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Rob Doyle





Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Posts: 7


PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:09 pm    Post subject: Bob Rae vs Mike Harris???? Reply with quote

Who was really the worst Premier? I am originally from B.C so I wasn't around for these 2 guys. I had to deal with NDP Premier Ujjal Dosanjh and Liberal Premier Gordon Campbell (I Only recall these 2 guys cause that's when I started liking and caring for politics). I have done some looking and comparing these 2 guys and Really Rae was and is a Complete Idiot. I liked a lot of Mike Harris' policies except for a few of them. So if you compare apples to apples who really was the worst Premier. You hear everyone knock the Conservatives in Ontario because of Mike Harris however when I seen the stuff he did 30% income tax cut. Cutting Welfare rates by 22% (I believe Assistance is needed for some people that CAN'T work or really can't find a job HOWEVER many people abuse it) Harris cut welfare rolls by 1/2 a million people. How was this guy so wrong? My wife is a Teacher and she HATES the stuff he did to Teachers but besides that I agree with mostly everything.

What do you guys think?
CPP





Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 244
Reputation: 10.5
votes: 1
Location: Too close to Quebec

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Bob Rae vs Mike Harris???? Reply with quote

Rob Doyle wrote:
Who was really the worst Premier? I am originally from B.C so I wasn't around for these 2 guys. I had to deal with NDP Premier Ujjal Dosanjh and Liberal Premier Gordon Campbell (I Only recall these 2 guys cause that's when I started liking and caring for politics). I have done some looking and comparing these 2 guys and Really Rae was and is a Complete Idiot. I liked a lot of Mike Harris' policies except for a few of them. So if you compare apples to apples who really was the worst Premier. You hear everyone knock the Conservatives in Ontario because of Mike Harris however when I seen the stuff he did 30% income tax cut. Cutting Welfare rates by 22% (I believe Assistance is needed for some people that CAN'T work or really can't find a job HOWEVER many people abuse it) Harris cut welfare rolls by 1/2 a million people. How was this guy so wrong? My wife is a Teacher and she HATES the stuff he did to Teachers but besides that I agree with mostly everything.

What do you guys think?


I would say that during my time as an Ontario citizen, Billy Bob (I ruined Ontario first ) Rae was probably the worst ever, spending tax money like a drunken sailor, his infamous Rae days (where did all that money go :?: ) reducing the number of medical students (we're still paying for that mistake); then Liberal Premier David Peterson who didnt have a clue as to what he was doing; then the Teflon Liberal Premier McGuinty with all of warts/scandals/financial deficits but Mikey Harris would be a close fourth with down loading some provincial responsibilities to the municipal level; lack of government oversight with the tragic Walkerton water scandal; lack of government oversight with the Aylmer tained meat scandal; the many Toronto hospital closures that took place on his watch and the very unpopular amalgamation of the seven Toronto cities into one. This move alone probably sealed the Tories fate as to gaining any Toronto seats for many years to come.
And then left the party in a snit. Some conservative thinkers to this day still dont know the truth as to why he left.
Anyway, thats my opinion as someone (former conservative) who suffered from the actions of both these leaders having lost my final position to the Harris cuts as did many other conservative sympathizers.
But such is life.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You got into politics too late, Rob. The real scoundrels came before Ujjal.

The guy who Ujjal replaced was Glen Clark who stepped aside after being criminally charged with Breach of Trust. Although Clark was eventually acquitted, his co-conspirator was convicted (go figure that one!)... For a brief period, after Clark was gone, Arthur Miller ran the show until they held a leadership campaign in which Dosanjh was picked as leader of the NDP.

Clark came to power after Mike Harcourt stepped aside after "Bingo-gate" in which party officials were found to be skimming funds from a charity bingo to be used by the riding association. Although Harcourt wasn't implicated, he did the honourable thing and stepped aside. Harcourt was a decent guy although socialist to the bone.

Harcourt came to power in the election which saw the end of the Social Credit Party. The SoCreds ran the province under the banner of one William (Bill) Vander Zalm who became persona nongrata after he was found guilty of a conflict of interest involving a $30K cash "incentive" as part of a real estate deal when he sold Fantasy Gardens to Faye Leung. After Vander Zalm went away, his replacement, Rita Johnston, wasn't able to salvage the SoCred Party's reputation...

Politics in BC is a bloodsport compared to Ontario...

As for Mike Harris versus Bob Rae, that's pretty easy. The only people who have a bad word to say about Harris are the unionists and socialists. I don't know anyone who has anything much good to say about Rae. Even the unions hated him!

-Mac
teenagetory





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 369
Reputation: 30.4Reputation: 30.4Reputation: 30.4
votes: 1
Location: Halifax

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Say these two phrases in your head:
Finance Minister Bob Rae
Finance Minister Mike Harris

If your like most of the people on this forum you will only get an upset stomach when you think about the first one. Ergo Harris was better and Rae was the worst
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 7479
Reputation: 299.1
votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me summarize Rae's tenure in Ontario.

Prior to the 1990 election, we knew that there would be a deficit. Peterson's Liberals prepared us for the worst with a $700 million deficit after Rae took office the deficit at the end of the fiscal year was 2.5 billion.

The Rae governments first budget came with a projected a record deficit of $9.1 billion, which was suppose to protect or create 70,000 jobs, by ignoring businesses and spending most of the money on social programs.

Rae placed a cap on medical school enrollment, because goodness knows we don't need doctors.

He then froze the construction and planning of any new Nuclear Power plants in Ontario and replaced them with power generated by....Nothing.

He was opposed to Sunday Shopping.

And when he finally left office, we had a record debt left behind.

While Harris seems to be unloved by the left wing masses, he did what he promised in his 1995 platform.

He cut the social spending we simply could not afford, he returned social assistance to the levels it was prior to Rae, and he cut all personal income tax brackets to pre-1990 levels (basically a 30% cut) in the first year he was in office.

His unpopularity comes from the fact that he cut government spending to the bone, getting rid of nurses and other government workers that we simply could not have afforded without further increasing the debt load.

Once the budget was balanced, and the economy was looking better toward the end of his first term he increased health spending to record levels to counter transfer cuts from the federal government, and hired new nurses.

The problem with Rae was that his government did wide reaching damage, and that is why he is unpopular in Ontario.

Harris' unpopularity spans from his clashes with the Unions and the squeaky wheel gets the grease mentality of the left and their always complaining mentality,

But all and all, he did what was promised.
Have a look at the 1995 platform, while it wasn't 100% keeping promises he did do a lot of it, balance the budgets and helped counteract the lost of revenue from the feds reducing the transfer payments.
CPP





Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 244
Reputation: 10.5
votes: 1
Location: Too close to Quebec

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
Let me summarize Rae's tenure in Ontario.

Prior to the 1990 election, we knew that there would be a deficit. Peterson's Liberals prepared us for the worst with a $700 million deficit after Rae took office the deficit at the end of the fiscal year was 2.5 billion.

The Rae governments first budget came with a projected a record deficit of $9.1 billion, which was suppose to protect or create 70,000 jobs, by ignoring businesses and spending most of the money on social programs.

Rae placed a cap on medical school enrollment, because goodness knows we don't need doctors.

He then froze the construction and planning of any new Nuclear Power plants in Ontario and replaced them with power generated by....Nothing.

He was opposed to Sunday Shopping.

And when he finally left office, we had a record debt left behind.

While Harris seems to be unloved by the left wing masses, he did what he promised in his 1995 platform.

He cut the social spending we simply could not afford, he returned social assistance to the levels it was prior to Rae, and he cut all personal income tax brackets to pre-1990 levels (basically a 30% cut) in the first year he was in office.

His unpopularity comes from the fact that he cut government spending to the bone, getting rid of nurses and other government workers that we simply could not have afforded without further increasing the debt load.

Once the budget was balanced, and the economy was looking better toward the end of his first term he increased health spending to record levels to counter transfer cuts from the federal government, and hired new nurses.

The problem with Rae was that his government did wide reaching damage, and that is why he is unpopular in Ontario.

Harris' unpopularity spans from his clashes with the Unions and the squeaky wheel gets the grease mentality of the left and their always complaining mentality,

But all and all, he did what was promised.
Have a look at the 1995 platform, while it wasn't 100% keeping promises he did do a lot of it, balance the budgets and helped counteract the lost of revenue from the feds reducing the transfer payments.


Your right in that Harris did everything he said he would and then some. But in some ways he took the easy way out by down loading many provincial responsibilities to the municipalities.
Again, the very unpopular move of amalgamating Toronto's seven cities into one, probably sealed the Tories fate for sometime in obtaining seats in Toronto.
crowe_b





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 9
Reputation: 32.5Reputation: 32.5Reputation: 32.5
Location: Cambridge, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I can tell from what I am told many of the reforms to welfare and other assistance programs that were brought in by the Harris government are still around after 6 years of Dolton - all those policies that the Liberals howled about for all those Harris years they have quietly decided to keep. Whether its federal or provincial - Liberals are liars and hypocrites.
CPP





Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 244
Reputation: 10.5
votes: 1
Location: Too close to Quebec

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crowe_b wrote:
As far as I can tell from what I am told many of the reforms to welfare and other assistance programs that were brought in by the Harris government are still around after 6 years of Dolton - all those policies that the Liberals howled about for all those Harris years they have quietly decided to keep. Whether its federal or provincial - Liberals are liars and hypocrites.


Your right as some feel that Premier McSlippery is really a closet Tory with the only difference being that he raises taxes while Harris lowered them. Well, except for the Federal Conservative government pushing the HST on provinces which will increase taxes on those items previously exempted the PST.

But many in Ontario and most certainly Toronto have not forgot the negative aspects of the Harris government as previously discussed. Probably why only about 50% of registered voters in Ontario exercised their right during the last provincial election.
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 7479
Reputation: 299.1
votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CPP wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
Let me summarize Rae's tenure in Ontario.

Prior to the 1990 election, we knew that there would be a deficit. Peterson's Liberals prepared us for the worst with a $700 million deficit after Rae took office the deficit at the end of the fiscal year was 2.5 billion.

The Rae governments first budget came with a projected a record deficit of $9.1 billion, which was suppose to protect or create 70,000 jobs, by ignoring businesses and spending most of the money on social programs.

Rae placed a cap on medical school enrollment, because goodness knows we don't need doctors.

He then froze the construction and planning of any new Nuclear Power plants in Ontario and replaced them with power generated by....Nothing.

He was opposed to Sunday Shopping.

And when he finally left office, we had a record debt left behind.

While Harris seems to be unloved by the left wing masses, he did what he promised in his 1995 platform.

He cut the social spending we simply could not afford, he returned social assistance to the levels it was prior to Rae, and he cut all personal income tax brackets to pre-1990 levels (basically a 30% cut) in the first year he was in office.

His unpopularity comes from the fact that he cut government spending to the bone, getting rid of nurses and other government workers that we simply could not have afforded without further increasing the debt load.

Once the budget was balanced, and the economy was looking better toward the end of his first term he increased health spending to record levels to counter transfer cuts from the federal government, and hired new nurses.

The problem with Rae was that his government did wide reaching damage, and that is why he is unpopular in Ontario.

Harris' unpopularity spans from his clashes with the Unions and the squeaky wheel gets the grease mentality of the left and their always complaining mentality,

But all and all, he did what was promised.
Have a look at the 1995 platform, while it wasn't 100% keeping promises he did do a lot of it, balance the budgets and helped counteract the lost of revenue from the feds reducing the transfer payments.


Your right in that Harris did everything he said he would and then some. But in some ways he took the easy way out by down loading many provincial responsibilities to the municipalities.
Again, the very unpopular move of amalgamating Toronto's seven cities into one, probably sealed the Tories fate for sometime in obtaining seats in Toronto.


Harris balanced the books by any means necessary, and after Bob Rae's mess I have little issue with how Harris did it as long as it was done quickly.

As for the concept of the Megacity, I would be interested in a poll of if people would want to return to the way it was with all the various cities around Toronto?
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