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concerned





Joined: 03 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject: Don Newman's Latest Editorial Reply with quote

Yeah, and this guy wasn't biased when he had his program.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story.....alcomments
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, it's all the evil right-wing and their hidden agenda... The CBC is soooooo annoying!

-Mac
Some Guy 2.0





Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's say the pundits from either side are correct.

The left is stupid, the right is evil.

Who do you trust more? Someone stupid, or someone evil?

I vote evil.
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have anything to add, except a favourite adage, Hanlon's Razor:

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Mac





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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
I don't have anything to add, except a favourite adage, Hanlon's Razor:

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

That is a classic adage! Awesome!!

-Mac
langmann





Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Newman : "As a result, spin has replaced substance, posturing has replaced policies, attacking opponents has replaced attacking problems pretty much across the board."

was this guy around during the Chretien years? What substance did the liberals have, what policies? Does he not remember the Rat Pack?

Chretien was the master of the liberal art of acting sympathetic and doing nothing. What did they do about the CBC's beloved climate change and global warming? Talked. Childcare? Yapped. Crime? Pontificated. Transfer Payments? Smiled.

The only thing the Liberals did was pound our deficit, which is notable and arguable.
Mac





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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

langmann wrote:
The only thing the Liberals did was pound our deficit, which is notable and arguable.

Especially the 'arguable' part. They decimated the Armed Forces and the RCMP who sat back quietly and let it happen like good, loyal servants of the Crown.

-Mac
Habsrwfan





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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I know why Newman wrote this article.

It's because Preston Manning and the Reform party really were major game-changers in Ottawa, although the fruits of what they sowed had to eventually be picked by Stephen Harper and the united Conservative party.


I would argue that after Joe Clark succeeded Robert Stanfield as Leader of the federal PC party, that the PCs shifted a significant degree towards the center, and that the federal PC party never really returned fully to its conservative roots that it had under the leadership of Stanfield, Diefenbaker, and those before them. At the federal level, the PCs ceased to represent the interests of western conservatives. They were often preferable to the Liberals, but they never really spoke for the vision of Canada held by westerners either. This is partly why Ed Broadbent's NDP was actually fairly popular out west during the 80s... because Broadbent actually took up a more decentralized approach to federal/provincial relations that westerners liked a great deal.

What happened with the rise of the Reform party, though, is that a much more grassroots conservatism voice was heard in Ottawa. Reform didn't just approach issues from slightly different takes as we saw between the PCs and the Liberals... Reform brought light back to entirely different issues that the PCs had long neglected. Reform wasn't interested in simply beating the Liberals at their own game... they wanted to change the way the game was played (i.e. Senate reform being a key example of that).


This was a significant shift in Ottawa after 1993, and it threatened the Trudeaupian vision of Canadian governance that had been the standard bearer in Canada since Trudeau first took power as Prime Minister. Mulroney, to his credit, shifted away from that to a limited degree with NAFTA, but he didn't really challenge it the way that Manning and the Reform party did.


Political news reporters in Ottawa and Toronto, and though out most of central and eastern Canada loved the way that Trudeau redefined Canada, and they dislike how Manning, then Day, and now Harper have all stood against that to a significant degree.


It does change the tenor in Ottawa, a little bit, because the divides are more philosophical now than before. There's a real division between Harper's Conservatives and Iggy's Liberals on what is the proper role of the Canadian federal government, and it's a starker divide than what you saw between Mulroney's Tories and Tuner's Grits.


However, I think that this is, in some ways, a healthy state of affairs. It makes people really question the way our political system works. It makes people question issues that shouldn't just have the status quo be assumed to be Ok because it was what Trudeau wanted, or because we've been approaching it that way for two or three decades now.


So, I see the writing between the lines of Newman's article. He doesn't like how Manning, then Day, and now Harper have all challenged the Trudeaupian vision of Canada that had ruled in Ottawa for several decades.


All of the above being said, though, some of Newman's critiques are valid... but they're valid strictly because this is a minority government existing in the internet era. That means every party is in constant campaign and spin mode. Not a signal political choice is made with out respect to the polls or to the public relations optics. This does hinder governance quite a bit, and is precisely why Canada could badly use a majority government right now... ideally, a Conservative majority government.
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Habsrwfan, I like the cut of your jib, so to speak. There's an excellent, if somewhat provocative book, by Calgary political science professor Barry Cooper that discusses the themes you highlight. More specifically, it talks about a strictly 'Laurentian' perspective on governance that both the PCs and Liberals shared more or less since Confederation until the rise of Reform in the West. It's worth a read: LINK . I think Professor Cooper would agree in large part with your analysis.
langmann





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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Habswrfan. If I might add having been around at the time, Reform basically was founded on the principles that the people could be trusted to govern rather than so called intellectuals and media.

In fact a lot of the Reform platform was notable for that contrast. And I think a lot of the public began to take notice simply because it was about things easy to understand and relate to. For instance deficit and debt reform. People can understand that one cannot run a debt forever and that constant borrowing will eventually result in all income spent on interest. This became a big issue and the Liberals were able to take some hard steps toward debt management simply because Reform made it the issue in Canada at the time. Moreover the Libs were able to profit off of the unjust fears about Reform by saying we can balance the budget without sacrficing Canadian ideals unlike those Reform guys.

The other Reform platforms such as a flat tax, punishment justice and victims rights for crime, Senate reform, free trade and provincial free trade, dissolution of the apartheid Indian affairs system, end subsidies to business etc. were all real tangible issues that people could understand and moreover those who were intellectual had studied and found good evidence for. I still remember the chagrin of the CBC when they had to report that the Reform flat tax was the best option for the poor compared to the Lib and even NDP platform.

This scared the bejeesus out of Ottawa. If Reform made government a lot of people stood to lose their trough of tax payer money.

I never truly appreciated the difference between Reform and the Tories (the party of business subsidy) until the merger and I went to a meeting to hear Deb talk. I was seated by and older lady who turned to me and said she couldn't wait until the Conservatives formed government so industry could get the funding it needed and deserved.

It was then I knew the Reform dream was over, diluted by lobbyists, hacks, syncophants, MSM, bureaucrats and those who vote for their guy.
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