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Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forward wrote:
Jack Layton's military record speaks for itself.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

-Mac
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
I have always been amazed that conservatives, who usually believe in individual rather than collective rights and responsibilities, would believe in collective responsibility when it comes to Muslims. I guess when you're not the one being targeted...


I believe in my individual right to fly in an airplane without fear of colliding with a skyscraper. I believe in a woman's right to sing and laugh whenever she wants. I believe in a woman's right to wear anything she wants.

I also believe that nations serve as settlements for like-minded individuals.

I also believe that non-citizens do not have the RIGHT to enter our country.
queenmandy85





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 224
Reputation: 94.4Reputation: 94.4
votes: 2
Location: Saskatoon

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You ask if I am a convert, Mr. James. As a Conservative, I am Anglican, or as it was known not too long ago, The One True Faith.
Members of the Church of England have been no strangers to a religion that preaches hate. Under the late Queen Mary, we were rounded up and burned at the stake.
In the perspective of history, that was fairly recent. Do we still resent it. Some do. These issues have a long life as can be seen in Ulster. I recently read an article by a Roman Catholic writer praising Queen Mary.
My Argument is that the crusades are over, the reformation is over and it is time for us to live together. I know a lot of moslems on Campus (U of Saskatchewan), and they are nothing like the boogymen you are describing.
We deal with criminals as we find them. As Conservatives, we believe that everyone is an individual and responsible for their own actions.
And Layton is an ass. What is he got to do with this issue.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
I have always been amazed that conservatives, who usually believe in individual rather than collective rights and responsibilities, would believe in collective responsibility when it comes to Muslims. I guess when you're not the one being targeted...


We don't believe in collective responsibility,we expect individual responsibility. We believe that individuals, which make up the community, stand up and say "this individual does not support religious hate".

As Thatcher said; "there's no such thing as society". Society is just a group of individuals.

A Liberal friend of mine posted on facebook that he passed a homeless person and was ashamed at how society had let him down.

I replied that society didn't let him down, you yourself as an individual let him down. This Liberal could have stopped and gave the homeless person money, or shelter. But instead he walked by and blamed some faceless "society".

There is no "society", only individuals. "Society" is just an excuse some individuals use to avoid personal responsibility as individuals.
Edmund Onward James





Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 1317
Reputation: 55
votes: 2

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bogyman? I am friendly with Salim Mansur, Professor of Political Science University of Western Ontario. I would strongly suggest you read some of his pieces, check the archives.

One of the major problems of the infestation is in the universities, and academe allowing it, as a matter of fact promoting Islam.

And as far as the Muslims are concerened the Crusade isn't over. The leaders think that they are the new Salah al Din (the full name is much longer but you will know him as Saladin). Of course, there are Muslims who just wish to survive. But they would be far better changing their religion and leaders, and culture, and political stance. We of the west had to help them and will have to continue to help and watch over their successes and failures. Remember, the Muslim ideology thinks in centuries, whereas we think in days, months, years. The core believes a new caliphate will be recreated. Hence, they tell the people: Spread out and procreate. We will outlast them.

Since you are Anglican, queenmandy, and reasonable I will refrain fom my wordsmith repartee, but I do hope you do not suffer the Neville Chamberlain syndrome.


Last edited by Edmund Onward James on Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

queenmandy85 wrote:

If Quebec or Alberta were to try to separate from Canada, would not loyalists resort to terrorism to try to stop them?


We'd be too busy celebrating.
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
queenmandy85 wrote:

If Quebec or Alberta were to try to separate from Canada, would not loyalists resort to terrorism to try to stop them?


We'd be too busy celebrating.


I'd be packing for Alberta.
Edmund Onward James





Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 1317
Reputation: 55
votes: 2

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue, I do not mind Alberta at all, and the French are... well they're still trying to win wars they have lost, including the battle of languages. English is the number one in the world.

Furthermore, the First Nations would not allow them such easy access to the water and electricity, amongst a few other things.

As far as I am concerned they can stay but the funding of the BLOC has got to stop.

That Shawinigan Manipulator got what he wanted when he established the donations cap... but that too may backfire... and the Conservatives might win a majority. Have faith or get a life.
queenmandy85





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 224
Reputation: 94.4Reputation: 94.4
votes: 2
Location: Saskatoon

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not intend to side track this debate into a separtist argument. The issue is there is no excuse for hate.Just because others hate, doesn't mean we should. It is corrosive and futile.
Terrorism only succeeds if we give in to it. Remember, more people died in car accidents on Sept. 11, 2001, than died in the terrorist acts.
The attack was a criminal act and we have responded. I would rather the response was a lot more vigourous, but NATO never asked for my opinion.
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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votes: 36

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

queenmandy85 wrote:
I did not intend to side track this debate into a separtist argument. The issue is there is no excuse for hate.Just because others hate, doesn't mean we should. It is corrosive and futile.
Terrorism only succeeds if we give in to it. Remember, more people died in car accidents on Sept. 11, 2001, than died in the terrorist acts.
The attack was a criminal act and we have responded. I would rather the response was a lot more vigourous, but NATO never asked for my opinion.


What a bunch of meaningless platitudes! I HATE platitudes.

Quote:
Terrorism only succeeds if we give in to it. Remember, more people died in car accidents on Sept. 11, 2001, than died in the terrorist acts.


And billions of dollars have been invested in vehicle safety. We profile against cars that tend to be more dangerous.
Edmund Onward James





Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 1317
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votes: 2

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig, it will get worse, wait until the apologists and appeasers, the Muslim organizations paid for by Saudis or Iranians, start with their platitudes. Or complaints to the Human Rights Commission.

queen-whatever compares such obtuse examples that perhaps he or she ought to go on a mission to the Middle East and North Africa and let them know the statistics.
gc





Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 1698
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votes: 16
Location: A Monochromatic World

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:
It they donít want to be profiled, then maybe they should stand with us and demand that people not kill in the name of Allah.

This is precisely what I am talking about.
If person A is a Muslim and commits terrorism, and person B also happens to be Muslim, why does person B have anything to do with what A did.
Do you feel at all responsible every time a white person beats up a minority out of racism? Do you feel at all responsible every time a straight person beats up a homosexual out of homophobia? Should I speak out every time someone with brown hair commits a crime because I also happen to have brown hair?
gc





Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 1698
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votes: 16
Location: A Monochromatic World

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
There is no "society", only individuals. "Society" is just an excuse some individuals use to avoid personal responsibility as individuals.

Exactly. Muslim society is not committing crimes, Muslim individuals are. Therefore, we should hold Muslim individuals, not Muslim society accountable.
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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votes: 6

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:


. I believe in a woman's right to sing and laugh whenever she wants. I believe in a woman's right to wear anything she wants.


Do you think a man has the right to wear anything he wants ? :-) You seem to be objecting to men wearing goofy costumes earlier.
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
SFrank85 wrote:
It they donít want to be profiled, then maybe they should stand with us and demand that people not kill in the name of Allah.

This is precisely what I am talking about.
If person A is a Muslim and commits terrorism, and person B also happens to be Muslim, why does person B have anything to do with what A did.
Do you feel at all responsible every time a white person beats up a minority out of racism? Do you feel at all responsible every time a straight person beats up a homosexual out of homophobia? Should I speak out every time someone with brown hair commits a crime because I also happen to have brown hair?


I'm sorry but you seem to be trying too hard to be SO obtuse, its silly and laughable that you can't grasp or some how do not have the ability to understand a relatively simple concept. Perhaps you do not belong to a church or have a religious community?



If you think brown haired folks are committing crimes and claiming it on behalf of you and all your brown haired brethren and the big brown haired guy, in the name of your recognized brown haired organization, then yes you bet your ass you need to stand up loudly and denounce these brown haired folks as NOT being representative of the brown haired group,your brown haired beliefs that you and others peacefully love and can't live with out.

Denounce it or you and your brown haired friends and your brown haired organization wear it.
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