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fhilliard





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 39
Reputation: 14.5
Location: Grand Forks, BC

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:40 pm    Post subject: Public Reaction to Islamism Reply with quote

All around us we see examples of Islamic radicals promoting an every more violent and every more widespread Jihad against Western values; especially against democracy, free speech, womens' rights and freedom of religion. I could assemble a list, but it's easier to point you to Jihad Watch and you can see for yourself. Most posters to The Blogging Tories know this and have the same sense of unease I do. It feels the way the world felt in 1938; alarm on the one hand, calls for peace and dialogue on the other, and over all a threatening movement aiming at world domination.

So why isn't this obvious to the Canadian public? President Bush says we're fighting Islamic Fascists; Canadians ignore him (or worse, laugh). Stephen Harper (and other Canadian Government leaders) says Hezbollah is just like the Nazis (more indifference). Seventeen terrorists (OK, I'll call them 'suspects') are arrested before they manage to pull off a giant truck bombing in downtown Toronto (Yawn).

The feeling I get is that Canadians think they're immune from the world; that if we just play 'nice' Al-Qaeda will take us off their list.

Actually, it's worse than that. I have had a similar conversation with five mature, university-educated women in the past three months. They were friends of friends and the conversation was almost entirely on their work, other peoples' work and various personal relations. I interjected, just once, in each conversation and asked what they thought about Islamism, about the possibility of a world dominated by the Taliban, Hamas, Hesbollah, Iran and all the rest.

"It'll never happen here," was the most complex answer I got in return. The subject was so far off their radar they had no opinion on it. So, back to my question, what's it going to take to get the Canadian public to start seeing the threat it faces?
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lately, I have felt as though the tide is turning. I feel as though Canadians and certain elements of the media are waking up. I think the defection of many jewish leaders to the CPC camp is what sparked hope for me. That combined with the National Post's move to the right.
Donald Hughes





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 166
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Location: Libertarian socialism

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have to remember that the fear of Arab/Muslim terrorism is not new. It was even a central part of the rhetoric of the Reagan administration, and had been a fear before this as well. Almost every threat is presented as new and ultimate as a matter of course, but most people understand that these threats are inflated and a large number accept that these fears are instrumental for the political elite. Given the massive effect of real problems, such as the millions that will die as a direct or indirect result of poverty, I think that if anything we need to radically reorient ourselves away from security threats and towards basic human health and welfare.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a threat from radical Islam. There has been a threat before, Charles Martel turned that one back. If we survive this one, there may be another in the future. There is nothing new under the sun.
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donald Hughes wrote:
I think that if anything we need to radically reorient ourselves away from security threats and towards basic human health and welfare.


We have a MASSIVE infrastructure in place already to deal with human health and welfare...

1. universal health care
2. universal primary and secondary education
3. welfare
4. EI
5. affordable housing
6. dozens of other programs designed to help the poor

You can only do so much. Besides, the advent of the welfare state hasn't exactly reduced any of these problems since their inception.

As far as Africa is concerned, until they sort out their governmental issues it is a pretty futile effort. And if removing Saddam Hussein, according to the left, was uncalled for, how exactly can we jusfity dealing with corrupt regimes in Africa? Besides, George Bush has tripled funding to Africa compared with Clinton and he isn't exactly being praised for having done so, is he?

And speaking about Africa, look at Nigeria or Somalia and you will see just how real the threat of violent Islamic elements is.
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


Link
Peter





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 29
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Public Reaction to Islamism Reply with quote

fhilliard wrote:

Actually, it's worse than that. I have had a similar conversation with five mature, university-educated women in the past three months. They were friends of friends and the conversation was almost entirely on their work, other peoples' work and various personal relations. I interjected, just once, in each conversation and asked what they thought about Islamism, about the possibility of a world dominated by the Taliban, Hamas, Hesbollah, Iran and all the rest.

"It'll never happen here," was the most complex answer I got in return. The subject was so far off their radar they had no opinion on it. So, back to my question, what's it going to take to get the Canadian public to start seeing the threat it faces?



The tragedy is Islamism has already happened. It's oppressing people in Iran. It's oppressing women in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia and other places. If it can happen in a progressive place like Iran or Egypt it can happen here.

Their needs to be a change in the mind of the average middle eastern muslim. They need to believe their women should have equal rights. In order for this belief to take shape we have to support women's rights in those countries. More importantly women here, need to go there and help with protests. They need to take the fight for women's rights to the Muslim world. That will help us defeat Islamism.

Islamism can happen here, and it won't happen because Canada is taken over by terrorist attacks. The Islamic plan is to send people here, make their wives and children where traditional clothing, behave and follow the traditional ways and now they want a court of law that will enforce the Qu'ran. This is the worst injustice that can happen to women living in Canada and it almost became a reality in Ontario.

Women of Canada need to volunteer in those countries, en masse. They need to spread the word of freedom, they need to teach girls the truth.

If woman have equal rights and an equal voice they will reject Islam! There is no place in paradise for them, other than being a sex slave.
PeterLT





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 3
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Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately it will take a London bombing or worse to wake Canadians up. I hope it doesn't happen soon but when I hear idiots like Jack Layton and bleeding heart liberals saying things to the effect that if we somehow appeal to their sense of fair play and spread our love and respect for all in their countries I sometimes wonder if it isn't time we suffered a bit.

You cannot negotiate in any tangible or meaningful way with someone who has been spoon-fed hatred for you since birth. You cannot instill a love for democracy in people who send their children out with explosives strapped to them to murder innocent people. You cannot win (by any measure) against people who believe more in their little finger about the justness of jihad than any Canadian believes in virtually anything.

If the media is to be believed, I see the ongoing agony about soldier's deaths in Afghanistan shaking Canadians to the core. Folks are supposedly screaming to get out of there. The government may even take a hit in the next election over it. Well, try this one on for size folks, 907 killed, 2,460 wounded and 1,874 taken prisoner in 6 hours on the beaches of Dieppe. Was the flag lowered on Parliament Hill? Was the press there to film the families in their grief? Were there people protesting that there wasn't an "exit strategy"? Ah, but we were at war! Aren't we now?

I am of the humble opinion, based on what I see in the news and several UN tours that we in the west are in a whole lot of trouble in the Islamic world and it doesn't matter what the US does or doesn't do. It's a Jihad, a sacred duty to Allah. If we don't fight them there, we WILL fight them here sooner or later. The problem is; are we up to it now or do we have to bleed a little first in Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver?
fhilliard





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 39
Reputation: 14.5
Location: Grand Forks, BC

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeterLT wrote:
Unfortunately it will take a London bombing or worse to wake Canadians up.


'Unfortunate' is right. Most of us on this blog can see this coming like a train down the track and yet the public generally is still sleepwalking. One can only imagine the surprise the public -- and the Toronto Star -- would have felt if the Toronto 18 had managed to set off their three tons of explosives in front of the Royal Bank building.

Some other group, as yet undiscovered, is no doubt working on this at the moment. Remember the World Trade towers were hit with a truck bomb before 9/11. The Islamists don't give up; they just try again.

It's because they do in one place what they've done in another that I'm also worried about a school takeover. I think that's another real possibility. No doubt we'll find out soon enough.

Good to see I'm not alone in being worried about this.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there is some big successful terrorist attack in Canada, there will be no waking up. See the following link for the most likely outcome.

http://www.911truth.org/

It is sad, but I can see it all now. What is the acronym, Bush did it on purpose or something?
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



"Unity in Diversity"

Starting on the bottom left - in order of antiquity - Hinduism as symbolized by - the Sacred OM - then moving right - Judaism as symbolized by - the Star of David stylised as the Burning Bush - then moving up - Christianity as symbolized by - the Cross of Salvation - then moving to the top left corner Islam as symbolized by - the Cresent and Star.

This picture is to show that while we may be many - our Home - the Earth - is one and - while our faiths - may be many - the Object of our faiths - the Creator - is One...
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donald Hughes wrote:
Given the massive effect of real problems, such as the millions that will die as a direct or indirect result of poverty, I think that if anything we need to radically reorient ourselves away from security threats and towards basic human health and welfare.



So you're advocating we hasten the overpopulation of the planet?

Save the starving? Natural Selection Exists for a reason...

Brutal as it may sound - people NEED to die... I'm in no rush to stop aids.. or poverty internationally. People dying is tragic - but those people need to educate themselves, solve their own problems...
Donald Hughes





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 166
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Location: Libertarian socialism

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So you're advocating we hasten the overpopulation of the planet?

Save the starving? Natural Selection Exists for a reason...
Actually, the facts seem to support the idea that the more access to health care and education we can get to people, the more likely they are to have small families. Large families can also be a function of poverty, as children might be seen as investments in addition to costs. There is also a minimum of reproductive health in many areas. Every study I've seen seems to suggest that the faster we expand a range of basic public services, the faster our global population will level off.

In any case, Malthus is very obsolete and is only ever brought back by caveman-conservatives and sky-is-falling environmentalists. Such extreme competition is generally much less efficient and beneficial than cooperation. Even industry, usually framed as the epitome of competition, should be mostly seen as highly coordinated cooperation. We live together or we die alone.
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malthus isn't the only person who has suggested that overpopulation would occur..

Malthus was wrong.. his predictions as incorrect as the scientists' global warming predictions in the 60's...

I remember seeing a UN report on overpopulation just last year...

The reality is that we can't change those countries - they must change themselves..

I agree that providing those services helps reduce population; and you'll notice i included:

"People dying is tragic - but those people need to educate themselves, solve their own problems..."
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone have a definitive list of all the countries either with an Islamic theocracy/Sharia in place, or with active Islamic insurgencies? I will start one.

Thailand
Sudan
Iran
Syria

Don't know how to classify Chechnya or Pakistan. Places like Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey are probably experiencing a lot of trouble that we do not hear about. Lebanon has the Iranian colony in its South. Is France still having nightly car burnings? That would qualify as an insurgency I think.
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