Home FAQ Search Memberlist User Groups Register Login   

BloggingTories.ca Forum IndexBloggingTories.ca Forum Index
    Index     FAQ     Search     Register     Login         JOIN THE DISCUSSION - CLICK HERE      

*NEW* Login or register using your Facebook account.

Not a member? Join the fastest growing conservative community!
Membership is free and takes 15 seconds


CLICK HERE or use Facebook to login or register ----> Connect



Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next  

This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Page 5 of 7
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:

Craig wrote:
You can neither prove nor disprove this statement.

Neither can you. If the law is a success, why are there still people taking drugs? I can't believe I'm using this line but what the hey!! :wink:
Jean Chretien wrote:
"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven."


-Mac


Along the same logic - If speeding is against the law, the law isn't working because people still speed.

Murder is illegal, but the laws dont work, people still murder

rape is illegal, but the laws dont work, people still rape..

and it continues and continues..

just because a law might not work all the time, doesn't mean we should say "its ok to do it" to these activities..
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The moment someone uses public health care they forfeit the right to do whatever the hell they want to their bodies. If they want to sign a public health care waver they can smoke it all they want. Do we have a deal?

Quote:
If the reason to ban a something is to protect people against harm, why stop at pot? This argument can be ridiculous in the extreme.


All laws can be applied to the extreme. All arguments can be applied to the extreme. This statement contributes nothing to the debate.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My objection to marihuana and other prohibitions is because of the authoritarian nature of the prohibition. FWIW, I do take issue with speeding laws, seat belt laws and the hundreds of other ways that governments try to legislate common sense and prudence... and you should too! Do you want to be "handled" from cradle to grave by faceless bureaucrats? I don't enjoy or approve of the "nanny state" tendencies of government.

Now you're talking about forfeiting the rights to do whatever the hell we want to do with our bodies. Where does this end? Socialism or Totalitarianism? I thought this was a conservative website!! :oops:

-Mac
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the group pays for your bodies problems - you should forfeit the right to destroy it. When you pay for it - go right ahead...

I agree completely.

This is why I've stated time and again that decrim. of possession is the best solution - We send the message that drug usage is wrong, and still crack down on the trafickers. We earn money off these people instead of jailing them at a cost.

Laws exist to allow the smooth running of society.

Too many people want to have their cake(freedom to do anything they see fit) and eat it too(free health-care, government education, child care, etc...)
Without the laws and boundaries we have established in this and any country, we could not enjoy the things that make this country great...

If we didn't have speeding laws, MORE people would speed - or at the very least, those who did would speed faster.

drinking and driving - if it were legal, more would do it - or they may not be so careful about doing it

Rape - well this is a no brainer - it would be widespread like it was 500 years ago.

Murder - I'd be rich, cause i'd murder you all and take everything from you..

"Do you want to be "handled" from cradle to grave by faceless bureaucrats?"

this bothers me - I mean, you're stating this on a website where you're speaking freely.. you can say absolutely anything you want aside from some pretty seriously wrong things, and you can actually suggest something like this? This isn't nazi germany... Its Canada - and if its that bad in this country - what are you doing here? I'd be leaving if I felt like I was nothing but a government puppet..
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 539
Reputation: 93.9Reputation: 93.9
votes: 3
Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
The moment someone uses public health care they forfeit the right to do whatever the hell they want to their bodies. If they want to sign a public health care waver they can smoke it all they want.


I have always thought that is a good idea. Mess up your liver because you are an alcoholic - pay for it your self. Get an abscess because you keep poking your self with needles for of heroine - pay for it your self. Get lung cancer because you smoke cigarettes or pot - pay for it your self. Injuries because of mountain biking, skiing, etc - pay for it your self.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps we should go to a user-pay system completely. Since I don't smoke, drink or do drug, why should I have to pay for health care which I don't use?

-Mac
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good to me..

of course, you had better have a perfect diet as well ;)
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 539
Reputation: 93.9Reputation: 93.9
votes: 3
Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

User pay for self inflicted health issues. I wonder how many people will be putting the smoke of burning plants into their lungs then. :wink:
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/Arti.....hub=Canada

- puzzling doctors? Its not like this hasn't been happening for 10 years! ;)
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palomino_pony wrote:
User pay for self inflicted health issues. I wonder how many people will be putting the smoke of burning plants into their lungs then. :wink:

Where do you draw the line on that? The fastest growing health problem is obesity. Are you gonna say anyone who has a health issue as a result of poor diet and/or lack of exercise will be told they have to pay for their own medical treatment too? Wait- biggie already sorta covered this.

All of these issues are addictions which are (I hate repeating myself) medical and psychological problems. By the illogic of prohibition, all tobacco products should be prohibited. All products containing alcohol should be prohibited. All foods which aren't healthy should be prohibited. Computers should be prohibited (my wife definitely agrees with this one) because they cause people to sit and blog.

Before anyone trots out more trite statements about rape and murder, both of those examples are inflicting harm on others, acts which by their nature must be outlawed. Smoking, drinking, doing drugs are all acts which harm no-one but the person who makes the choice to engage in such activities. I have never suggested we ignore pernicious activities. What I'm saying is let's invest our time, energy and resources to developing effective strategies to deal with them. Criminalization does not appear to be an effective strategy.

-Mac
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
Now you're talking about forfeiting the rights to do whatever the hell we want to do with our bodies. Where does this end? Socialism or Totalitarianism? I thought this was a conservative website!! :oops:


No. I'm talking about forfeiting your right to do whatever you want to your body IF I HAVE TO PAY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES. We DO live in a socialist society. Get rid of the socialism and you CAN do whatever the hell you want to your body.
Buddy Kat





Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 94
Reputation: 24.6Reputation: 24.6
votes: 1
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie rection wrote:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/Arti.....hub=Canada

- puzzling doctors? Its not like this hasn't been happening for 10 years! ;)



Carbon Monoxide - RespiraTORY toxin (sorry coudn't resist)

Respiratory toxins affect the breathing system when inhaled. Affecting nasal passages,pharnyx, trachea, bronchi and LUNGS. This toxin can cause both acute and chronic illnesses such as bronchitus, pulmonory fibrosis, emphysema, CANCER and general breathing problems.

As irritants they can also increase the severity and incidence of respiratory infections and aggravate asthma.

Oh they know what causes what and how , they are just in a state of denial. Plus they don't want to start a panic. Imagine the ramifications.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
No. I'm talking about forfeiting your right to do whatever you want to your body IF I HAVE TO PAY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES. We DO live in a socialist society. Get rid of the socialism and you CAN do whatever the hell you want to your body.


Sorry, I don't ascribe to any political philosophy that involves forfeiting rights... and neither should you. Incidentally, do you think I might be paying too? We could compare our tax returns if you like... :cry:

If this is truly your vision of Canada... a country where the government takes away all individual liberties, freedoms and choice and socialism is accepted and embraced, why do you call your forum "Blogging Tories" since Tories oppose socialism?

The Liberals since Trudeau have been trying to warp our democracy into socialism but they haven't completely succeeded yet. The Dippers would take us even further to the left. I hope the Conservatives can reverse this and restore some of the liberties which were stolen from us.

Quote:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin, from his 'Historical Review of Pennsylvania' 1759

Quote:
"Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual who can labor in freedom."
~Albert Einstein, from his 'Out of My Later Years' 1950


-Mac
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drinking and smoking don't cause harm to others? I seem to recall the recent smoking laws passed in ontario and quebec citing second hand smoke as a reason for further outlawing its use in public places...

Drinking can cause harm to others, much like marijuana users who are acting while in an un-sober state can.

The real problem lies in the seedy under-belly of marijuana grow-ops and the drug trade. Will eliminating prohibition end this? Possibly.. Or, will it just continue? Possibly as well.

Unlike some, I don't think its a huge issue either way, I think we should make it decriminalized - for possession. This would satisfy both sides of the argument - the lowly smoker doesn't have to worry about it, and the dealers still have to be careful what they do.

Question - If it were legal, what would the penalty be for growing and selling it?
One thing that is constantly stated is that we would do better if we controlled and regulated it... Well, I don't frankly see the difference - oh, wait, the price would likely go up for the very end-user's who are complaining today...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it were legal there would be no penalties for growing or selling it, that's the whole idea. Pot would no longer be worth its weight in gold. Grievances could be settled in court instead of with a baseball bat. Anybody who wanted some could grow enough for themselves, maybe grow a little extra and they could trade their neighbor for some pickeral fillets, or some eggs and milk?
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Page 5 of 7

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next  


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


A lot of money

phpBBCopyright 2001, 2005 phpBB