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SFrank85





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Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:04 am    Post subject: Poll: Scrapping Human Rights Tribunal = Faith Based Funding Reply with quote

Quote:
Poll shows nixing tribunal would hurt PCs
Party leadership candidate Tim Hudak could be in trouble for his views
The London Free Press
Tue Jun 16 2009 Page: A5
By CHIP MARTIN

Scrapping the Ontario human rights tribunal resonates about
as well with Ontario voters as did the ill-fated plan to extend
public funding to faith-based schools.

An Angus Reid poll of voting intentions obtained by The Free Press
comes as bad news for two candidates for the leadership of the
Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario who want to scrap the
tribunal.

The online poll of 802 voters between June 9 and 11 showed the PC
party would halve its popular support by scrapping the tribunal.

Asked if they’d consider the Ontario PC Party as an alternative to
Dalton McGuinty’s Liberals in the next election, 42.6% of
respondents said yes, 38.8% no.

Asked whether they’d consider voting the same way if the PC party’s
new leader wanted to scrap the tribunal, that support plunged to
25.2%. In that scenario, 44.5% said they wouldn’t vote for the PCs.

The difference was more pronounced in Southwestern Ontario where
44% would support the PCs, but only 23.3% if the human rights
tribunal was abandoned. The Conservatives have found the region
largely barren in recent elections.

Two leadership contenders, perceived frontrunner Tim Hudak and
maverick Randy Hillier, have campaigned to abolish the tribunal,
arguing it adds to government red tape, is costly and impedes
business. Hudak would replace it with a court-based system.
Christine Elliott and Frank Klees have said they’d keep it.

“This shows the scrapping of the human rights tribunal is a very,
very hot potato, like the faith-based school funding issue,” said
Huron University College political scientist Paul Nesbitt-Larking.

Conservatives vote for a new leader June 21 and 25, with results
announced June 27.

Nesbitt-Larking said the results are bad news for Hudak and good
for Elliott, believed to be trailing Hudak.

“This doesn’t bode well for Tim Hudak,” Nesbitt-Larking said. “Once
these numbers become public it is going to be become very difficult
for the Conservatives in the province to support him in the numbers
they are.”

The human rights issue has been a bit of a wedge among the
candidates and one that could see the party move to the right and
away from the middle where former leader John Tory took it after the
last Conservative government.

Tory promoted the faith-based school funding plan and his party was
hammered for it in the 2007 election.

Nesbitt-Larking said there’s a strong contrast between the
candidates and a clear choice for party members, given the fact
Ontarians are showing they prefer “a moderate party of the centre.”

“These numbers are very clear,” he said. “It must be a real boost
to Christine Elliott and vindication of the position she has taken.”

He predicted all this might be bad news for the Liberals because “a
Conservative party under Christine Elliott is going to be a
formidable adversary.”

The province-wide poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5%
19 times out of 20. The smaller poll of 193 voters in Southwestern
Ontario has a margin of error of plus or minus 7%, 19 times out of
20.


From: Christine Elliott Campaign http://www.votechristine.ca/si.....-hurt-pcs/
hamiltonguyo





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know if we said we'd REFORM the tribunals to bring them more in line with courts and better protect our rights, rather than just claim we'd ABOLISH and REPLACE with courts, it might help.
fiscalconservative





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Poll: Scrapping Human Rights Tribunal = Faith Based Fund Reply with quote

I think if HRT abuse became known then it mgiht fly. Right now the public knows nothing about the HRT, so the knee jerk response is "who is against human rights"?

Its a very stuipid political plan. While the plan may resonate with an element of the base, and make you party leader, its something the Liberals will beat you over the head iwth in a general election.

If you wan to do somethng, "reform" might be a better idea. Pick out cases of abuse and use them as an excuse to limit the HRT's power.

Otherwise, I can just see the attack ads now. The Liberals would hand cherry pick cases where peoples human rights were clearly violated and play them in the immigrant communities around Toronto. "With no HRT, this would still be going on...." Poof!, there goes an election.
RuralandRight





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about a Poll on reforming the Draconian OHRC. Suggesting doing nothing and allowing this taxpayer funded Kangaroo Court to continue to compensate thin skinned individual who have 'hurt feelings', would be a shame.

Elliot won't get my vote because she is afraid of the OHRC issue, I rank her number three below Hillier and above Klees.

Tim Hudak will be Ontario's next premier.
hamiltonguyo





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RuralandRight wrote:
How about a Poll on reforming the Draconian OHRC. Suggesting doing nothing and allowing this taxpayer funded Kangaroo Court to continue to compensate thin skinned individual who have 'hurt feelings', would be a shame.

Elliot won't get my vote because she is afraid of the OHRC issue, I rank her number three below Hillier and above Klees.

Tim Hudak will be Ontario's next premier.


A whole Host of better reasons to stick her in that place, she's number three for me as well behind Hillier and above Hudak.
DavidK





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Tim was saying Reform whereas Randy was the one saying to scrap em. I agree that an all out trashing is not smart as far as an election. But reform is a good start.
Libertas





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Hudak stated he wanted them to be scrapped in favour of the courts.

Unfortunately you have to make small steps before taking bigger steps. It's better to start with reform and then go towards abolishing them.
DavidK





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Libertas wrote:
I think Hudak stated he wanted them to be scrapped in favour of the courts.

Unfortunately you have to make small steps before taking bigger steps. It's better to start with reform and then go towards abolishing them.


No. He wants them governed by real courts and real laws.
RuralandRight





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Location: Rural Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavidK wrote:
Libertas wrote:
I think Hudak stated he wanted them to be scrapped in favour of the courts.

Unfortunately you have to make small steps before taking bigger steps. It's better to start with reform and then go towards abolishing them.


No. He wants them governed by real courts and real laws.


Tim proposes that the Tribunal be scrapped in favour of a court-based system operating under the rules of evidence. Complaints would go to specially trained judges, similar to the existing Domestic Violence and Family Law Courts. These judges would have a mandate to hear real cases of discrimination or harassment – not politically-motivated cases of hurt feelings.

Tim called it 'scrapping' the OHRC but he is really proposing reforming the HRC into a court based system.
DavidK





Joined: 22 Nov 2008
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RuralandRight wrote:
DavidK wrote:
Libertas wrote:
I think Hudak stated he wanted them to be scrapped in favour of the courts.

Unfortunately you have to make small steps before taking bigger steps. It's better to start with reform and then go towards abolishing them.


No. He wants them governed by real courts and real laws.


Tim proposes that the Tribunal be scrapped in favour of a court-based system operating under the rules of evidence. Complaints would go to specially trained judges, similar to the existing Domestic Violence and Family Law Courts. These judges would have a mandate to hear real cases of discrimination or harassment – not politically-motivated cases of hurt feelings.

Tim called it 'scrapping' the OHRC but he is really proposing reforming the HRC into a court based system.


Exactly!
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hamiltonguyo wrote:
You know if we said we'd REFORM the tribunals to bring them more in line with courts and better protect our rights, rather than just claim we'd ABOLISH and REPLACE with courts, it might help.


Exactly, we should be using language like promising to *improve* the OHRC. Or just shut up about it and when we`re in power do whatever we want.

Promising to `scrap`them is a huge strategic mistake which gives our opposition a huge target in the next election. I would question the leadership ability of anybody who promises to scrap them.
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not that surprised by the poll at all , as it was pretty clear that in a multicultural province like ontario the human rights tribunial issue was a vote loser .

so now that the poll is out there , you have to wonder if hudak will stick to his position cause this poll is a big boost to the 2 candidates that don't desire to go after it .

the poll is good news for the party in general as it said around 40 % polled would consider the ontario pc as an alternative , those are strong numbers and shows the party has a solid chance against mcguinty in a future election as long is they don't screw things up again .
kwlafayette





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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is now time for a serious question. Would you not rather go down in an honest fight, where you knew you were on the side of right, and you had told the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, rather that lie your way into power? Long term, would that not mean that people would trust you more, and that you would have impeccable credibility on a wide range of issues?

What you are talking about, that has led us into our current situation, where leaders get no respect from, and show none for the electorate. Where question period is about sound bites instead of answers, and responsible government is a secondary concern. People talk about raising the level of public discourse, but very few seem to be serious about it.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
It is now time for a serious question. Would you not rather go down in an honest fight, where you knew you were on the side of right, and you had told the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, rather that lie your way into power? Long term, would that not mean that people would trust you more, and that you would have impeccable credibility on a wide range of issues?

What you are talking about, that has led us into our current situation, where leaders get no respect from, and show none for the electorate. Where question period is about sound bites instead of answers, and responsible government is a secondary concern. People talk about raising the level of public discourse, but very few seem to be serious about it.


Honesty no longer gets you in the corridors of power. McGunity did it in 2007, lying his way to victory about the faith based school, despite the fact that he and his children went to a government run faith based school.
marklar





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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not like we're going to an election tomorrow. Maybe it's unpopular at the moment because most of the public is uneducated about the issue. But any new leader would have well over a year to get their platform out there and sell their policies before facing the electorate. Anyone running from this issue at this point to me comes off as a weak leader, not worth my vote.
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Poll: Scrapping Human Rights Tribunal = Faith Based Funding

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