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So, would you... support abortion if you were to "leave the religion and [b]morality [/b]out" of your opinion?
yes
57%
 57%  [ 4 ]
No (please explain)
42%
 42%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 7

Author Message
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject: So, would you... Reply with quote

So, would you... support abortion if you were to "leave the religion and morality out" of your opinion? I sure would, as my only qualms with abortion are on moral grounds, killing innocents.

I bring this up as it was another persons perceived opinion on this site that we should leave morality out of the abortion debate. I don't see how you can separate the 2 :?
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You canít separate the two. That is who those who are pro abortion are always wanting to leave morality out of the debate because they can not win on moral grounds.
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would support murder, rape, pedophilia, incest, and genocide if morality was "left out of it".
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 2262
Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9
votes: 8
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:43 am    Post subject: Re: So, would you... Reply with quote

Rusty Bedsprings wrote:
So, would you... support abortion if you were to "leave the religion and morality out" of your opinion? I sure would, as my only qualms with abortion are on moral grounds, killing innocents.

I bring this up as it was another persons perceived opinion on this site that we should leave morality out of the abortion debate. I don't see how you can separate the 2 :?


Outside those two considerations - there is the fact that in general it's a 'messy' choice of birth control - for both the women and for society in general - from the 'medical' standpoint it is a waste of resources and it enjoins an unacceptable risk to the women's health - such a messy wasteful procedure can be prevented.
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don wrote:
Quote:
Outside those two considerations - there is the fact that in general it's a 'messy' choice of birth control - for both the women and for society in general - from the 'medical' standpoint it is a waste of resources and it enjoins an unacceptable risk to the women's health - such a messy wasteful procedure can be prevented.


good point. Now does everybody see how morality is anti-progressive :) we should all transfer this learning to other parts of our lives. :roll:

I don't need to stop for that person crossing the bridge because she'll be thrown off into the water, no mess, no problem :wink:
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are citizens. Born into our western culture, they will be steeped from birth in such quaint and out dated concepts as democracy, rule of law, the English language, liberty, and the like. Or we could go on importing people with a violent tribal mindset, who are very resistant to assimilating, or even learning English. We have never before had to deal with communities like this, where the second and third generation still identify with the home country of their parents or grand parents, and hold their country of residence in contempt.

The London bombers had British accents.

PS. I forgot one, Queen and Country. It is the opposite of the tribal/vendetta mindset.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just consider for a moment the problems that tribalism cause in our country. Think gang violence. Hasn't that been on the rise lately?
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kw WROTE:
Quote:
Those are citizens. Born into our western culture, they will be steeped from birth in such quaint and out dated concepts as democracy, rule of law, the English language, liberty, and the like. Or we could go on importing people with a violent tribal mindset, who are very resistant to assimilating, or even learning English. We have never before had to deal with communities like this, where the second and third generation still identify with the home country of their parents or grand parents, and hold their country of residence in contempt.

The London bombers had British accents.

PS. I forgot one, Queen and Country. It is the opposite of the tribal/vendetta mindset.


I think I agree but how does this relate to the topic?
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rusty Bedsprings wrote:
Kw WROTE:
Quote:
Those are citizens. Born into our western culture, they will be steeped from birth in such quaint and out dated concepts as democracy, rule of law, the English language, liberty, and the like. Or we could go on importing people with a violent tribal mindset, who are very resistant to assimilating, or even learning English. We have never before had to deal with communities like this, where the second and third generation still identify with the home country of their parents or grand parents, and hold their country of residence in contempt.

The London bombers had British accents.

PS. I forgot one, Queen and Country. It is the opposite of the tribal/vendetta mindset.


I think I agree but how does this relate to the topic?

I think he's saying, the more of our population born and raised in Canada, the better.
DavidK





Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1520
Reputation: 68.5
votes: 5
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
I would support murder, rape, pedophilia, incest, and genocide if morality was "left out of it".


Good point.

Rusty,

It's unfair to lump religion and morality in the same category. While I personally believe that a person of faith will most likely have good morals that isn't always the case. And the same can be said of non-believers.

I know many that don't share my faith (or any faith), but yet we can have similar views on what is socially acceptable and morally correct. (ie Gay Marriage or Abortion)

The two don't have to be mutually exclusive though. Sometimes having morals is just having common sense.
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

david wrote:
Quote:
Rusty,

It's unfair to lump religion and morality in the same category. While I personally believe that a person of faith will most likely have good morals that isn't always the case. And the same can be said of non-believers.

I know many that don't share my faith (or any faith), but yet we can have similar views on what is socially acceptable and morally correct. (ie Gay Marriage or Abortion)

The two don't have to be mutually exclusive though. Sometimes having morals is just having common sense.


nor do I. I was only quoting another member of BT who said that. I'll find you the whole quote to put it in perspective and do justice to the member.
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jordan Alcock wrote:
Quote:
I'm really not a social conservative; my gripe with abortions is on two fronts:

It bothers me to no end that my tax dollars go toward them.

They leave men behind, with no choice as to their child's survival and full responsibility if she decides to keep the child. She gets a choice for a decision they both made...

I don't have any religious or moral disagreement with the procedure, although I wouldn't encourage them... I think we should be discouraging them, but having them available to people who chose to have them(and pay for them themselves) doesn't really bother me. It's their choice, they have to live with it.

As conservatives as a whole, I think we need to take this battle to the fiscal side if we(collectively) want to move further on it. Focus on the fact we pay for them, leave the religion and morality out for now. I am sure you will find a good deal more people objecting to paying for them than you will objecting on moral grounds (the two belong to the same group).



I find it confusing because without the morality part why would we want to stop abortions?

I find that a lot of the people who support abortions try to leave morality out of it but that's exactly what it's all about, right? Killing babies is immoral or am I missing something?
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