post subject: Yes, we really are Conservative Party supporters! Reply with quote

(Sorry if this is a little long)

I don't join or monitor discussion boards generally, but I saw the link to us and thought it was important to weigh in - gently - to let you know that we are exactly who we say we are on this page at ConservativesAgainstFantino.ca:

http://conservativesagainstfan.....10/12/faq/

1. Merlyn Kinrade isn't listed on the page above (yet) but, he is a key member of our circle and a co-founder of Canadian Advocates for Charter Equality, along with Gary McHale, Jeff Parkinson and myself.

The Star story is correct - he is indeed a card carrying member since 1967 and has sent a lot of money to the party over the years. I think he sends at least $1000 per year. If any of you wish to contact him, you can do so at 905.765.5131, and tell him Mark told you to call.

2. Gary & Christine McHale are also lifelong Conservative supporters, but can't afford memberships since they are in desperate financial straits from fighting full time for justice in Caledonia for 4 years against Fantino, as am I. You can reach them at 289.286.0423 or at info@garymchale.ca. His website is caledoniawakeupcall.com.

3. I was a member of the Reform Party under Preston Manning. You can reach me at 519.457.0709 or info@caledoniavictimsproject.ca. I think if you read any of my blogs - CaledoniaVictimsProject.ca; VoiceofCanada.ca; ConservativesAgainstFantino.ca; and HelplessByBlatchford.ca, you will definitely discover that I am not a Liberal plant! :lol: Stephen Taylor was the first person to follow VoiceofCanada on Twitter; I'm pretty sure he didn't do that because he was looking for another addled-minded leftie to follow.

I also was in attendance at the recent Mark Steyn event in London where I was personally introduced to Steyn by Andrew Lawton of Strictly Right who thanked me for my coverage of 'Steynapalooza' as it came to be called. You can reach him here to verify: Andrew@StrictlyRight.com

4. Merlyn, Jeff, Gary, Christine and I were all paid attendees at the Harper BBQ visit in London in Sept (I believe it was). I can send photos to anyone who wants one. You can reach Jeff at jparkinson@simcom.on.ca. His blog is JeffParkinson.ca. No secret Liberal he, either.

6. In the spring of 2008 we personally met with Art Hanger and John Cummins at the home of a Caledonia resident. We gave them copies of our 'Human Costs of Illlegal Occupations' and 'Legalized MYTHS of Illegal Occupations' reports which, according to Hanger, they distributed in Ottawa and had "the bureaucrats running for cover."

7. To the best of my knowledge, every single person we personally know who regularly shows up to participate in our protests is a Conservative supporter or member. Put another away, I don't know of a single Liberal supporter in Caledonia who has aided us in any significant way (or any way at all, for that matter). They might exist, but I don't know of any.

8. I know it is natural to be suspicious of the motives of those who challenge us in what seems a radical way, but I ask that you resist the temptation to impugn ours - as I see most have done. Well done.

Why should it be so difficult to believe that Conservatives should take a stand against the subversion of the rule of law by a Liberal government and a Liberal-appointed police commissioner? Isn't that what we should be doing?

The fact that we have been standing up against Ontario Liberal corruption and interference with our justice system should be a tip-off that we are conservative and support the Conservative Party. Unfortunately, the party crossed a line that we cannot allow to go unchallenged when it joined the McGuinty government in embracing Fantino.

I urge you to read the material cited on CAF and Blatchford's book if you haven't already done so. Fantino is a danger to the rule of law and civil liberties in Canada, and his Caledonia track record proves it. I went to jail w/McHale for trying to raise a Cdn flag according to the OPP because native extremists threatened to hurt us! Apparently, it's OK in Fantino's eyes to arrest potential victims as an alternative to protecting them.

9. The problem with conservatives (small C) is that they have not learned to embrace the Charter and to use it to demand protection from the loonie left and appeasement-minded police. That's what we do.

10. We tried privately to warn the party at high levels to wait for Blatchford's book to come out, but they wouldn't listen, wouldn't meet with us, weren't interested, so our hand was forced.

I am absolutely shocked by the crass reactions of some of the senior people in the party to the suffering of Caledonia who are willing to overlook Fantino's conduct because "he was just following orders." I thought I was reading McGuinty Liberal propaganda. Also for the record, I am a former Cdn peacekeeper who was taught that I had a duty to disobey illegal orders. If Fantino was getting illegal orders from McGuinty to conduct racial policing he should have disobeyed them, and he certainly shouldn't be rewarded with a seat in the House by a party that's supposed to stand for law and order.

The CPC crossed a line that should never have been crossed, and now we feel, in good conscience, that the best way to help the party in the long term is to hurt it in the short term.

I would suggest that if anyone should be kicked out of the party, it should probably be those who sold the party's soul by making the decision to take over where McGuinty left off. I cannot help but say, 'Shame on every one of them.' (And that's as 'gentle' as I can get.)

Anyone who wants to chat is welcome to call me any time day or night up to around 10pm or so at 519.457.0709.

Thanks for listening.

Mark Vandermaas
ConservativesAgainstFantino.ca
VoiceofCanada.ca
CaledoniaVictimsProject.ca
HelplessByBlatchford.ca
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Should conservatives against fantino be kicked out of party

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