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marklar





Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 186
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votes: 1
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TorontoCon wrote:
Would Hudak legislate the Toronto city strikers back to work? Would he move to privatize some of the "city services" such as child care, city-run pools and garbage collection?


I believe he said he wouldn't legislate an end, and that it was a Toronto issue.

I don't think the premier can decide how the city runs it's various services (ie] privatize garbage collection), can they?
CPP





Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 244
Reputation: 10.5
votes: 1
Location: Too close to Quebec

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marklar wrote:
TorontoCon wrote:
Would Hudak legislate the Toronto city strikers back to work? Would he move to privatize some of the "city services" such as child care, city-run pools and garbage collection?


I believe he said he wouldn't legislate an end, and that it was a Toronto issue.

I don't think the premier can decide how the city runs it's various services (ie] privatize garbage collection), can they?


Nope, all Timmy Whodat can do as Premier is to 'download' provincial responsibilities to the municipal level like Harris did :roll:
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
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votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marklar wrote:
TorontoCon wrote:
Would Hudak legislate the Toronto city strikers back to work? Would he move to privatize some of the "city services" such as child care, city-run pools and garbage collection?


I believe he said he wouldn't legislate an end, and that it was a Toronto issue.

I don't think the premier can decide how the city runs it's various services (ie] privatize garbage collection), can they?


Well in actually fact, under our constitution, municipal governments do not exist. They have become provincial statutes. The provincial government can give it, and they can take it away, although I highly doubt any premier in this country will get rid of municipal governments.
CPP





Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 244
Reputation: 10.5
votes: 1
Location: Too close to Quebec

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:
marklar wrote:
TorontoCon wrote:
Would Hudak legislate the Toronto city strikers back to work? Would he move to privatize some of the "city services" such as child care, city-run pools and garbage collection?


I believe he said he wouldn't legislate an end, and that it was a Toronto issue.

I don't think the premier can decide how the city runs it's various services (ie] privatize garbage collection), can they?


Well in actually fact, under our constitution, municipal governments do not exist. They have become provincial statutes. The provincial government can give it, and they can take it away, although I highly doubt any premier in this country will get rid of municipal governments.


Especially now that they perform so many former provincial functions and probably much more economically, well except for Toronto. :roll:
CPP





Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 244
Reputation: 10.5
votes: 1
Location: Too close to Quebec

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Hudak offers few alternatives says paper Reply with quote

Well, I see some papers are already attacking Timmy Whodak as noticed in the July 28th edition of the Ottawa Citizen.
'New PC leader assails premier, but sidesteps questions about how he'd govern differently'
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/b.....story.html
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not from Ontario, but I'm curious - CPP, what exactly is your issue with Hudak? He seems like a pretty good choice for leader. No Hillier, but still, if I was a PCPO member I'd be fairly happy.
CPP





Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 244
Reputation: 10.5
votes: 1
Location: Too close to Quebec

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
I'm not from Ontario, but I'm curious - CPP, what exactly is your issue with Hudak? He seems like a pretty good choice for leader. No Hillier, but still, if I was a PCPO member I'd be fairly happy.


My big issue as an Ontarian is the possibility of him following in the foot steps of former Premier Mikey (download) Harris. If he does, will probably mean that lieberal Premier Dalton McSlippery could win another term.

Many Ontarians still remember the many hospital closures; downloading some provincial responsibilities to the municipal level; vehicle emmision testing with lack of facilities to do so; the unpopular amalgamation of the seven Toronto area cities into one and many other negative things that happened on his watch such as the Walkerton water tragedy, contaminated Alymer meat products caused in part by poor/lack of government oversight and the Ipperwash Park Native tragedy.
I wish Hudak well but he should develope his own policies and go after McSlippery's poor track record, starting now. Right now, Premier McSlippery seems to be 'the Teflon Man' in that nothing seems to be sticking.
chrisreid





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 182
Reputation: 64.1
votes: 5
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CPP wrote:

My big issue as an Ontarian is the possibility of him following in the foot steps of former Premier Mikey (download) Harris. If he does, will probably mean that lieberal Premier Dalton McSlippery could win another term.

Many Ontarians still remember the many hospital closures; downloading some provincial responsibilities to the municipal level; vehicle emmision testing with lack of facilities to do so; the unpopular amalgamation of the seven Toronto area cities into one and many other negative things that happened on his watch such as the Walkerton water tragedy, contaminated Alymer meat products caused in part by poor/lack of government oversight and the Ipperwash Park Native tragedy.
I wish Hudak well but he should develope his own policies and go after McSlippery's poor track record, starting now. Right now, Premier McSlippery seems to be 'the Teflon Man' in that nothing seems to be sticking.


You're such a great cheerleader for conservatism CPP :-)
You don't want Tim Hudak to follow Mike Harris, who won 2 majority governments. Who would you rather he model? The Wildly popular Ernie Eves who the Red Tories in the PC Party claime was "Dalton McGuinty's worst nightmare"? (Then went on to lose the election in 2004) Or maybe the likeable, but unelectable John Tory?

Mike Harris was re-elected to a majority government in 1999 AFTER the amalgmation of Toronto, and other municipalities, as well as hospital re-structuring. The ONLY people upset at Mike Harris were the unions, and media pundits.

Don't confuse what pundits in newspaper say with what voters may or may not be looking for.
teenagetory





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 369
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Location: Halifax

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or another way to put it. "What happens in editorials stays in editorials."
Well maybe Chantal Hebert's comlumns don't, but she's the exception rather than the rule.
CPP





Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 244
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Location: Too close to Quebec

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisreid wrote:
CPP wrote:

My big issue as an Ontarian is the possibility of him following in the foot steps of former Premier Mikey (download) Harris. If he does, will probably mean that lieberal Premier Dalton McSlippery could win another term.

Many Ontarians still remember the many hospital closures; downloading some provincial responsibilities to the municipal level; vehicle emmision testing with lack of facilities to do so; the unpopular amalgamation of the seven Toronto area cities into one and many other negative things that happened on his watch such as the Walkerton water tragedy, contaminated Alymer meat products caused in part by poor/lack of government oversight and the Ipperwash Park Native tragedy.
I wish Hudak well but he should develope his own policies and go after McSlippery's poor track record, starting now. Right now, Premier McSlippery seems to be 'the Teflon Man' in that nothing seems to be sticking.


You're such a great cheerleader for conservatism CPP :-)
You don't want Tim Hudak to follow Mike Harris, who won 2 majority governments. Who would you rather he model? The Wildly popular Ernie Eves who the Red Tories in the PC Party claime was "Dalton McGuinty's worst nightmare"? (Then went on to lose the election in 2004) Or maybe the likeable, but unelectable John Tory?

Mike Harris was re-elected to a majority government in 1999 AFTER the amalgmation of Toronto, and other municipalities, as well as hospital re-structuring. The ONLY people upset at Mike Harris were the unions, and media pundits.

Don't confuse what pundits in newspaper say with what voters may or may not be looking for.


Mark my words, if Hudak follows in Mikeys footsteps - then Ontario will be stuck with the 'Teflon" Lieberal Premier for many years to come.

Advice to Hudak, listen to what the people are saying and then form your OWN policies. Down loading, amalgamation, emission testing, hospital closures etc all happened on Harris's watch and many Ontarians have not yet forgotten his negative policies.
Take a lesson from HM PM Harper who listened to Canadians and then took a left of centre approach which so far has worked for him albeit a minority one..
Ontario has changed :!:
teenagetory





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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Location: Halifax

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think someone else said this earlier in the thread, but Harris was re-elected after amalgamation. I think what will sell in Onatario is a Harperesque approach of moderate tax cuts. More to the right of Joe Clark but less to the left than Harris
CPP





Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 244
Reputation: 10.5
votes: 1
Location: Too close to Quebec

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teenagetory wrote:
I think someone else said this earlier in the thread, but Harris was re-elected after amalgamation. I think what will sell in Onatario is a Harperesque approach of moderate tax cuts. More to the right of Joe Clark but less to the left than Harris


Mike Harris was responsible for Toronto & area cities to amalgamate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Harris

And implemented a number of unpopular hospital closures in Toronto.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CPP wrote:
Mike Harris was responsible for Toronto & area cities to amalgamate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Harris

And implemented a number of unpopular hospital closures in Toronto.

You didn't address teenagetory's points. You simply reiterated your position.

I wasn't living in Ontario during that time but it doesn't take long to find the answers. Was Harris re-elected after forcing the amalgamation to create Metro-Toronto? YES, with a majority. At what point did the hospital closures take place? During Harris' first mandate.

Did McGuinty allow Toronto to de-amalgamate? Did McGuinty reopen the hospitals? Popular or not, Harris made the right moves.

So why did Harris make these decisions? Massive downloading from the federal government thanks to Chretien and Martin was a big part of it but the second part was... it was necessary to rescue Ontario from the legacy of Bob Rae.

Why were these decisions so unpopular or controversial? The unions went ballistic because Harris didn't kowtow to them... and the media loves publishing the rantings of screaming unionists.

-Mac
CPP





Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 244
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votes: 1
Location: Too close to Quebec

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
CPP wrote:
Mike Harris was responsible for Toronto & area cities to amalgamate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Harris

And implemented a number of unpopular hospital closures in Toronto.

You didn't address teenagetory's points. You simply reiterated your position.

I wasn't living in Ontario during that time but it doesn't take long to find the answers. Was Harris re-elected after forcing the amalgamation to create Metro-Toronto? YES, with a majority. At what point did the hospital closures take place? During Harris' first mandate.

Did McGuinty allow Toronto to de-amalgamate? Did McGuinty reopen the hospitals? Popular or not, Harris made the right moves.

So why did Harris make these decisions? Massive downloading from the federal government thanks to Chretien and Martin was a big part of it but the second part was... it was necessary to rescue Ontario from the legacy of Bob Rae.

Why were these decisions so unpopular or controversial? The unions went ballistic because Harris didn't kowtow to them... and the media loves publishing the rantings of screaming unionists.

-Mac


Well, I hope your right but one thing I have learned fighting many elections as a (past) provincial conservative riding president, never underestimate the lieberals.
Ontarians presently prefer policies similar to what Brampton Billy Davis offered and not those of Mikey (download) Harris.
If Tories lose sight of this, then we may as well crown Dalton (teflon) McGuinty, Premier for life.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CPP wrote:
Well, I hope your right but one thing I have learned fighting many elections as a (past) provincial conservative riding president, never underestimate the lieberals.
Ontarians presently prefer policies similar to what Brampton Billy Davis offered and not those of Mikey (download) Harris.
If Tories lose sight of this, then we may as well crown Dalton (teflon) McGuinty, Premier for life.

The government of Bill Davis was dealing with a different time and economy than that of Mike Harris but there were some interesting similarities. For instance, Davis introduced regional governments to Durham, Hamilton-Wentworth, Haldimand-Norfolk, and Waterloo... unpopular at the time but, again, none of these groups reverted to individual municipalities.

There was very little political cooperation between Bill Davis and the leader of the feds at the time, Joe Clark... and that hasn't changed. Both Harris and Davis helped to broker the deal which brought the Alliance and the Progressive Conservatives together... and Joe Clark roundly condemned the reunified right...

John Tory offered Ontario policies which were like what Joe Clark offered Canada... with similar non-results... so I would suggest Ontario is much better off having someone at the right end of the conservative spectrum than the left.

-Mac
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Tim Hudak: The New Leader of the Ontario PC Party

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