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Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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votes: 5

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:40 pm    Post subject: Can their be too many? Reply with quote

I assume everyone's heard about the woman with 14 babies. I was wondering what people thought about this. I would never want to set a limit on the amount of babies a woman can have but at some point 10,11,12,20, does it become unethical to condone having more kids? I would support a ban on fertilization drugs for people with already 4 kids, what about you?




http://www.canada.com/health/O.....story.html
ezbeatz





Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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votes: 10
Location: Vaughan, ON

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, they're shouldn't be a limit. Maybe she's a good parent. Maybe she's a bad parent. But whose going to make that decision? A bureaucrat.

You're going to end up with the same ridiculous problem you have with the HRC. Where hate speech from one group is okay but politically incorrect speech from another group is totally unacceptable. Can you imagine any liberal going out there and telling Muslims they can only have so many kids yet they wouldn't hesitate if it were a Christian.
ezbeatz





Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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Location: Vaughan, ON

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would also like to point out that in nations with low fertility, criticism of parents who have a lot of kids is quite ironic. I was amazed that Fox news kept attacking this women. What about the tax dollars they said? Well, my reply is what about the tax dollars down the road when all those boomers are going to retire? If you have no kids to pay those taxes then what do you do?

The reason I mentioned Fox is because I expect ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, CBC, CTV, BBC, and all the others to criticism parents with a lot of kids but not Fox.

Anybody remember that woman last year from BC who had 18 kids. The thing with a large family is the children grow up with more maturity because they have more responsibility from a earlier age. There's no hovering parent syndrome.
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
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votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Can their be too many? Reply with quote

Rusty Bedsprings wrote:
I assume everyone's heard about the woman with 14 babies. I was wondering what people thought about this. I would never want to set a limit on the amount of babies a woman can have but at some point 10,11,12,20, does it become unethical to condone having more kids? I would support a ban on fertilization drugs for people with already 4 kids, what about you?




http://www.canada.com/health/O.....story.html


Rusty,

I don't think their should be a limit to the number of kids you can have, but then I have 7 or 8 myself. :wink:

If you aren't paying for the fertilization treatments what do you care? I do think that some folks need family to step up and give them a slap upside the head maybe....but to ever let the government have even a tiny wedge in that discussion I shudder...


I just read a story how in the UK have introduced the idea of a two child limit because kids leave a carbon foot print. :shock: Once you open that box you give permission to anybody having input and spin.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is not how many kids, but why the doctor would implant so many embryos into her in the first place (which is very questionable ethics in its own right). This woman does have serious mental issues. She has no husband; her mother takes care of the other six children she had earlier, no money coming in, and already two disabled children. I do not believe the state should set limits on children; however this woman does need help. She is very unstable, and she does not take care of the six children she already had before this.
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to set a limit on the # of kids someone can have but maybe the doctors should have stricter ethics laws. I think 3 out of the 8 octuplets we born with disabilities. Also as frank has pointed out they are just being born into a family made up of one dead beat women. I don't know, she seems irresponsible to me and if she is not going to take her role as a mother seriously then should the state step in? I agree that bureaucrats are horrible parts of our society and the right to birth (or fertilisation treatment etc) should never be put in their hands but what the hell is this woman doing?
ezbeatz





Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard that dead beat mom got $2 million+ for her first TV interview. Not bad chump change. I agree with Diefenbaker that the biggest concern is with the number of embryos - 8.

WOW!
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
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votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Can their be too many? Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:
I just read a story how in the UK have introduced the idea of a two child limit because kids leave a carbon foot print. :shock: Once you open that box you give permission to anybody having input and spin.

Doesn't that sound like a real Suzuki kind of idea?

I remember years ago when I worked patrol, I picked up a kid who'd run away from his group home and was reported missing. As we drove along, we talked and he told me that he was the oldest of seven kids. His mom had her tubes tied after seven kids but had them untied so she could breed with her latest boyfriend. As soon as she was pregnant, she gave custody of her four oldest kids to the Ministry because she felt she was incapable of raising them.

Ready for the capper? He ran from the group home as one of the siblings still at "home" had called the group home to tell her eldest brother she was hungry. This 14 year old was more responsible than the creature who gave birth to him.

For the record, I don't believe the government should be deciding how many kids we should have but I also don't believe governments should be providing fertility services for free.

-Mac
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Can their be too many? Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
crazymamma wrote:
I just read a story how in the UK have introduced the idea of a two child limit because kids leave a carbon foot print. :shock: Once you open that box you give permission to anybody having input and spin.

Doesn't that sound like a real Suzuki kind of idea?

I remember years ago when I worked patrol, I picked up a kid who'd run away from his group home and was reported missing. As we drove along, we talked and he told me that he was the oldest of seven kids. His mom had her tubes tied after seven kids but had them untied so she could breed with her latest boyfriend. As soon as she was pregnant, she gave custody of her four oldest kids to the Ministry because she felt she was incapable of raising them.

Ready for the capper? He ran from the group home as one of the siblings still at "home" had called the group home to tell her eldest brother she was hungry. This 14 year old was more responsible than the creature who gave birth to him.

For the record, I don't believe the government should be deciding how many kids we should have but I also don't believe governments should be providing fertility services for free.

-Mac


The funny thing is how many children does our friend David Suzuki have? I believe he has five.
Habsrwfan





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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Can their be too many? Reply with quote

Rusty Bedsprings wrote:
I assume everyone's heard about the woman with 14 babies. I was wondering what people thought about this. I would never want to set a limit on the amount of babies a woman can have but at some point 10,11,12,20, does it become unethical to condone having more kids? I would support a ban on fertilization drugs for people with already 4 kids, what about you?




http://www.canada.com/health/O.....story.html


The issue is not how many children a women has. The question is who's providing for them?

A good, financially strong family can frequently support very large, healthy, productive families. In other words, if the net income of the household can support 10, 11, 12, 20 children - go for it! If you want a family that large, and are willing to support them yourself, the more power to you. My maternal grandmother had nine children... and her and my maternal grandfather supported them all with out government assistance. And all of those children ended up being productive, gainfully employed members of society.

The problem is when people intentionally procreate with the goal of having the state support them and their children. That's the problem.

Perhaps there should be a law in place that if you're on social assistance, there's a limit to how many children you can have. Once you're off social assistance, it's all up to you.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
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votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Can their be too many? Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:
The funny thing is how many children does our friend David Suzuki have? I believe he has five.

I believe you're right... yet he keeps moaning about overpopulation. Hypocrisy from the Fruitfly Guy? Imagine that!!

-Mac
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Can their be too many? Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
SFrank85 wrote:
The funny thing is how many children does our friend David Suzuki have? I believe he has five.

I believe you're right... yet he keeps moaning about overpopulation. Hypocrisy from the Fruitfly Guy? Imagine that!!

-Mac


Not meaning to sound like a fan of eugenics, but I would rather see a renown scientist (from his work before he entered politics) have five kids than a welfare mother pop out another 8.
Intelligence has a strong genetic component and the fact that people with Phd's are being out bred by people too stoopid to work birth control is kinda scary.
ezbeatz





Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch! Good thing she didn't go the full term.
lucamanfredi





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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep the government out of the bedroom and out of a woman's womb I say. Otherwise we lend David Suzuki and his ilk one more tool to push their agenda.

I don't think we can find a solution to this issue. When a family can't provide for the kids, the kids get taken into care and foster families. So the cycle repeats itself for the other kids. On the other hand, we cannot forcefully sterilize or in any other way intervene upon a person's body out of policy reasonings.

The "social security" limitation may be a compromise, but then setting the limit will give the government a gigantic amount of discretionary power, which I instinctively do not trust it with. I guess we'll have to work with what we've got, give foster parents quicker and less stressful ways to adopt, strengthen monitoring of "at-risk" families and encourage people to register as prospective foster parents (tax incentives, for instance).

There are many rich families in Canada who, despite being able, will not have more than one or two kids. Considering Canada's affordable education and healthcare systems, there is almost no reason not to encourage them to join the foster family system. As an encouragement we could also have some special gong ("Heroic Families Order") to bestow upon them when they reach some milestone, e.g. raised 5 foster kids.

My two cents
fiscalconservative





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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a though....make the fertility doctor who was responsible for all of her 14 kids pay child support!
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