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When will the government fall?
Sept-Oct 06
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Oct-Nov 06
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Nov-Dec 06
8%
 8%  [ 3 ]
Jan-Feb 07
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Feb-Mar 07
11%
 11%  [ 4 ]
Mar-Apr 07
20%
 20%  [ 7 ]
Apr-May 07
22%
 22%  [ 8 ]
Summer 07
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Fall 07
14%
 14%  [ 5 ]
Later than that...
11%
 11%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 35

Author Message
McGuire





Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 369
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is why Harper will likely trigger his own defeat.
shavluk
Guest








PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but then again you are the guy with the implant and i will adjust my thoughts accordingly

i see the ndp making great strides at the expense of the Conservatives because of poor decision making and discriminatory practises.
rednecks should enjoy these times as they wont last.
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 2262
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votes: 8
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shavluk wrote:
but then again you are the guy with the implant and i will adjust my thoughts accordingly


[don't ya know how to use the quote button?]

...and pray tell - what - is that supposed to mean?

You should adjust your thoughts accordingly - to see what the NDP are really all about - as this 'implant' is their nasty program.

If the NDP [who are only going to become more communist over time] ever take the federal vote - they shall introduce a national public insurance scheme - a national SGI [ is SGI Canada just such an infrastructure waiting in the wings?] - then any Canadian may find themselves suffering - oppressed under this nature of serious abuse - an abuse which I have been suffering - for the last 51 months and 15 days.

It's amazing really - those that laugh at this issue - just see how much that reaction helps those despotic socialists who wish to track individuals with such technologies - we are only in the early days of this new technolgical reality - yes - it's something to laugh at?
Bleatmop





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
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votes: 10

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shavluk wrote:
but then again you are the guy with the implant and i will adjust my thoughts accordingly

i see the ndp making great strides at the expense of the Conservatives because of poor decision making and discriminatory practises.
rednecks should enjoy these times as they wont last.


Glad to see in your disaproval of discriminatory practices that the Conservatives are allegedly using that you're not above using epithets to describe their supporters.

Bigot
Craig
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Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shavluk wrote:
i see the ndp making great strides at the expense of the Conservatives because of poor decision making and discriminatory practises.


You "see" this do you? Where, pray tell, do you see this? Because you certainly don't see it in the polls. And if Bob Rae wins the Liberal leadership your "screw the Afghans" NDP will die a slow and painful death. And I will laugh the whole time.

Quote:
rednecks should enjoy these times as they wont last.


Pathetic :roll:
shavluk
Guest








PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E I E I,,,,,,,,O


yes S G I ,,,,,, O


god i miss those cheapest rates in Canada,,,

unfortunately i live with the so called free-market at probably 30-50% more than i used to pay in Sask, could be old % ,i haven't kept track but i am sure its less


and i guess we will see what happens and yes you are right Rae could hurt the Layton NDP vote unless Layton comes up with policies that make sense and reaches those nonvoting Canadians and the usual ones,,

Again i can only have my opinion,,,it shouldn't effect yours.
i believe that living in the richest country in the world based on resources should mean something , the problem is we listen to the greed in the crowd as we sell our country cheap


i could give you all the particulars but i do realize the general philosophical differences would just have us disagreeing and you are right about my redneck statement.
redneck to me means ,,,racist, ignorant types and i know i shouldn't think all conservatives are really that way,,,its just some bad apples spoil the cart
and i have a problem with organized political parties that want to put some one like me in jail because i use cannabis,,,,if you do ,,to me you are a redneck sorry

the drug-war against your own children will come down to a civil war between the enlightened and the stupid,,,,
which side are you on?
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shavluk wrote:

Again i can only have my opinion,,,it shouldn't effect yours.
i believe that living in the richest country in the world based on resources should mean something


Ummm. We have 10X more natural resources than the USA and yet we are 20% poorer. But don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion. We are blowing our wealth on an ineffective social system. American productivity is higher because they reward success. We hate success and punish it at every opportunity. Rape the rich.
Donald Hughes





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 166
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Location: Libertarian socialism

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Rape the rich.
I know whenever I read about a person with immense wealth, power and prestige I think to myself "they really have been screwed by this system!"
Craig
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donald Hughes wrote:
Craig wrote:
Rape the rich.
I know whenever I read about a person with immense wealth, power and prestige I think to myself "they really have been screwed by this system!"


Right. Because they didn't earn it with blood sweat and tears. Rich people are thieves. If I had that attitude I would agree with you.

Taxation is legalized theft. I believe in a very basic welfare system for those who have suffered. I don't believe in a welfare system that subsidizes peoples' bad decisions.
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fact I think that is your problem Donald. You think everyone is either a victim or victor of the "system". The "system" is to blame for either success or failure. You don't give credit to those who succeed or blame to those who fail. It is all attributable to the "system".
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shavluk wrote:
unless Layton comes up with policies that make sense and reaches those nonvoting Canadians and the usual ones


So funny... Taliban Jack couldn't recognize a sensible policy even if the Conservative policy platform was leaked on Stephen Taylor's blog. For those who need a reminder, take a look at some of the ideas that card carrying NDPers have been talking about over the summer... <b>link</b>

It is really humorous to read about how people think that Taliban Jack will come and sweep to electoral victory in the next election.
Donald Hughes





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 166
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Location: Libertarian socialism

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Right. Because they didn't earn it with blood sweat and tears.
Is wealth a function of effort? Generally it is not.
Quote:
Rich people are thieves.
No, many of them play the system as it stands and make a lot of money off of things like shifts in currency or the better results of a particular company. Others are relatively rich because they are indeed very productive and have accrued some of this to themselves in various ways. As I've said before, the individual may not be much to blame, but at a systemic level it is true: Behind every great fortune there is a crime.
Quote:
Taxation is legalized theft.
Property is fossilized theft.
Quote:
I believe in a very basic welfare system for those who have suffered.
Isn't that theft? So you support theft? What amount of theft is acceptable to you?
Quote:
I don't believe in a welfare system that subsidizes peoples' bad decisions.
What is a good decision? Should these be subsidized? Is it going to the doctor when you are sick? Is it going to school when you want to learn? Or is the only good decision that should be subsidized when someone decides to be obedient to capital and surrender their labour to it?
Quote:
In fact I think that is your problem Donald. You think everyone is either a victim or victor of the "system". The "system" is to blame for either success or failure. You don't give credit to those who succeed or blame to those who fail. It is all attributable to the "system".
You are correct that I do try to look at it more at a systemic level (or, rather, hopefully at the level of the logic of capital and resistance to it over various times in history - it is not really a "system" in any crude sense). I may succeed or fail in that particular project, I don't know. But it is important to note that I don't think that success or failure has to do with a person's short-term economic fortunes. A person who "fails" to earn a high income may still be very successful in my eyes. I am not some liberal egalitarian looking for just high wages. I want to abolish the wage system. I want to end the whole idea of any person gaining solely due to their position in relation to the means of production, and dismantle hierarchical systems that lead to the idea that there is a class of hyperproductive managerial types that deserve exponentially greater access to what society produces, and give each person a direct participatory role in the management of the economy and its fruits. Our present system constrains and subordinates the great majority of humanity to taking orders or living on the edges of existence. It does not reward their sacrifices.

But I should repeat that understand this is a controversial opinion, but I believe I have arrived at it sincerely. I also am quite certain that I did not just leap at emotional or confused arguments because I somehow don't understand the economy or have some animus against "The Rich." I was a right-libertarian for a few years and a conservative for a few more, I feel that I have read and heard enough to see where I was wrong. Very wrong. This may change in the future, and I am trying to think it through honestly, which is the only reason why I would post on boards like this other than it being a bad habit.
Craig
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donald Hughes wrote:
Property is fossilized theft.


That is so gaia.

Quote:
Isn't that theft? So you support theft? What amount of theft is acceptable to you?


A minimal amount.

Quote:
What is a good decision? Should these be subsidized?


No. I don't believe in corporate welfare.

Quote:
Is it going to the doctor when you are sick?


Of course. How is that relevent to this discussion?

Quote:
Or is the only good decision that should be subsidized when someone decides to be obedient to capital and surrender their labour to it?


Actually, I was thinking about my dope smoking college room-mates who made a "good decision" to go to school to, ummmmm, "learn". You get my drift.

Quote:
You are correct that I do try to look at it more at a systemic level


To each his own. I see the system as a framework (granted it has become a rather onerous one) in which we function but are not subservient to. We are what we make of ourselves. If we play sports instead of study in highschool we might end up making minimum wage at the local 7/11 OR if we work really hard at our sport we could end up making millions (it is a gamble with a big payoff but most people fail). If people CHOOSE to make that gamble then I don't want to subsidize them if they fail. It was their choice. The system is not to blame if they fail because they were AWARE of the risk (or should have been had their parents properly raised them). I could talk about the boozers at university or the criminals who chose to gamble on a robbery. Everyone chooses the path they take. It is the people who suffer through no fault of their own who should be subsidized - not the people who arrived where they are by design.

Quote:
I want to end the whole idea of any person gaining solely due to their position in relation to the means of production


So if I risk my financial future by mortgaging my house on an idea that may or may not succeed and work day in and day out trying to build it into something I shouldn't have a greater reward than they guy who CHOSE to come work for me at the wage I OFFERED him (I didn't force him to work for me - he chose to work for me).


Quote:
and dismantle hierarchical systems that lead to the idea that there is a class


I don't care if you are white collared or blue collared - part of the reward for your work is the ability to pass success onto your children. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Quote:
hyperproductive managerial types that deserve exponentially greater access to what society produces


Knowledge is power and the most knowledgable go to the highest bidder. The president of a company wouldn't risk his company by paying his managers excessively or he would be defeated by his competitors.

Quote:
Our present system constrains and subordinates the great majority of humanity to taking orders or living on the edges of existence.


I wouldn't have accepted my current position if I didn't like my salary - and no, I am not a manager or executive. The days of slavery are behind us. Everyone ACCEPTS their positions voluntarily.

Quote:
It does not reward their sacrifices.


Sure it does. It doesn't reward sloth.

Quote:
I was a right-libertarian for a few years and a conservative for a few more, I feel that I have read and heard enough to see where I was wrong.


I hope you aren't suggesting that because you have tested out the waters that you are in a better position to assess the truth. I'm pretty certain about my sexuality even though I've never tried the alternatives.

Quote:
This may change in the future, and I am trying to think it through honestly, which is the only reason why I would post on boards like this other than it being a bad habit.


Well. I certainly enjoy your presence here.
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 539
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votes: 3
Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and to think it was the dental implant guy who almost hijacked this thread. :D

Keep up the good work guys.

Donald, I hope you don't quit your bad habit. This forum would get pretty boring if everyone agreed with each other.
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shavluk wrote:
E I E I,,,,,,,,O


yes S G I ,,,,,, O


god i miss those cheapest rates in Canada,,,


...and I miss my rights!
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