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IanM





Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 254
Reputation: 101.1
votes: 7
Location: The centre of the universe

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What we need in this country is a change in thinking.

We need our own american dream concept.

We need to reward hard work, not punish it. We need to change entitlement programmes. Unemployment Insurance should be that be an entitlement, should it be a year's paid vacation? No. It should be insurance, for a rainy day.

Should welfare be a way of life? No, it should be a ladder, a hand up, not a hand out.

Yes, some of these programmes will cost money, however the dividends they will pay off are great.

We need to teach Canadians that everything does not come from the teat of government, that it isn't a giant credit card with no limit. We need to influence people from youth, we need an educational system that rewards children for hard work, that teaches everyone that yes, fair play is nice, however achievement trumps it. We need to start influencing the balance of capitalism from birth, we need to teach our children that free markets and small government lead to better lives for all.

On the other side, we need to come out swinging against unions. We need to reorganize them from the ground up. We need to first legistlate that the Public Service, nor government contractors are allowed to be unionized. Professional Associations and Trade Guilds should take their place. Unions have no place dictating government policy, as CUPE and the Canada Post unions do. What we need to do is impose right to work laws, as well as reform the union system to a business model, they need to be a business, as well as assure professional development of their members.

We need to stop the nanny state, the government is there for peace, order and good government. That is it, we don't need the government telling us that we need to wear seat belts (a play from the libertarian books), nor telling us how to define marriage. (A play from the social left). We need the government to ensure that we have freedoms of speech, property, belief, religion and association. We need the government to ensure the supremacy of the values of the Western World, that is it.

We need the government to get out of the marketplace, to rid themselves of the pork barrel that they think is endless. We need people to realize that the smaller the government, the more freedom they have.

We need justice of course, we need law and order. We need the government to of course make sure we don't axe murder each other, nor do we eat poisonous food.

How do we stop it, by showing the propserity the conservative party has built, to stop thinking in the here and now. We need to explain to them the ideas of personal choice and responsibility, to show that that people can run their own lives.

We need to eliminate the debt that we have created in error, we need to expand, we need to grow. We need to settle affairs with the first nations in order to achieve our goals.

What is our goals?

Our goals are a strong, rich and free Canada. A Canada where people have the freedoms of speech, property, belief, choice, association.

Those is our watchwords.

It is not some plan to sell off Canada, it is not some backroom deals to remove our system. We need to counter that, we need to change the media, we need to play up our accomplishments, we need to show what we are doing for this country.

The media is our biggest enemy. They spin everything as a negative, and we need better spin control. Should we last another 4-8 years in power, I think there will be a paradigm shift. We are well positioned now, to allow ourselves to ride through this recession, expand free trade as well as our economic power. The status quo should not be good enough, for we have a country to win.

Once our plans as an ideology come to fruition when this market correction has come and gone, people will see that we were right, and that history will be the real judge.

So how do we stop socialism?

We let them thrash in the wind, allow the left to split, to keep our ideals true, and to spread them. We don't have the grassroots that they do. We need to focus on the youth, we need to show kids that it is 'cool' to eat meat, work, have responsibilities and achieve. We need to develop our own counter culture with them.

All this will take time yes. However good things do come to those who wait.
darkstorme





Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Posts: 18
Reputation: 21.6Reputation: 21.6

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reverted to lurking because I haven't had time for responses in a while, but this was just too strange a post to leave without a response. IanM, you have a bizarre mix of the practical/pragmatic conservative of days of yore, and the "all legislation and change is bad" big-C Conservative thinking we've seen out of the US Right more and more of late, but which has been confined to a mild infection in our fair country.

IanM wrote:
What we need in this country is a change in thinking.


Agreed. This is usually easy for anyone, left or right wing, to agree upon. The direction that change takes is a different story, mind you, but everyone agrees that a change in thinking is vital.

Quote:

We need to reward hard work, not punish it. We need to change entitlement programmes. Unemployment Insurance should be that be an entitlement, should it be a year's paid vacation? No. It should be insurance, for a rainy day.

Should welfare be a way of life? No, it should be a ladder, a hand up, not a hand out.


Agreed as well - though as a hard worker myself, I don't feel that I am being punished for the work I do. Nor do I feel that more socialist government policies would do so. In what way would you say hard workers are punished under a socialist governmental structure? (Quoting Atlas Shrugged is not, by the way, a justification.)

Quote:

We need to teach Canadians that everything does not come from the teat of government, that it isn't a giant credit card with no limit. We need to influence people from youth, we need an educational system that rewards children for hard work, that teaches everyone that yes, fair play is nice, however achievement trumps it.


If you honestly think "achievement" trumps fair play, I encourage you to live in China, where this policy holds true. Free market capitalism runs fairly rampant there. I grant you, it is important to work and achieve. But simple game theory tells us that there are long-term advantages to fair-play strategies.

Quote:

We need to start influencing the balance of capitalism from birth, we need to teach our children that free markets and small government lead to better lives for all.


There is a word for that, you know. Indoctrination. Teaching children that hard work pays off, that virtue is its own reward, that an inquisitive and open mind is among the most powerful tools available to mankind? These are laudable. Teaching them that a particular philosophy is superior to all others? Somehow, that doesn't feel nearly as beneficial to society.

Quote:

On the other side, we need to come out swinging against unions. We need to reorganize them from the ground up. We need to first legistlate that the Public Service, nor government contractors are allowed to be unionized. Professional Associations and Trade Guilds should take their place. Unions have no place dictating government policy, as CUPE and the Canada Post unions do. What we need to do is impose right to work laws, as well as reform the union system to a business model, they need to be a business, as well as assure professional development of their members.


So we need to promote small government while simultaneously depending on the government to keep power out of the hands of the workers and deliver it into the hands of industry? Have the government tell the unions how to run their organization, but not tell industry what to do? Very selective use of government intervention there.

Quote:

That is it, we don't need the government telling us that we need to wear seat belts (a play from the libertarian books), nor telling us how to define marriage. (A play from the social left).


Odd that you'd choose seat belts, a tremendously practical piece of legislation that reduced auto insurance rates and measurably decreased mortality in automobile accidents. I would argue that legislating the use of seat belts is, in fact, a very practical piece of legislation, and exactly what the government is meant to do - help the whole of society.

Not so odd (given the medium by which you are expressing your opinion) that you'd complain about the "definition of marriage", but I would argue that the government can leave your precious definitions alone if all businesses/insurance agencies/etc agree to treat same-sex civil unions identically under the law as conventional heterosexual marriage. They don't. Allowing same-sex marriage allows all people the same freedoms under the law. What you propose - that the government not interfere in this regard - is, in actuality, a reduction in freedoms, rather than the greater freedom you tout as a benefit of smaller government.

Quote:

We need justice of course, we need law and order. We need the government to of course make sure we don't axe murder each other, nor do we eat poisonous food.


We also need roads, an electrical and telecommunications grid, rail, port facilities, airports, bridges, tunnels and mail. We need blue-sky research, education, and libraries. We need a guiding hand away from unsustainable resource use. We (though less definitely, I grant you) need support of the arts, a nonpartisan news network, and government initiatives to promote tourism.

Quote:

We need to eliminate the debt that we have created in error, we need to expand, we need to grow. We need to settle affairs with the first nations in order to achieve our goals.


Absolutely. Cutting taxes to the point where running a deficit was all but assured, economic crisis or not, was a glaring error that should never have occurred. And I agree that reconciling with the First Nations is always a good idea.

Quote:

Our goals are a strong, rich and free Canada. A Canada where people have the freedoms of speech, property, belief, choice, association.


I would agree, with the popular stipulation "your freedom ends where my nose begins". You cannot impose your beliefs upon me, nor can I compel you to follow mine. If your beliefs violate a portion of society's freedom or well-being, then moderation is in order.


Quote:
...we need to play up our accomplishments, we need to show what we are doing for this country.


Such as...?

Quote:
The media is our biggest enemy.


Er... CanWest Global, National Post... any bells ringing there? They're on your side.

Quote:
Once our plans as an ideology come to fruition when this market correction has come and gone, people will see that we were right, and that history will be the real judge.


Sorry, I can't help but picture the madman from a B-movie here. "They laughed at me. But I'll show them. I'll show them all!"

Quote:
...we need to show kids that it is 'cool' to eat meat, work, have responsibilities and achieve.


Er... one of these things is not like the others. Whether or not it's "cool" to eat meat, it has been proven that moderation of meat in your diet is beneficial to your personal health, and that of the environment - particularly red meat. Not elimination, mind, but moderation. As for the remaining three, no problems here.

Quote:
However good things do come to those who wait.


Longfellow popularized that particular adage, and I've often felt it was incomplete. Good things come to those who wait and work towards those good things. Sitting and waiting never got anyone anywhere. While your verve and enthusiasm for your ideology is obvious, IanM, consider some of the contradictions in your post. Moderation is often a better path than fanaticism.

Cheers.
fkarcha





Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 31
Reputation: 33.3Reputation: 33.3Reputation: 33.3
votes: 3
Location: Winnipeg, MB

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am still seeing the same old thing...vote for your principles...move to the centre...offer a true Conservative vision...

Too often you all focus on the party, and how the party can affect change. It cannot work that way. It clearly has not. Socialists are not using the Liberal or NDP parties as their primary ideological weapon; no, those parties are able enact are socialist incrementalism by their "non-partisan" activism. It is a cyclical relationship: the activists allow the party to implement an increasing socialist agenda which has allowed, as Kheriddin and Daifallah demonstrated, to the activists to access government resources which increases their ability to convince (or indoctrinate) people to their view, which increase government room to implement socialist agendas.

Liberals and socialists have not simply moved their party to the left, they have moved all parties to the left: they have move the centre. If we wish to bring a conservative/libertarian agenda to Canadians, we must work to move the centre as Canadians see it. Who cares if they vote NDP, Liberal, or Conservative if all parties have moved rightward in their agenda?
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
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votes: 36

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

darkstorme wrote:
CanWest Global


Nah - I don't understand why but the television arm of the Asper empire remains Liberal. The only television network that might be considered conservative is the Christian station - and that reaches about 20 households per night.
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 1043
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votes: 6

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Yes that is right, it is the fault of greedy capitalists; it has nothing to do with the government interfering in the market. There is no possible way that the boom and bust cycle could actually be created by government interference. Why, that would be crazy capitalist talk. Everybody knows the socialists are right on this one.


Boom and bust cycles have existed long before we had governments as we recognize them today. Its a natural feature of an economy.

I think problem with this bust was not that there were not enough laws, its that the laws were not enforced. There should have been fraud charges early on from the person on welfare who claimed a six figure income so they could speculate in the housing markets to the person on Wall Street who sold toxic loans as investment grade.
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How do you stop socialisms incremental gains?

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