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If a person is in a irreversible vegetative brain dead state, should they be kept alive by feeding tube (you get to decide)?
Yes
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
No
100%
 100%  [ 13 ]
I will just close my eyes and the problem will go away
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 13

Author Message
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject: Vegetative state? Reply with quote

So if a person was in a irreversible brain dead state, only being kept alive by a feeding tube, should he/she have the feeding tube or not (they have no will and for the sake of the question, you are their benefactor/guardian)?


Bonus question, how does Christianity feel about this (I don't know, I'm asking you)?
Hasdrubal





Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 1112
Reputation: 66
votes: 5
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very difficult decision but I would say take them off life support & let god decide.
DavidK





Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1520
Reputation: 68.5
votes: 5
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all the stuff happening today my family and I have actually discussed this. I'd say no. If my body is alive but there's nothing upsdtairs, pull the plug, please!

As far as the Christian/faith based view... I'd agree with the above. Let God deal with that. I'm no good to anyone just laying there drooling, sleeping and eating through a tube!
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can understand keeping someone on life support for a short time to see if there is any chance of recovery but after that, pull the plug.

-Mac
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 1043
Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9
votes: 6

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Vegetative state? Reply with quote

Rusty Bedsprings wrote:
So if a person was in a irreversible brain dead state, only being kept alive by a feeding tube, should he/she have the feeding tube or not (they have no will and for the sake of the question, you are their benefactor/guardian)?


Bonus question, how does Christianity feel about this (I don't know, I'm asking you)?


Remove the feeding tube, no question.
As for Christianity, I am not a theologian, but I don't see a problem once you get to brain dead. Really, what is the difference between keeping the body alive through artificial means, or just the left kidney. With no brain it doesn't matter.

As for Vegetative state....there might be controversy there. There was the Terry Shrivo thing...but there were differing views on her medical condition. Certainly the mainstream medical community thought she was vegetative, but many in the religious right got alternate medical opinions that she could recover (which later turned out to be false)
Had they acknowledged her real condition, there opinion might have been different
Habsrwfan





Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 688
Reputation: 49.8Reputation: 49.8Reputation: 49.8Reputation: 49.8Reputation: 49.8
votes: 5

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Vegetative state? Reply with quote

Rusty Bedsprings wrote:
So if a person was in a irreversible brain dead state, only being kept alive by a feeding tube, should he/she have the feeding tube or not (they have no will and for the sake of the question, you are their benefactor/guardian)?


Bonus question, how does Christianity feel about this (I don't know, I'm asking you)?


Unless this person had a living will, or a legal guardian, indicating that the person in question wanted to stay alive while in such a vegetative state... I would pull the plug.

Some people associate this with euthanasia, but I personally don't.

I, as a Christian, think of it this way - this person, who is in a vegetative state, would have been completely dead already if he or she was living in Jesus' time, when our level of technology was far less than what it was today.

With this in mind, I doubt that Jesus Himself takes exception to us choosing to simply not use technology available to us now that can artificially extend natural life.

Actually, there are times when I think that artificially extending a person's natural life like this, while they are in a vegetative state, is against God's will.


The Terry Shrivo case was a bit more complex in that it was brought to the fore by a fierce disagreement between Terry's parents, and Terry's husband. Terry's parents wanted to keep her alive as long as possible, while Terry's husband wanted to pull the plug, and unfortunetly, Terry didn't have a living will specifying what to do in the situation.

Personally, for a young wife like her, I think that the parents should have the final say - not the husband. Particularly in our high divorce rate age - almost all parents remain loyal to their kids through out life, while a good 50% or more of spouses don't remain loyal to their marriage partners.

I may not agree with the decision made by Terry's parents, but I have no doubt that it came from the hearts and minds of genuinely loving parents. Frankly, I have my doubts about the sincerity of her husband. The fact that he had moved on to a new serious romantic relationship while Terry was still alive in a vegetative state (IIRC) was... questionable, at best, imo.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are these the same doctors that said thalidomide was perfectly safe for pregnant women telling you the situation is irreversible?
darkstorme





Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Posts: 18
Reputation: 21.6Reputation: 21.6

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Vegetative state? Reply with quote

Habsrwfan wrote:
I, as a Christian, think of it this way - this person, who is in a vegetative state, would have been completely dead already if he or she was living in Jesus' time, when our level of technology was far less than what it was today.

With this in mind, I doubt that Jesus Himself takes exception to us choosing to simply not use technology available to us now that can artificially extend natural life.


Bear in mind, though, that in Jesus' time, in the Roman Empire average lifespan was 20-25. This average is weighted, mind you, by the astonishing number of people who died as infants, or as adolescents - but by the logic of "it's alright to turn 'em off because they would've died in Jesus' time", jaundiced babies, diabetics, and Lou Gehrig's disease patients, to name a few, could as easily be allowed to expire.

Myself, if I were either braindead or in a persistent vegetative state, I think I'd rather be switched off than be a burden to family and State. But I thought I'd play devil's advocate for those who equate "Jesus' time" with "correct action".
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What my concern on the subject is, is that, how much of a body has to be working to constitute life? Say for example in the future their are brain transplants possible and a brain (Joe's brain) gets put into someones body (Max's body), who's soul occupies the body, Joe's or Max's? Is your soul attached to a certain organ/muscle or does you soul simply not care about what it manifests? This is important because if the soul of max still occupies the person then in your opinion you should be for keeping the feeding tube in, follow me? And if you think that Joe's soul now occupies the body because his brain got implanted in it you should be against feeding tubes since you would say the brain is what the soul is attached to. Though their is a mushy middle, so I will ask you, how much of your body is needed to constitute it as your body, how much of your body must be present for your soul to be present (what parts of your body are definitely attached to your soul, any?)?
Bleatmop





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Reputation: 17.5Reputation: 17.5
votes: 10

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Are these the same doctors that said thalidomide was perfectly safe for pregnant women telling you the situation is irreversible?


I thought it would be pharmacist researchers that would do that.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are in a brain dead state, then of course you should pull the plug. It is not un-Christian to let someone die who is already dead. I have no problem with a brain dead person. In the case of someone who can still respond to actions around them, then that is a whole different matter. But brain-dead/unresponsive, it would be the right thing to let them go.
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank wrote:
Quote:
If you are in a brain dead state, then of course you should pull the plug. It is not un-Christian to let someone die who is already dead. I have no problem with a brain dead person. In the case of someone who can still respond to actions around them, then that is a whole different matter. But brain-dead/unresponsive, it would be the right thing to let them go.


well the whole point of the controversy is that they aren't dead, they are alive. The question is, is that type of life worth living for anyone?
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Vegetative state?

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