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cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Question,

The ads that attacked Harper as a Pro-American/Anti-Healthcare type of leader back in 2002 are still resonating in the back of the minds of Canadians to this day.

Attack Ads on the front end are always viewed as negative,
yet six months later when you poll people on their opinion of the leader who was attacked they will regurgitate what they heard in the ad nearly verbatim.

Negative ads have been successful because they effectively plant a seed or an idea, and giving Canadians their first "introduction" to leader X.

You paint Dion as a "wimp" and the second he abstained he solidified that image.
You paint Iggy as a power hungry American who is only here to be Prime Minister, the second he pushes for an election he solidified that image.

Was Dion really a wimp? is Iggy really a power hungry American?
It doesn't matter.

The Just Visiting Ads painted Iggy as an "Out of Touch Elitist Urbanite" months ago, and what does over 70% of the Canadian populous think of the guy?

Out of Touch Elitist Urbanite
Roger Langille





Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 148
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votes: 2

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
No Question,

The ads that attacked Harper as a Pro-American/Anti-Healthcare type of leader back in 2002 are still resonating in the back of the minds of Canadians to this day.

Attack Ads on the front end are always viewed as negative,
yet six months later when you poll people on their opinion of the leader who was attacked they will regurgitate what they heard in the ad nearly verbatim.

Negative ads have been successful because they effectively plant a seed or an idea, and giving Canadians their first "introduction" to leader X.

You paint Dion as a "wimp" and the second he abstained he solidified that image.
You paint Iggy as a power hungry American who is only here to be Prime Minister, the second he pushes for an election he solidified that image.

Was Dion really a wimp? is Iggy really a power hungry American?
It doesn't matter.

The Just Visiting Ads painted Iggy as an "Out of Touch Elitist Urbanite" months ago, and what does over 70% of the Canadian populous think of the guy?

Out of Touch Elitist Urbanite


Bull
No one had to paint Dion as anything everyone in this country could see and hear for them selfs.

Your story makes no sence what so ever !
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger Langille wrote:
I would like to note then it was not untill after the negative stopped that the Tory Party started to gain in the polls!

No negative adds do not work, they just insult the people !

I'm sorry but you are mistaken. The ads which helped define Dion and Iggy were so barely negative that they didn't qualify as attack ads... and the results are evident in the continued Liberal slump.

-Mac
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
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Location: The World

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger Langille wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
No Question,

The ads that attacked Harper as a Pro-American/Anti-Healthcare type of leader back in 2002 are still resonating in the back of the minds of Canadians to this day.

Attack Ads on the front end are always viewed as negative,
yet six months later when you poll people on their opinion of the leader who was attacked they will regurgitate what they heard in the ad nearly verbatim.

Negative ads have been successful because they effectively plant a seed or an idea, and giving Canadians their first "introduction" to leader X.

You paint Dion as a "wimp" and the second he abstained he solidified that image.
You paint Iggy as a power hungry American who is only here to be Prime Minister, the second he pushes for an election he solidified that image.

Was Dion really a wimp? is Iggy really a power hungry American?
It doesn't matter.

The Just Visiting Ads painted Iggy as an "Out of Touch Elitist Urbanite" months ago, and what does over 70% of the Canadian populous think of the guy?

Out of Touch Elitist Urbanite


Bull
No one had to paint Dion as anything everyone in this country could see and hear for them selfs.

Your story makes no sence what so ever !


There really is no point in either of us arguing "opinion",
My thoughts on the effectiveness of Negative Ads is founded solely in the numbers that seem to support that they generally do work.

This is the information my post is based on:

January 18, 2007
Liberal Party of Canada: 37%
Conservative Party of Canada: 33%

Source:
http://www.canada.com/topics/n.....mp;k=63535


January 29th 2007
"Its not Fair" Ads are launched

Source:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story.....-dion.html

One Month of "Outrage Polling" calling the Ads "a dirty tactic"

Source:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/Arti.....b=Politics

http://www.sesresearch.com/lib.....7-T215.pdf

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/181244

Then nearly a month to the day the Ads were launched:

February 27, 2007
CPC: 40%
LPC: 26%

Source:
http://www.angus-reid.com/poll.....emID/14905

And from that point onward the Liberals never escaped the margin of error.

What did Dion do publicly from January 18th 2007 when the Liberals were polling at 37% till February 27rg 2007 when they found themselves at 26%?

Not much, a few small TV interviews and spoke out against the attack ads claiming they were dirty politics.

Now lets have a look @ Iggy

"Just Visiting" makes it debut late May / early June 2009 and run into July 2009

Before the Ads:
LPC: 37.2
CPC: 31.8

Source:
http://www.nanosresearch.com/l.....-T376E.pdf

Month of "Outrage Polling"

http://www.ekospolitics.com/wp.....vised_.pdf

http://www.nanosresearch.com/l.....-T380E.pdf

http://www.ekospolitics.com/wp.....ly-30_.pdf

Then a month and a touch later as Parliament is about to return:
CPC: 34.9%
LPC: 31.9%

Source: http://www.ekospolitics.com/wp.....ust-6_.pdf

Iggy falls behind Layton in "Leader Approval" for the first time.

And once again, the LPC is yet to come outside the margin of error on any poll since.

The same thing can be said for Stephen Harper after the "American Style Healthcare" Ads.

If they didn't work, which they clearly do,
No parties would use them,
Roger Langille





Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 148
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you people so foolish as top think that the Canadian people can not see these people stumbling around, or that they can not see that the liberals flip flop back and forth, we want an election, O the wind is blowing the other way, we don't want an election. Your adds did nothing, nothing at all, believe me they did it to them selfs and it was after the adds stopped running that the Tories got traction., When the PM started letting his hair down so to speak, that is when people started to see Harper as the best option. Now if he will start to back Canadian Industry and Manufacturing in addition to the oil and gas and banks he may very well be the best PM Canada has had and will get his majority come election time. Just so long as he continues to take the high ground and forces the liberals to continue to flip flop and show that they are desperate to get back in power again. Iggy is nothing more then a fallower he is not a leader, he shows that with all the flip flopping and checking the poliical winds.
IsleofBarra





Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 59
Reputation: 57.7
votes: 1
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An ad is not negative when it states the truth. Opponents will attack an ad for being neative 'cause they can't handle the truth about their candidate, but that doesn't make it a negative ad.

Just visiting.

The truth is, Iffy is just visiting. And he will go home when his nightmare is over an he wakes up in his big, comfy Harvard bed, far away from that backstabbing SOB Boob Rae.
Roger Langille





Joined: 29 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the parties didn't use this American mud slinging system or the American Advisers I don't think they would use the adds either, for no one else uses them but Canada outside of the US. But then again no other country will allow consultants from outside their country to advise them on their elections. Only Canada and the US do this mud slinging and look at the results every election fewer people vote and more just throw their hands up and refuse to have anything to do with out system.
Roger Langille





Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 148
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
Roger Langille wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
No Question,

The ads that attacked Harper as a Pro-American/Anti-Healthcare type of leader back in 2002 are still resonating in the back of the minds of Canadians to this day.

Attack Ads on the front end are always viewed as negative,
yet six months later when you poll people on their opinion of the leader who was attacked they will regurgitate what they heard in the ad nearly verbatim.

Negative ads have been successful because they effectively plant a seed or an idea, and giving Canadians their first "introduction" to leader X.

You paint Dion as a "wimp" and the second he abstained he solidified that image.
You paint Iggy as a power hungry American who is only here to be Prime Minister, the second he pushes for an election he solidified that image.

Was Dion really a wimp? is Iggy really a power hungry American?
It doesn't matter.

The Just Visiting Ads painted Iggy as an "Out of Touch Elitist Urbanite" months ago, and what does over 70% of the Canadian populous think of the guy?

Out of Touch Elitist Urbanite


Bull
No one had to paint Dion as anything everyone in this country could see and hear for them selfs.

Your story makes no sence what so ever !


There really is no point in either of us arguing "opinion",
My thoughts on the effectiveness of Negative Ads is founded solely in the numbers that seem to support that they generally do work.

This is the information my post is based on:

January 18, 2007
Liberal Party of Canada: 37%
Conservative Party of Canada: 33%

Source:
http://www.canada.com/topics/n.....mp;k=63535


January 29th 2007
"Its not Fair" Ads are launched

Source:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story.....-dion.html

One Month of "Outrage Polling" calling the Ads "a dirty tactic"

Source:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/Arti.....b=Politics

http://www.sesresearch.com/lib.....7-T215.pdf

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/181244

Then nearly a month to the day the Ads were launched:

February 27, 2007
CPC: 40%
LPC: 26%

Source:
http://www.angus-reid.com/poll.....emID/14905

And from that point onward the Liberals never escaped the margin of error.

What did Dion do publicly from January 18th 2007 when the Liberals were polling at 37% till February 27rg 2007 when they found themselves at 26%?

Not much, a few small TV interviews and spoke out against the attack ads claiming they were dirty politics.

Now lets have a look @ Iggy

"Just Visiting" makes it debut late May / early June 2009 and run into July 2009

Before the Ads:
LPC: 37.2
CPC: 31.8

Source:
http://www.nanosresearch.com/l.....-T376E.pdf

Month of "Outrage Polling"

http://www.ekospolitics.com/wp.....vised_.pdf

http://www.nanosresearch.com/l.....-T380E.pdf

http://www.ekospolitics.com/wp.....ly-30_.pdf

Then a month and a touch later as Parliament is about to return:
CPC: 34.9%
LPC: 31.9%

Source: http://www.ekospolitics.com/wp.....ust-6_.pdf

Iggy falls behind Layton in "Leader Approval" for the first time.

And once again, the LPC is yet to come outside the margin of error on any poll since.

The same thing can be said for Stephen Harper after the "American Style Healthcare" Ads.

If they didn't work, which they clearly do,
No parties would use them,


Speaking of people who can not take their eyes off the polls
This is exactly what Canadians don't like !
Roger Langille





Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 148
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to point out that according to the polls Paul Martin should be Prime Minister as he was ahead in the polls when he called the election, if he had of concentrated on doing the Job and Building this Great Nation instead of watching the Polls he would be Prime Minister.

But we all know how that worked out don't we, so the polls are worthless, good for today at best !Long term leadership, actions produce votes, Look at Trudeau he did't watch or care about the polls at all, how many times was he elected PM, how many years was he PM for.
IsleofBarra





Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 59
Reputation: 57.7
votes: 1
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have not had a good laugh if you haven't seen an Aussie negative attack ad, or a Brit one for that matter. Attack ads are not new to politics or exclusive to North America.

I agree about the trend to introduce American-style campaign techiques by the lieberals. Every since Mac Kenzie King was in the pay of the Rockefellers, and guys like fired Iffy Chief of Staff Ian Davey's old man (the Senator) and now Harvard snob Iffy, Conservatives have been fighting to preserve that which is uniquely Canadian and keep our democratic, parliamentary traditions.

The myth of Paul Martin was the figment of a guy like Donolo. Once canadians got a closer look, it was evident the emperor had no clothes.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger Langille wrote:
Are you people so foolish as top think that the Canadian people can not see these people stumbling around, or that they can not see that the liberals flip flop back and forth, we want an election, O the wind is blowing the other way, we don't want an election. Your adds did nothing, nothing at all, believe me they did it to them selfs and it was after the adds stopped running that the Tories got traction., When the PM started letting his hair down so to speak, that is when people started to see Harper as the best option. Now if he will start to back Canadian Industry and Manufacturing in addition to the oil and gas and banks he may very well be the best PM Canada has had and will get his majority come election time. Just so long as he continues to take the high ground and forces the liberals to continue to flip flop and show that they are desperate to get back in power again. Iggy is nothing more then a fallower he is not a leader, he shows that with all the flip flopping and checking the poliical winds.

Yet that same guy who you say could be the best PM Canada has had was the one who approved the negative ads.

Can you substantiate your position whatsoever, Roger? You've offered nothing more than your opinion. Better yet, what type of proof would it take to convince you that ads which define (as these one do) are effective?

-Mac
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger Langille wrote:
I would like to point out that according to the polls Paul Martin should be Prime Minister as he was ahead in the polls when he called the election, if he had of concentrated on doing the Job and Building this Great Nation instead of watching the Polls he would be Prime Minister.

But we all know how that worked out don't we, so the polls are worthless, good for today at best !Long term leadership, actions produce votes, Look at Trudeau he did't watch or care about the polls at all, how many times was he elected PM, how many years was he PM for.


That is incorrect.

Paul Martin called the 2004 election that he won.

It was the three opposition parties that passed a motion of non-confidence that prompted the 2006 election, that he lost.
Roger Langille





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
Roger Langille wrote:
I would like to point out that according to the polls Paul Martin should be Prime Minister as he was ahead in the polls when he called the election, if he had of concentrated on doing the Job and Building this Great Nation instead of watching the Polls he would be Prime Minister.

But we all know how that worked out don't we, so the polls are worthless, good for today at best !Long term leadership, actions produce votes, Look at Trudeau he did't watch or care about the polls at all, how many times was he elected PM, how many years was he PM for.


That is incorrect.

Paul Martin called the 2004 election that he won.



It was the NDP and they wanted a deal that Martin refused to give because his Liberal Back Room gang thought that they could win as he was ahead in the polls, Like I said if he had have conserned himself with Building this Great Nation instead of looking for more power he would have actully got the power and won the next election, instead Mr Harper is now the PM and is likely thinking the vert same thing as Martin was. I hope he does not make the same mistake that Martin did. He should not look at a single poll or consern himself with them at all, just consern him self with doing the job of Building This Great Nation, believe me the people will be watching and Action allways speaks louder then Words !
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
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Location: The World

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger Langille wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
Roger Langille wrote:
I would like to point out that according to the polls Paul Martin should be Prime Minister as he was ahead in the polls when he called the election, if he had of concentrated on doing the Job and Building this Great Nation instead of watching the Polls he would be Prime Minister.

But we all know how that worked out don't we, so the polls are worthless, good for today at best !Long term leadership, actions produce votes, Look at Trudeau he did't watch or care about the polls at all, how many times was he elected PM, how many years was he PM for.


That is incorrect.

Paul Martin called the 2004 election that he won.



It was the NDP and they wanted a deal that Martin refused to give because his Liberal Back Room gang thought that they could win as he was ahead in the polls, Like I said if he had have conserned himself with Building this Great Nation instead of looking for more power he would have actully got the power and won the next election, instead Mr Harper is now the PM and is likely thinking the vert same thing as Martin was. I hope he does not make the same mistake that Martin did. He should not look at a single poll or consern himself with them at all, just consern him self with doing the job of Building This Great Nation, believe me the people will be watching and Action allways speaks louder then Words !


Not prior to the 2004 election whereas Martin had inherited Jean Chrétien majority and had ultimate control over when to call an election.

The deal with the NDP was to prop up the 2005 budget.
TorontoCon





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Negative ads work.

If they didn't, parties wouldn't use them.

They CAN backfire though so they should be very well thought out.
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