Home FAQ Search Memberlist User Groups Register Login   

BloggingTories.ca Forum IndexBloggingTories.ca Forum Index
    Index     FAQ     Search     Register     Login         JOIN THE DISCUSSION - CLICK HERE      

*NEW* Login or register using your Facebook account.

Not a member? Join the fastest growing conservative community!
Membership is free and takes 15 seconds


CLICK HERE or use Facebook to login or register ----> Connect



Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  

Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 5
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:19 am    Post subject: I need some help here. Reply with quote

The health care debate in the US has got me thinking. The only group of people, that I can say with certainty, that the political left would not pull the plug on are criminals. But I figure I must be missing something, because that simply cannot be right. Has their ideology become so twisted that grandma is just too expensive to keep alive, but Manson is at heart a good person and must be given a chance at rehabilitation?
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you talking about these “Death Committees” that Sarah Palin is talking about?

The thing is I wish we were able to have a debate in Canada over healthcare, but the left is trying to stifle debate…surprise…surprise.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For better or for worse, the left, and the Democrats in particular have branded themselves as the party that pulled the plug on Schiavo, the party of assisted suicide, the party of euthanasia, and the party of Roe v. Wade. When the leader of that party says he would not pull the plug on your grandma, it simply is not credible. That is what I am talking about here.

Sarah Palin probably has it right. And after the death committees are up and running, how long before the abortion committees, the guys who say that baby will be defective and must not be allowed to be born? How long before Logan's Run?

PS. When the leader of that party says government dollars would not fund abortions, it is also not credible. Roe v. Wade has been mentioned in every stump speech of every Democrat contender for the last 30 years, and only now it seems can they see the downside of that.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent piece on this very subject today, via SDA.

http://newledger.com/2009/08/t.....i-schiavo/
KerryForrest





Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 16
Reputation: 2.8Reputation: 2.8
Location: Renfrew, On

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The topic has come up in Quebec Healthcare circles. Interesting enough in a historically strong catholic province, really.


I'm not on a side on this issue yet, mainly I believe in personal choice in all personal matters. Protecting people from being strong armed mentally or physically is the real issue. How that is accomplished when pressures to unburden the healthcare system or families of the strain in the last days are already being exerted without legal sanction, I do not know.

So I say, since it would be next to impossible to ensure clear choice on the matter, we should not legalize it. Its anathema to my ideology, standing against free choice, but I do see great dangers in this path. In a country where the law calls for no discrimination based on age, etc., what is to stop teenage angst from becoming an acceptable, constitutionally protected, reason to end one's life. When life will get better in time.
Alan A.





Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 237
Reputation: 22.4Reputation: 22.4
votes: 4
Location: Western Canada

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
(...) And after the death committees are up and running, how long before the abortion committees, the guys who say that baby will be defective and must not be allowed to be born?


Aside from any religious beliefs and dogmas... I was sitting next to an autistic teenager in a park the other day, with her mother trying to make her move along. She would yell and cry constantly, and not move at all. Fifteen minutes later, the situation was still the same when I left the premises. The mother was still trying to "reason" her. A freakin' burden for everybody, including herself and her poor mother, for life. I wonder if her mother would agree or not that we should think about eliminating humanely some people and babies --or babies to be-- in some circumstances. Maybe some "liberals" have a point here.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan A., what you are talking about is called Eugenics. It is not a new idea, and it has been popular with such luminaries as Tommy Douglas and others of the political left for decades.

Ayn Rand apparently said that the ultimate goal of collectivism was death.
Alan A.





Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 237
Reputation: 22.4Reputation: 22.4
votes: 4
Location: Western Canada

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Alan A., what you are talking about is called Eugenics. It is not a new idea, and it has been popular with such luminaries as Tommy Douglas and others of the political left for decades.

Ayn Rand apparently said that the ultimate goal of collectivism was death.


Not a new idea of course. It doesn't mean it's not worthy of consideration.

As for the "political left" label: between black and white... you know the saying, shades of grey... Besides, it is very annoying, on both sides of the right-or-left fence, that every comment that is not conventional or in line with the given ideology, is always seen by someone as an impurity. I like to think freely so labels and classifications don't stick to me. Cheers!
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose the government liquidating people is all well and good, as long as reasonable people that personally agree with are the ones in charge of deciding which fetuses are defective and such. Once you buy into the idea though, then when do you know it is time to stop? What happens when the bureaucrats stop making decisions that you agree with?

Why is abortion OK, but the death penalty is not? One of the reason I always hear to justify abortion, is how those children are unwanted, and will just grow up to be burdens and criminals anyway. How is it that peopl can justify aborting a criminal, but not putting one down? You simply are not answering any question here, lefty.

PS. WW2 was pretty much fought over the whole idea of eugenics, and what limits should be on the power of the state, so I think that Eugenics really is an idea that is not worthy of discussion. Seriously, autism is one of the things that would have got you sterilized and/or loaded on a train back in the day in Germany.
KerryForrest





Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 16
Reputation: 2.8Reputation: 2.8
Location: Renfrew, On

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Alan A., what you are talking about is called Eugenics. It is not a new idea, and it has been popular with such luminaries as Tommy Douglas and others of the political left for decades.

Ayn Rand apparently said that the ultimate goal of collectivism was death.


I think it was more that individualism was a promotion of life philosophy, while collectivism was the denial of what makes human life possible, but I guess that's close enough logically. A system that denies life is approximately equal to a system with a goal of death.

After all, to deny reason, the only advantage humans have over animals in the battle of survival is to deny life.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Translation:
Quote:

60,000 Reich Marks. This is what this person suffering from hereditary defects costs the Community of Germans during his lifetime. Fellow Citizen, that is your money, too


Luckily for the Germans the socialists had a "final solution" for this problem.
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan A. wrote:


Aside from any religious beliefs and dogmas... I was sitting next to an autistic teenager in a park the other day, with her mother trying to make her move along. She would yell and cry constantly, and not move at all. Fifteen minutes later, the situation was still the same when I left the premises. The mother was still trying to "reason" her. A freakin' burden for everybody, including herself and her poor mother, for life. I wonder if her mother would agree or not that we should think about eliminating humanely some people and babies --or babies to be-- in some circumstances. Maybe some "liberals" have a point here.


As a parent that has adopted several so called "unadoptables" I find this post offensive in it's selfish inability to see beyond the Norm and all the glory that medium, picture perfect postcard family brings to a humdrum normal life.

Children are almost ALWAYS a gift. You may not have the stomach or stuffing required to see it, live it, but be assured there are many who do..
gc





Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 1698
Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4
votes: 16
Location: A Monochromatic World

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really believe that the government is going to kill grandma?
How can there ever be a serious debate about health care when the right-wing comes up with such crazy conspiracy theories?
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a nice strawman, but you know damn well what people mean when they say that. The truth is, under a single payer universal system, access to health care for seniors is heavily rationed, in terms of both quality and quantity. The only way to control costs is to reduce services, and people over 70 require a lot of services. When the government centrally plans and chooses what kind of circumstances allow treatment X, while banning people from going outside the system, they are making decisions that result in people's death, well in advance of decisions made by physicians and patients.
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
You really believe that the government is going to kill grandma?
How can there ever be a serious debate about health care when the right-wing comes up with such crazy conspiracy theories?


You mean, how can we have a serious debate about health care when we accuse you of having a hidden agenda?
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 5

Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


I need some help here.

phpBBCopyright 2001, 2005 phpBB