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SmartCon





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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
I was praying one night before a meeting at church and asked God to speak to me. He gave me a verse to tell the meeting from Corinthians which ended "For we have the mind of Christ"

At the meeting the next day we bowed our heads and the pastor asked God to speak to us. The first person who spoke said "For we have the Mind of Christ"

Blew me away.

I take it the way you guys ignored my first post that you either

1. don't appreciate the fact that you can know God
or
2. don't care to know God

The reason we know of God is because people listened to him speak to them and wrote his word down in Holy books. He still speaks to us today.

Ask him to speak to you and he will. Ask him to reveal himself and he will.

It a hard thing to do. It gets easier after you have experienced a few miracles.


You hear voices? The "holy books" are hearsay and are not really reliable. The existence of god and the legitimacy of religion are two different things. People going around saying "god spoke to me" and told me to do something honestly scares me. I think yourself and other have the right to practice any religion and believe what you want. But I have to say that when people say god came to them or spoke them I kind of think you're just nuts. I don't mean that as an insult, truly I don't. It's just something a little beyond me is all. I understand the religious conservatives, primarily Christians, are very defensive of their religion. I mean no offense by this, it's just what I think.
Zephyr





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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.


Bacteria thrive in a whole range of hostile conditions. There is no reason that life could not thrive on a planet with different temperature and chemical conditions.

Quote:
The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.


Again, this is not true. Life could exist on a planet where one side always faced the dark or light. In fact such a planet would have Earth like temperature regions at distances outside the distance-to-the-sun zone of Earth. Further, if life can survive the temperature changes of winter to summer on Earth, it could also survive the temperature changes of an oval orbit.

Quote:
And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.


More nonsense. Ocean currents do not require tides.

Quote:
Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life


Water exists. That has nothing to do with proving or disproving God.

Quote:

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.


And if water sank, the oceans would freeze. Which means we might not have developed fish and whales. Alternatively, life would have arisen on planets closer to the sun where water never reaches the freezing point.

Quote:

2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?

Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.

Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."9

Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."10

The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.


The First Mover problem was dealt with hundreds of years ago. Why do people still rehash it?

Quote:

3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?

Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.

How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?

"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."12


Because if laws changed all the time, that universe would probably not support life.

Quote:

4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.


DNA is actually quite messy, with many redundant areas. DNA looks more like a haphazard product of evolution than an elegantly designed code from God.

Quote:

6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.

Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God.


Many religious and cult leaders have claimed to be God. That proves nothing.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smart Con wrote:
Quote:
I mean no offense by this, it's just what I think


No offense taken. Unless you have made contact with God it does seem nuts.

Listening for the still small voice of God is standard procedure for the 100 Million Evangelicals/Pentecostals in North America.

Look at all the people(living and dead) who have incredible respect in the world who have said God speaks to them.

Jesus
Mother Teresa
Moses
St. Francis
Mohammed

I could go on and on. The fact that God spoke to them is confirmed in the way they changed the world. People who say God speaks to them but have no confirmation are on thin ice.

I always look for confirmation that God is speaking as should all Christians.

I personally think it is nuts that people would believe in a being that they have no evidence for existing. I think if you asked most Christians they would say they have had things happen to them that seem like miracles and they would say this is evidence of God's existence.

I worship God because in my search for him I have found evidence he exists.

Millions of people live in this assurance of God's existence. If you check the stats there are many more who believe in God's working in this world than those who don't.

You would think they are delusional. But you haven't experienced God.
Libertas





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm an atheist, but culturally I'm a Christian Humanist.

On the question of whether God(s) exists, it's just about impossible to know for certain, even most atheists will acknowledge they can't say with 100% dedication that dieties do not exist. The only thing I'm really sure of is that all of the religions in this world are made by man and are based on cultural factors instead of celestial ones.
SFrank85





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Libertas wrote:
I'm an atheist, but culturally I'm a Christian Humanist.

On the question of whether God(s) exists, it's just about impossible to know for certain, even most atheists will acknowledge they can't say with 100% dedication that dieties do not exist. The only thing I'm really sure of is that all of the religions in this world are made by man and are based on cultural factors instead of celestial ones.


With the exception of Christianity.

Jesus was the son of god, or he was a liar and a fool. He can not be both. If Jesus was the true son of God, then he would be willing to sacrifice himself for humanity. If Jesus was not the real son of God, then if he was under pressure from authorities (which he was), then he would quickly renounce his views of him professing to be the son of God in order to not face certain death.

There is real proof that Jesus did exist, and was executed. Where there is difference is whether he rose from the dead on the third day or if he stayed dead. As a Christian, I believe he did rise from the dead, as there is proof from multiple sources, and from different accounts that this is true.
Libertas





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
With the exception of Christianity.


I'd include Christianity in there, any person who reads the book of Leviticus and thinks that's a good guide for making laws is no better than Islamic fundamentalists.

Quote:
Jesus was the son of god, or he was a liar and a fool. He can not be both. If Jesus was the true son of God, then he would be willing to sacrifice himself for humanity. If Jesus was not the real son of God, then if he was under pressure from authorities (which he was), then he would quickly renounce his views of him professing to be the son of God in order to not face certain death.


That once again is religious belief, and I don't believe in it.

Quote:
There is real proof that Jesus did exist, and was executed. Where there is difference is whether he rose from the dead on the third day or if he stayed dead. As a Christian, I believe he did rise from the dead, as there is proof from multiple sources, and from different accounts that this is true.


Problem is those accounts weren't written until decades after the fact. We don't even have the original transcripts available. Keep in mind the Bible as we know it wasn't put into one large canon until the First Council of Nicaea.

I have read alot about Christianity, especially from CS Lewis, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and Dinesh D'Souza. However I still don't believe Christianity is the only true religion, nor do I see any proof for such claims. I will state that it is far more humane, but when it comes to truth, I don't see it.

I would never argue that Christianity hasn't produced anything of value to it, but is it infallible, definitely not.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Where there is difference is whether he rose from the dead on the third day or if he stayed dead. As a Christian, I believe he did rise from the dead, as there is proof from multiple sources, and from different accounts that this is true.


According to the scriptures all the disciples ran away or hid after Jesus died.

Something changed them into the most elequent defenders of the faith the world has ever seen.

Something changed them into people not only willing to die for their saviour Jesus but people (except for John who was only boiled in oil for his faith) who did die for Jesus.

SFrank we know the thing that changed the disciples was Jesus' resurrection.

Libertas writes:

Quote:
The only thing I'm really sure of is that all of the religions in this world are made by man and are based on cultural factors instead of celestial ones.


Difference between him and us is that we have experienced the miracle of been changed by Jesus' resurection. Nobody can know the miraculous until they experience it for themselves.
Libertas





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
According to the scriptures all the disciples ran away or hid after Jesus died.

Something changed them into the most elequent defenders of the faith the world has ever seen.

Something changed them into people not only willing to die for their saviour Jesus but people (except for John who was only boiled in oil for his faith) who did die for Jesus.


Religious faith has also given courage for people to fly planes into skyscrappers, mutilate girls, burn witches and heretics, create oppressive theocracies, etc. This isn't to say that all religious faith is bad, but religion can give people strength to do things both moral and immoral.

Quote:
Difference between him and us is that we have experienced the miracle of been changed by Jesus' resurection. Nobody can know the miraculous until they experience it for themselves.


Problem is that many people of other faiths have experienced miraculous encounters as well. I'm not talking about the spirituality BS
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.co.....elong-to/] that's become a part of newage [yes, I called it newage instead of new age], I'm talking about Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Scientologists, Jains, Shintoists, etc.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have read alot about Christianity, especially from CS Lewis, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and Dinesh D'Souza. However I still don't believe Christianity is the only true religion, nor do I see any proof for such claims. I will state that it is far more humane, but when it comes to truth, I don't see it.


The only true religion would be one that reconciles all mankind to God. The party line as preached by the modern evalgelical church is that most of mankind is not reconciled to God but spend eternity in hell.

The early church did not believe this. The study of what they believed is the most fascinating study in the world. Every human who has ever existed will be reconciled to God thru Jesus sacrifice on the cross. You can not find this in the teachings of CS Lewis, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and Dinesh D'Souza.

There were 7 schools in ealrly Christianity. 5 believed in salvation for all peoples. 1 believed that sinners would cease to exist after they were thrown into the Lake fof fire. 1 beleived in an everlasting hell.

That 1 was Rome the most powerfull and it became the Catholic church. But as scholars have been able to discover the history of the church even the Catholic church has accepted Universal reconciliation

When the truth of Universal reconciliation in the Gospel is revealed it is incredibly powerful.
CPP





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:04 am    Post subject: What is your definition of God? Reply with quote

What is God :?: Is the Church of Scientology right that its something from outer space as Ron L Hubbard suggests :?:
905 Tory





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing with religion is a complex one. I have always felt that even if certain religions are "hoaxes," it actually doesn't matter. You could be worshipping a lie. The only thing that matters is that you believe it and live it. It matters whether you can use this religion to transcend your inner self and clean your misdeeds from the past. The only thing that lies between ourselves and what is truly best for us is our own misdeeds (different names for more or less the same thing in different religions: sins, karma, etc.). I don't doubt a force beyond the physical but I doubt that it is judgmental, or has a list of ten thing not to do but I do believe that we are our own judges and if we continue to "do evil," we will live a miserable life. Beyond life, I don't know what happens but doubt that we will be divided into two sections. I actually find the whole re-incarnation thing more logical but still don't find that to be a full account. We will never know but we will until it actually happens and the best way to prepare for that is to live a happy, transcending life here and now--whether or not with any religion. Some people need religion, some can do it on their own with a little inspiration.
gc





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

905 Tory wrote:
The thing with religion is a complex one. I have always felt that even if certain religions are "hoaxes," it actually doesn't matter. You could be worshipping a lie. The only thing that matters is that you believe it and live it. It matters whether you can use this religion to transcend your inner self and clean your misdeeds from the past. The only thing that lies between ourselves and what is truly best for us is our own misdeeds (different names for more or less the same thing in different religions: sins, karma, etc.). I don't doubt a force beyond the physical but I doubt that it is judgmental, or has a list of ten thing not to do but I do believe that we are our own judges and if we continue to "do evil," we will live a miserable life. Beyond life, I don't know what happens but doubt that we will be divided into two sections. I actually find the whole re-incarnation thing more logical but still don't find that to be a full account. We will never know but we will until it actually happens and the best way to prepare for that is to live a happy, transcending life here and now--whether or not with any religion. Some people need religion, some can do it on their own with a little inspiration.

Good post.
SFrank85





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Libertas wrote:
Quote:
With the exception of Christianity.


I'd include Christianity in there, any person who reads the book of Leviticus and thinks that's a good guide for making laws is no better than Islamic fundamentalists.

Quote:
Jesus was the son of god, or he was a liar and a fool. He can not be both. If Jesus was the true son of God, then he would be willing to sacrifice himself for humanity. If Jesus was not the real son of God, then if he was under pressure from authorities (which he was), then he would quickly renounce his views of him professing to be the son of God in order to not face certain death.


That once again is religious belief, and I don't believe in it.

Quote:
There is real proof that Jesus did exist, and was executed. Where there is difference is whether he rose from the dead on the third day or if he stayed dead. As a Christian, I believe he did rise from the dead, as there is proof from multiple sources, and from different accounts that this is true.


Problem is those accounts weren't written until decades after the fact. We don't even have the original transcripts available. Keep in mind the Bible as we know it wasn't put into one large canon until the First Council of Nicaea.

I have read alot about Christianity, especially from CS Lewis, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and Dinesh D'Souza. However I still don't believe Christianity is the only true religion, nor do I see any proof for such claims. I will state that it is far more humane, but when it comes to truth, I don't see it.

I would never argue that Christianity hasn't produced anything of value to it, but is it infallible, definitely not.


Well, obviously you do not know the teaching of Jesus. If you would actually do some research in Jesus teachings, because most of the Priestly Code in the Book of Leviticus.

As for the reason for the decades delay from the testaments of Jesus life is a simple one. Those who were Christians had to be in hiding for obvious reasons, such as death (Which ultimately happened to most of them).
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As for the reason for the decades delay from the testaments of Jesus life is a simple one. Those who were Christians had to be in hiding for obvious reasons, such as death (Which ultimately happened to most of them).


If you used the critque that the scriptures are not reliable because decades passed between Jesus' death the their writing on other writings of the past none would pass the test. The Christain scriptures are the most relaible text of the ancient world with less than a 50 years seperating the writing of the scriptures from their earliest existing copy. Use the same measue against any other ancient writings and the Scriptures are nothing less than a miracle.

Decades is nothing on the historical scale. Read "Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowel. He refutes that argument at great length.
CPP





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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:
Libertas wrote:
Quote:
With the exception of Christianity.


I'd include Christianity in there, any person who reads the book of Leviticus and thinks that's a good guide for making laws is no better than Islamic fundamentalists.

Quote:
Jesus was the son of god, or he was a liar and a fool. He can not be both. If Jesus was the true son of God, then he would be willing to sacrifice himself for humanity. If Jesus was not the real son of God, then if he was under pressure from authorities (which he was), then he would quickly renounce his views of him professing to be the son of God in order to not face certain death.


That once again is religious belief, and I don't believe in it.

Quote:
There is real proof that Jesus did exist, and was executed. Where there is difference is whether he rose from the dead on the third day or if he stayed dead. As a Christian, I believe he did rise from the dead, as there is proof from multiple sources, and from different accounts that this is true.


Problem is those accounts weren't written until decades after the fact. We don't even have the original transcripts available. Keep in mind the Bible as we know it wasn't put into one large canon until the First Council of Nicaea.

I have read alot about Christianity, especially from CS Lewis, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and Dinesh D'Souza. However I still don't believe Christianity is the only true religion, nor do I see any proof for such claims. I will state that it is far more humane, but when it comes to truth, I don't see it.

I would never argue that Christianity hasn't produced anything of value to it, but is it infallible, definitely not.


Well, obviously you do not know the teaching of Jesus. If you would actually do some research in Jesus teachings, because most of the Priestly Code in the Book of Leviticus.

As for the reason for the decades delay from the testaments of Jesus life is a simple one. Those who were Christians had to be in hiding for obvious reasons, such as death (Which ultimately happened to most of them).


Just more words. As the old TV commercial goes 'wheres the beef' in other words, wheres the proof and not something written by man.
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