Home FAQ Search Memberlist User Groups Register Login   

BloggingTories.ca Forum IndexBloggingTories.ca Forum Index
    Index     FAQ     Search     Register     Login         JOIN THE DISCUSSION - CLICK HERE      

*NEW* Login or register using your Facebook account.

Not a member? Join the fastest growing conservative community!
Membership is free and takes 15 seconds


CLICK HERE or use Facebook to login or register ----> Connect



Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next  

Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 3 of 6
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Alan A.





Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 237
Reputation: 22.4Reputation: 22.4
votes: 4
Location: Western Canada

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thurmas wrote:
ugh why do you guys keep posting all these religous posts who cares if someone is atheist or catholic or lutheran or whatever as long as we are good decent people who cares whether soemone believes in christ or not. I keep my religon to myself just because someone is agnostic or atheist or whatever I won't label them a commie.


Great post. I would stick it front page on the Blogging Tories.

And obsessive religionism is one branch of conservatism that can be very embarrassing some times; no offense to some thin skins here.
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thurmas wrote:
ugh why do you guys keep posting all these religous posts who cares if someone is atheist or catholic or lutheran or whatever as long as we are good decent people who cares whether soemone believes in christ or not. I keep my religon to myself just because someone is agnostic or atheist or whatever I won't label them a commie.


If you don't like discussions about religion I would advise you to avoid the "Religion" forum.

I don't think anyone suggested that atheist = communist. They merely suggested a relationship. And that is a fair topic to debate.
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan A. wrote:
And obsessive religionism is one branch of conservatism that can be very embarrassing some times; no offense to some thin skins here.


Our "religion" forum is not one of our most active forums. So calling it "obsessive" is neither accurate or fair.
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BHundo wrote:
Being an atheist is just not buying into a religion,


That is a load of hooey.

There are plenty of spiritual folks who are not religious period.

Religion and the belief in a higher power can and are seperate things allllll together.
Alan A.





Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 237
Reputation: 22.4Reputation: 22.4
votes: 4
Location: Western Canada

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Alan A. wrote:
And obsessive religionism is one branch of conservatism that can be very embarrassing some times; no offense to some thin skins here.


Our "religion" forum is not one of our most active forums. So calling it "obsessive" is neither accurate or fair.


Not calling the whole religion forum 'obsessive', Craig. Only a sub-group if you will, and they often give conservatism a bad name. The phrase "religious right" is used successfully by the opponents of conservatives for a good reason: it has a negative connotation among the general population and it scares a lot of them away from voting conservative. I don't think you can deny that, only I'm open to hear some sensible and realistic argument that would say otherwise.
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan A. wrote:
it has a negative connotation among the general population and it scares a lot of them away from voting conservative. I don't think you can deny that, only I'm open to hear some sensible and realistic argument that would say otherwise.


Sure it has a negative connotation. But the religious right has done more good than harm in terms of conservatism. It is their money and dedication that has solidified America as a "conservative" country. Rather than alienate them we should be thanking them. Are they perfect? No. But they are an asset.
thurmas





Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 227
Reputation: 36Reputation: 36Reputation: 36Reputation: 36
votes: 1

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how is america a model to follow they have way more debt per person than we do and much more crime too they should be looking to our conservatives not the other way around. also republicans even before obama were never conservative with how much debt they racked up, they were fervent bible thumpers but not much else even now I dont trust them in being true conservatives if they get power back.The only ones in the gop i somewhat like are gulianni and romney.
Craig Smith





Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 244
Reputation: 42Reputation: 42Reputation: 42Reputation: 42

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thurmas wrote:
how is america a model to follow they have way more debt per person than we do and much more crime too they should be looking to our conservatives not the other way around. also republicans even before obama were never conservative with how much debt they racked up, they were fervent bible thumpers but not much else even now I dont trust them in being true conservatives if they get power back.The only ones in the gop i somewhat like are gulianni and romney.


Not sure what your point here is. Do you think that the religious right is responsible for the fact that US conservatives are not fiscally conservatives or do you think the RINOs are? And are you blaming US conservatives for their debt problem? Because if you are, that is very naive. I would blame the US political system which encourages spending in the form of compromise.

In terms of conservative policies, we could learn a lot from our American cousins.
thurmas





Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 227
Reputation: 36Reputation: 36Reputation: 36Reputation: 36
votes: 1

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

with power comes responsibility and frankly the gop failled during the 2000's and to me canada is a hell of a much better place to be than the u.s. especially with our current pm.also there are so few rhinos left that they really had little effect on gop policy this past decade.I am worried about about the very thin talent pool in the gop right now and no i dont think palin is talent maybe there is a another govenor waiting in the wings to rescue the gop.
Alan A.





Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 237
Reputation: 22.4Reputation: 22.4
votes: 4
Location: Western Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Alan A. wrote:
it has a negative connotation among the general population and it scares a lot of them away from voting conservative. I don't think you can deny that, only I'm open to hear some sensible and realistic argument that would say otherwise.


Sure it has a negative connotation. But the religious right has done more good than harm in terms of conservatism. It is their money and dedication that has solidified America as a "conservative" country. Rather than alienate them we should be thanking them. Are they perfect? No. But they are an asset.


Point well made. I have to agree that our religious culture is an asset, as long as it remains moderate. Fortunately it's the case in Canada, bar a marginal fringe. (In the U.S though...not always)
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thurmas wrote:
with power comes responsibility and frankly the gop failled during the 2000's and to me canada is a hell of a much better place to be than the u.s. especially with our current pm.also there are so few rhinos left that they really had little effect on gop policy this past decade.I am worried about about the very thin talent pool in the gop right now and no i dont think palin is talent maybe there is a another govenor waiting in the wings to rescue the gop.


There is a latino Republican from Florida who is excellent. We had a thread about him recently but I can't find it. Does anyone recall his name? I think he is currently in the Florida senate.
Dave Conservative





Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 21
Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1
votes: 1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Religion is key influential feature on all cultures. Even in the West (Western Europe and North America), where secularism has been a recent ongoing trend, Western Christian values (from Protestantism and Roman Catholicism) were the prime influencing variable shaping the historical development of Western societies cultural development. Because culture values directly shapes most societal and political-economic relations in society, one can argue that religion place a key role in shaping society, even after it has been secularized. This is a fact, whether atheists are loath to admit it or not.

One need only read the great Western Classical Liberal philosophers (e.g. John Locke) who advocated individual freedoms, rule of law and private property and limited government, to see that these great minds’ ideas were infused with their own Christian beliefs. One who is skeptical might also want to read Max Weber’s The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, to see just how greatly Protestant beliefs helped shaped the development of Capitalism in Western Europe.

Is it a coincidence liberal-democratic values and ideals (individual freedom, individual equality, rule of law, private property, etc) are only to be found predominantly in West (historically Western Christian countries)? In most other parts of the World outside the West, with the exception of the few East Asian democracies that were more receptive to adopting certain Western democratic values, such ideals are foreign concepts.

I would also argue that Communism acted as a religious faith for those who believed in it.
Alan A.





Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 237
Reputation: 22.4Reputation: 22.4
votes: 4
Location: Western Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Conservative wrote:
Religion is key influential feature on all cultures. Even in the West (Western Europe and North America), where secularism has been a recent ongoing trend, Western Christian values (from Protestantism and Roman Catholicism) were the prime influencing variable shaping the historical development of Western societies cultural development. Because culture values directly shapes most societal and political-economic relations in society, one can argue that religion place a key role in shaping society, even after it has been secularized. This is a fact, whether atheists are loath to admit it or not.

One need only read the great Western Classical Liberal philosophers (e.g. John Locke) who advocated individual freedoms, rule of law and private property and limited government, to see that these great minds’ ideas were infused with their own Christian beliefs. One who is skeptical might also want to read Max Weber’s The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, to see just how greatly Protestant beliefs helped shaped the development of Capitalism in Western Europe.

Is it a coincidence liberal-democratic values and ideals (individual freedom, individual equality, rule of law, private property, etc) are only to be found predominantly in West (historically Western Christian countries)? In most other parts of the World outside the West, with the exception of the few East Asian democracies that were more receptive to adopting certain Western democratic values, such ideals are foreign concepts.

I would also argue that Communism acted as a religious faith for those who believed in it.


I think you confuse religious beliefs with humane values. You don't have to believe in any 'god' or any ancient book to be a good person, or a person with the values you consider as good. Your model of a society evolving on the base of religious values cannot be checked against one that wouldn't have, because there's none we know of. It's pure speculation not based on reasonably verifiable facts, like all beliefs anyway.
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 7523
Reputation: 301Reputation: 301
votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atheist's seem to spend more time trying to convert people then Christians at Airports.
Dave Conservative





Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 21
Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1
votes: 1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan A. wrote:
I think you confuse religious beliefs with humane values. You don't have to believe in any 'god' or any ancient book to be a good person, or a person with the values you consider as good. Your model of a society evolving on the base of religious values cannot be checked against one that wouldn't have, because there's none we know of. It's pure speculation not based on reasonably verifiable facts, like all beliefs anyway.


Alan

I do not think I am confusing anything here. The core values of Western societies were not simply created one day by someone going into the "values store" and simply randomly picking "humane" values off the shelf.

I am also not confusing "humane" values here with religious values. Although Western values are now secularized, a great deal of scholarly evidence illustrates that the Western Worlds "humane" values were directly infused by the religious values of Western Christianity.

This is not mere speculation, as there is a great deal of multidisciplinary literature in the social sciences and humanities that have gone far beyond the work of the Max Weber source that I mentioned, which show quite credible historical evidential patterns of religious values shaping the predominant cultural values of the societies in which they are situated.

While this is a fact, most atheists remain loath to admit it.

As mentioned before, one who is skeptical need only read Locke's Second Treatise to see how religion influenced Western values of individual freedoms, equality, rule of law, private property and limited government, as well as concepts of work and wealth accumulation.

Again, if you are still skeptical, I will refer you to Max Weber’s The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, to see just how greatly Protestant values beliefs helped shaped the development of Capitalism in Western Europe.

To conclude, I will pose the same question from my previous post:

Is it a coincidence that liberal-democratic values and ideals (individual freedom, individual equality, rule of law, private property, etc) are predominant almost only exclusively in West (historically Western Christian countries)?
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 3 of 6

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next  


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


why I am an atheist

phpBBCopyright 2001, 2005 phpBB