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which Ontario PC Leadership Candidate is the most electable in Ontario
Tim Hudak
40%
 40%  [ 9 ]
Christine Elliott
31%
 31%  [ 7 ]
Frank Klees
13%
 13%  [ 3 ]
Randy Hillier
13%
 13%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 22

Author Message
DixieCanuck





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Which Ont PC leadership Cand is most electable Reply with quote

Hillier is the only one I would vote for in the leadership contest or general election. Freedom IS popular and he is the only one who is standing up for it. The rest are only conservative in comparison to the opposition and that is not good enough for me but apparently is good enough for many.
Take2





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Which Ont PC leadership Cand is most electable Reply with quote

DixieCanuck wrote:
Hillier is the only one I would vote for in the leadership contest or general election. Freedom IS popular and he is the only one who is standing up for it. The rest are only conservative in comparison to the opposition and that is not good enough for me but apparently is good enough for many.
Exactly, there's too many who are far more concerned with keeping the left happy instead of standing up and leading the way with a better choice.
Louise M.





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get the feeling that Ontarians are itching for a good reason to dump McGuinty and his band of merry wallet and purse pickpockets. They may not want a revolution, but they're crying out for common sense. I think Hudak fills the bill, regardless of his association with Harris and/or his government.

The eHealth scandal, piled on top of others, bodes well for the PCs in the next election.

I predict that if Dalton loses, he'll step down and run federally. :twisted:
teenagetory





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to say Elliot would be the most electable. She's a women, articulate, and Conservative :D While there is no John Toryesque candidate, her conservatism is surley a plus.

Hudak reeks of the Harris days, while Klees, and Hillier don't have enough of a profile. Elliot has the advantage of having a last name other than Flaherty, even if she's married to him. As well Flaherty's name isnt totally bankrupt, unlike the names of some other prominent former Ontario premiers :wink:
905 Tory





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise M. wrote:
I get the feeling that Ontarians are itching for a good reason to dump McGuinty and his band of merry wallet and purse pickpockets. They may not want a revolution, but they're crying out for common sense. I think Hudak fills the bill, regardless of his association with Harris and/or his government.

The eHealth scandal, piled on top of others, bodes well for the PCs in the next election.

I predict that if Dalton loses, he'll step down and run federally. :twisted:


I want to agree here but even with all those negatives, I just don't see defeating the Liberals in the next elections being even remotely easy. Already being eight years as premier, McGuinty could play the experience card. Also, by then, the recession will be over (maybe as soon as this year). Hell, Reagan and Clinton both faced re-election during a rebound period and won handily. I know McGuinty oversaw this disaster for Ontario, but he could play that card. He won't have the union support but the NDP won't be a factor beyond that so it would be down to McGuinty and the new PC leader--either could run away with it.

Remember, McGuinty has a comfortable 2.5 years to wait for good times and the same amount of time to clean up and at least bring down the deficit. I think the PCs should pick the one who "looks" like a leader. Someone who could stand toe-to-toe with McGuinty and look reasonable. I am not a full supporter of Elliot but I think she has that post-menopausal enigma about her which would draw in all the women and some moderate men--regardless of the message. Elliot has "it," Mulroney had "it" Bob Rae had "it" (lol, he somehow was able to pull off winning on a socialist platform), Harris had some of "it" and a bit of luck--easily beating two full-fledged lefties. Hudak is tough, although not as tough as Hillier but these two would be touted by the media as right-wing loonies. They can't do the same to a woman since the right wing and women don't usually mix, lol.
DavidK





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

905 Tory wrote:
Louise M. wrote:
I get the feeling that Ontarians are itching for a good reason to dump McGuinty and his band of merry wallet and purse pickpockets. They may not want a revolution, but they're crying out for common sense. I think Hudak fills the bill, regardless of his association with Harris and/or his government.

The eHealth scandal, piled on top of others, bodes well for the PCs in the next election.

I predict that if Dalton loses, he'll step down and run federally. :twisted:


I want to agree here but even with all those negatives, I just don't see defeating the Liberals in the next elections being even remotely easy. Already being eight years as premier, McGuinty could play the experience card. Also, by then, the recession will be over (maybe as soon as this year). Hell, Reagan and Clinton both faced re-election during a rebound period and won handily. I know McGuinty oversaw this disaster for Ontario, but he could play that card. He won't have the union support but the NDP won't be a factor beyond that so it would be down to McGuinty and the new PC leader--either could run away with it.

Remember, McGuinty has a comfortable 2.5 years to wait for good times and the same amount of time to clean up and at least bring down the deficit. I think the PCs should pick the one who "looks" like a leader. Someone who could stand toe-to-toe with McGuinty and look reasonable. I am not a full supporter of Elliot but I think she has that post-menopausal enigma about her which would draw in all the women and some moderate men--regardless of the message. Elliot has "it," Mulroney had "it" Bob Rae had "it" (lol, he somehow was able to pull off winning on a socialist platform), Harris had some of "it" and a bit of luck--easily beating two full-fledged lefties. Hudak is tough, although not as tough as Hillier but these two would be touted by the media as right-wing loonies. They can't do the same to a woman since the right wing and women don't usually mix, lol.


It always comes down to being 'Too Right Wing' dosen't it? Tim is too right wing. Randy is too right wing and Frank is too socally conservative. But Elliott is just right? Excuse me, but that's total BS.

You can't have a moderate leader who leans Left. They can't appease the Right, because they are too worried about the Left being happy. You need a moderate leader who leans Right, IMO. Christine is a woman, and hostory has shown females, even conservatives will lean Left. I see Tim Hudak as a Moderate with Right leanings, and that's why I'll vote for him. If I was going to vote based on social issues, I would vote Klees
Louise M.





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

905 Tory wrote:
I want to agree here but even with all those negatives, I just don't see defeating the Liberals in the next elections being even remotely easy. Already being eight years as premier, McGuinty could play the experience card. Also, by then, the recession will be over (maybe as soon as this year).

In McGuinty's case, I don't know how far the experience factor will take him. Heck, with McGuinty's experience you'd think he could navigate the ship in the proper direction.

When the economy rebounds I don't think they'll credit McGuinty. They'll credit Harper. And I don't think Ontarians have forgiven the Liberals for imposing the health tax. They are reminded of it each year when they file their taxes. The scandal at e-Health only reinforces their anger at paying a tax that has shown next to no improvements.

905 Tory wrote:
I am not a full supporter of Elliot but I think she has that post-menopausal enigma about her which would draw in all the women and some moderate men--regardless of the message.


I can't think of one woman in politics today that I would vote for. I'll be candid. I know very little about Elliott and I am disinterested for the very fact she is a woman and married to Flaherty. I think it's because I have been so disappointed with the performance of female politicians I thought had potential. Also, I must admit I am turned off by the notion of power couples in politics, a la Layton and Chow, regardless of the party in question.
Louise M.





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavidK wrote:
Christine is a woman, and hostory has shown females, even conservatives will lean Left.

Thanks DavidK. I knew there was another reason I hesitate to vote for women politicians.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Order:

1) Hudak:
Hudak is a young leader with a beautiful family who happens to be a unapologetic Conservative. The ideas of the PC party are not as "evil" as have been made out to be and its time for us to stop reacting to propaganda and start acting on selling the principals of the right. He has worked in the private sector and has been in politics for 14 years and has the perk or being young and experienced.

2) Klees
An excellent orator, and also happens to have the spine to be a Conservative when its unpopular. Was the first candidate to realize HST is coming regardless of all the huffing and puffing and has a plan in place to make it revenue neutral by reducing the PST. Coupled with the fact that he last run at the leadership produced some interesting ideas such as a hybrid Private/Public health care system that greatly appeals to me. He is another candidate who can sell Conservative principals and live and die by them.

3) Elliot
While so many seem to fawn over the flat tax concept, I find it interesting that we find a promise that is so appealing to the Conservatives who stayed at home in 2007 wrapped in a series of platform planks that make me wonder what the difference between her and John Tory is?

We have already drank the Kool-Aid of electing a leader because of "electability" over "principals" and we all know how John Tory's reign turned out.

Elliot's appeal to the center is interesting, but we can't out center the Liberals and I have little faith in Elliot ability to excite the base and deliver them on election day. I bought a one year PC membership just in case Elliot wins so that I can let Rome burn around me and vote Libertarian on election day while we suffer the same result we saw in 2007,

4) Hillier
Love him, Love his policies, greatly enjoy his honesty and directness when it comes to what he wants to do with Ontario.

However, he is unelectable outside of Rural Ontario.
teenagetory





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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You need a moderate leader who leans Right, IMO. Christine is a woman, and hostory has shown females, even conservatives will lean Left


I recall this one lady who was really conservative and kept her principals, I can't recall her name though, Margaret something :D
905 Tory





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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teenagetory wrote:
I recall this one lady who was really conservative and kept her principals, I can't recall her name though, Margaret something :D


Yeah, true. Margaret Trudeau was so conservative she left Pierre :D .
Skinny Dipper





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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
Cool Blue wrote:
They all have factors that can affect their electability:

Elliot: married to Flaherty

Hudak: can be labelled `Harris Jr` since he was in the Harris cabinet

Klees: in the last leadership run he endorsed two-tier health care

Hillier: seen as a radical, arrested a few years back during an OLA demonstration


as all have been involved in politics for a while its maybe no surpise each has some history .
but canadians have shown a willingness to move on so maybe some of it isn't that important or be an issue in next vote . my thoughs on each on them

Hillier - has some rural popularity but lacks urban appeal or will they understand where he is coming from , just don't see him connecting with them and not sure anyone really see's him as a leader in the sense .

Klees - is some history there , has a fairly clean past though , nothing that jumps out at me , he just needs to stay away from some issues he got involved with before like the schools issue .

Hudak - could see the harris endorsement becoming an issue , he may also come across as inexperienced in the leaders role .

Elliott - i agree the flaherty thing is a potential problem , she also has the problem of being seen as similar to John Tory although tory himself wasn't the reason they lost last election it was the faith based school disaster , if not for that tory might of done well that election , but either way the red tory label is a problem for some , maybe more a problem with conservatives than the public in general though .


I think RCO has a fair assessment of the four candidates' electability. I will add that when the next Ontario provincial election takes place, I don't think voters will care little about ideology. They will care more about competency. Which PC candidate will be able to make the case as being most competent against McGuinty? Who is moe competent on the economy? Stay away from the HRC issue. Voters won't care. Also, the Conservatives should stay away from education unless the party wishes to state the case for strengthening education. No private religious schools funding, please!

I think both Tim Hudak and Christine Elliot can connect with the voters after one or two elections. It will take time for them to let the voters know who they are.

Randy Hillier is going to be seen as being too rural for urban Ontario voters. There is nothing wrong with coming from a rural riding. A party leader needs to understand concerns that urban voters may face such as public transit to improve the economic flow in our cities and province.

If Frrank Klees can play the competency card, the PCs could win the election. I think he made a good policy direction on the HRC as it demonstrated that he wants to improve human rights in Ontario, not destroy them. If he decides to get idieological, he could alienate the voters. If he wants to be the candidate that promotes a "new and improved" Ontario, he can win. If he can figure out a way to "improve tax fairness" such as combining the health premium issue and income tax, this could work to his advantage. The health premium is a regressive tax while income taxes are usually progressive by nature. Flat taxes may work within the PC party; they won't work with the voters. This becomes an ideological fixation that the Liberals can attack. "Fair" taxation is good; "flat" taxation is a bad sell.

Voters will not care if the leader is a red or blue tory so long as he or she is a competent tory. Mike Harris was a blue tory who sold himself to the public as a competent tory.
Northern Ontario Tory





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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it interesting that many people consider the fact that Hillier is from a "rural" riding to be an impediment to his electability. So, what exactly is a rural riding? It is a definition that seems to have constantly changed depending upon who is speaking. Is it related to agriculture? Size? Or what? The size of the Northern Ontario ridings leads to many people calling them rural, even though the majority of the population is concentrated in areas, with much of the remaining area being trees / rock / water. Rural doesn't mean we are all stereotypical lumberjacks or simple farmers wearing flannel shirts and shit covered boots! The lifestyle is admittedly different in rural ridings, but perhaps it is because of that we see some straight talking, opinionated, unapologetic Conservative voices. One of the most notable party leaders came from the Northern Ontario riding of Nipissing and perhaps you may have heard of him ........ a guy named Mike Harris!

So lets drop the idea that a leader from a rural riding is less electable than one from an urban area...........it is because of such thinking that we ended up with John Tory, a guy who could supposedly deliver votes and seats in the Metro Toronto area. And we all know how that theory developed!

Using the fact that Hillier is from a rural riding is nothing more than a feeble smokescreen. What people really are afraid to say is that they are against him because he is not a university educated, life-long suit & tie wearing white-collar worker with a silver tongue. He may be a little rough around the edges at times, but that can be improved before the next election. He is often labelled as a libertarian or a hard as a rock conservative in the media, which is in stark contrast to the other candidates. Mike Harris may be hated by his opponents, but even they will admit that he did exactly what he said he would once he was elected. Focus on policy instead of whether a candidate is from a rural riding or not.
potan





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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim Hudak is an economist by education (MA Economics from UWash) , he managed several economic portfolios under the Harris government.

During this time of economic crisis in Ontario, Hudak's experience and competence will be appealing to the electorate.
Northern Ontario Tory





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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

potan wrote:
Tim Hudak is an economist by education (MA Economics from UWash) , he managed several economic portfolios under the Harris government.

During this time of economic crisis in Ontario, Hudak's experience and competence will be appealing to the electorate.


The next election won't be until 2011, by which time the economy will have recovered. Hudak's experience and competence in this area will be meaningless then. The Liberals will just as easily be able to play that card, which is why we need good policy ideas by then.
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Which Ont PC leadership Cand is most electable

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