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kwlafayette
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 5705
  
votes: 27
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
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 Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| ezbeatz wrote: |
Bennett was from Calgary. I don't think voters really care where a Prime Minister is from. But it does have an affect on party nominations, especially within the LPC where a lot of their core support is from Toronto and Montreal. The PC's probably got a lot of their traditional support for nominations from Ontario as well. |
I disagree. Starting from now and going back, the Prime Ministers who were not from Ontario or Quebec were:
Stephen Harper - Calgary
Kim Campbell - BC
John Turner - Vancouver Quadra
Joe Clark - Alberta
The Chief - Saskatchewan
And I cannot think of any more. 3 people on that list are not, how shall I put this? 3 of those people are not text book examples of electoral success, shall we say.
Voters definitely care where their PMs come from, and they definitely keep score.
PS. I meant to say, the keep score, brother. |
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kwlafayette
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 5705
votes: 27
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Mac wrote: | | kwlafayette wrote: | | How many Prime Ministers from Saskatchewan have there ever been? |
Although he never grabbed the brass ring, Tommy Douglas came from Saskatchewan and look at the mess he managed to foist on us!!
-Mac |
This is a shining example of what can be accomplished from opposition. |
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John Larocque
Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 193
Location: North York, Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| kwlafayette wrote: | Stephen Harper - Calgary
Kim Campbell - BC
John Turner - Vancouver Quadra
Joe Clark - Alberta
The Chief - Saskatchewan
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If Harper's a transplanted Easterner, Turner's a transplanted Westerner, having attended Upper Canada College and practiced law in the province of Quebec and represented a Montreal riding for nearly a decade before his first retirement.
You left out R. B. Bennett of Calgary. Another transplanted Easterner (by way of New Brunswick). |
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Mac
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5485
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| kwlafayette wrote: | | This is a shining example of what can be accomplished from opposition. |
I don't know about shining but your point (effective opposition works) is very valid. Now... since you're having fun with lists, how many effective conservative opposition leaders can you think of? It's a pretty short list IHMO.
-Mac |
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cosmostein
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 3210
votes: 13
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Mac wrote: | | kwlafayette wrote: | | This is a shining example of what can be accomplished from opposition. |
I don't know about shining but your point (effective opposition works) is very valid. Now... since you're having fun with lists, how many effective conservative opposition leaders can you think of? It's a pretty short list IHMO.
-Mac |
I think the list stops and starts with Preston Manning,
And while I am sure I will be tarred and feathered for this comment, its easy to be Principals when you have no chance of being elected to govern.
Preston could be as Conservative as he wanted to be simply because from 1988 - 2000 the Reform party was basically Bloc West.
While I don't agree with the guy, I would say Duceppe has stuck to his party principals the most of any of the leaders in recent memory, but then again its much easier when you stick to discussing a platform that would never be implemented. |
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Mac
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5485
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| cosmostein wrote: | | I think the list stops and starts with Preston Manning, |
I didn't mind Preston and many of his ideas are (and were) excellent but was he truly effective? Can you find an example of policy which Manning influenced while he was in opposition? I'm drawing a blank.
| cosmostein wrote: | | And while I am sure I will be tarred and feathered for this comment, its easy to be Principals when you have no chance of being elected to govern. |
Why would you be tarred & feathered for that? It's simple truth. How many times did regulars here described Jack Layton as being a principled socialist.... at least before Jacko went wacko and joined into the "Coalition of the Damned". Ed Broadbent? All the principles in the world... but was he an effective opposition leader? I would rate him above Layton but that doesn't take much.
| cosmostein wrote: | | Preston could be as Conservative as he wanted to be simply because from 1988 - 2000 the Reform party was basically Bloc West. |
Exactly... It was a western protest party but Reform didn't change the direction of government until it evolved under Stephen Harper. That's when Chretien decided retirement was a good idea...
| cosmostein wrote: | | While I don't agree with the guy, I would say Duceppe has stuck to his party principals the most of any of the leaders in recent memory, but then again its much easier when you stick to discussing a platform that would never be implemented. |
The scary part about Duceppe isn't faithful to his party's original principles... he pulled a centrist protest party far, far to the left in keeping with his Marxist/Leninist roots.
-Mac |
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SFrank85
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2234
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| kwlafayette wrote: | | ezbeatz wrote: |
Bennett was from Calgary. I don't think voters really care where a Prime Minister is from. But it does have an affect on party nominations, especially within the LPC where a lot of their core support is from Toronto and Montreal. The PC's probably got a lot of their traditional support for nominations from Ontario as well. |
I disagree. Starting from now and going back, the Prime Ministers who were not from Ontario or Quebec were:
Stephen Harper - Calgary
Kim Campbell - BC
John Turner - Vancouver Quadra
Joe Clark - Alberta
The Chief - Saskatchewan
And I cannot think of any more. 3 people on that list are not, how shall I put this? 3 of those people are not text book examples of electoral success, shall we say.
Voters definitely care where their PMs come from, and they definitely keep score.
PS. I meant to say, the keep score, brother. |
You forgot Robert Borden!
I don't care where the leader comes from, as long as that leader has true conservative values. |
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FF_Canuck
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3306
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| I don't really care where a leader comes from either. There is one prominent Alberta MP in particular whom I would very much not want to win the leadership in the future, and another one that I would be very, very pleased with. |
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Mike McB
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 78
votes: 2
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| kwlafayette wrote: |
Stephen Harper - Calgary
Kim Campbell - BC
John Turner - Vancouver Quadra
Joe Clark - Alberta
The Chief - Saskatchewan
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Prime Minister Harper was born in Toronto and went to high school just down street from my house at Richview Collegiate Institute.. |
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kwlafayette
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 5705
votes: 27
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| So, no PMs from Manitoba, and none from any of the east coast provinces. None from the territories. Seems like Ontario and Quebec do not really know the meaning of the word "share". Some of you may not care where your PM comes from, but I do. |
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kwlafayette
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 5705
votes: 27
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Mac wrote: | | cosmostein wrote: | | I think the list stops and starts with Preston Manning, |
I didn't mind Preston and many of his ideas are (and were) excellent but was he truly effective? Can you find an example of policy which Manning influenced while he was in opposition? I'm drawing a blank.
-Mac |
Balanced budgets, and the clarity act, just off the top of my head. |
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Mike McB
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 78
votes: 2
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| kwlafayette wrote: | | So, no PMs from Manitoba, and none from any of the east coast provinces. None from the territories. Seems like Ontario and Quebec do not really know the meaning of the word "share". Some of you may not care where your PM comes from, but I do. |
I agree with you one hundred percent.. Ontario and especially Quebec have had way to many PM's considering the size and diversity of our great country. We need Prime Ministers that come from all over Canada and not just Ontario and Quebec. |
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kwlafayette
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 5705
votes: 27
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| And as for the whole where were the born argument, it holds no water. It is all about where you chose to live, and the people you choose to represent. Otherwise, John Turner would be form the UK instead of Vancouver. |
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Mac
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5485
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| kwlafayette wrote: | | Balanced budgets, and the clarity act, just off the top of my head. |
The Liberals balanced budgets by a combination of accounting tricks, downloading costs onto the provinces and robbing federal pension funds (including mine) and Unemployment Insurance funds. In fact, the Auditor General changed some of the criteria of their reporting specifically to address the Liberals chicanery. Manning may have made noise but if he did influence the Liberals, it wasn't a positive development in my humble opinion.
My understanding was always that Stephen Harper was the main mover & shaker behind the Clarity Act but since Manning was the leader at the time, I suppose you can say he played his part.
That being said, I believe Manning was one of the most effective conservatives in opposition... and the many of the others were completely ineffective...
-Mac |
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SFrank85
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2234
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Especially that Joe Who? guy!  |
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