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Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:45 pm    Post subject: Pollution is bad Reply with quote

I don't think there is global warming but I still belive pollution hurts us in other ways. I would support a higher gas tax and coal tax but thats about it.

What do you think Canada should do for the enviroment?
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Pollution is bad Reply with quote

Rusty Bedsprings wrote:
I don't think there is global warming but I still belive pollution hurts us in other ways. I would support a higher gas tax and coal tax but thats about it.

What do you think Canada should do for the enviroment?

How would a gas tax help prevent pollution? All it does is drive up costs of transportation and heating.

Enact legislation making any company which wants to exploit resources directly responsible for the ecological damage from resource extraction by mandating each company create a clean up fund sufficient to restore the land.

-Mac
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote
Quote:
How would a gas tax help prevent pollution? All it does is drive up costs of transportation and heating.

Enact legislation making any company which wants to exploit resources directly responsible for the ecological damage from resource extraction by mandating each company create a clean up fund sufficient to restore the land.


A gas tax would make more people use public transit or just drive less. Your solution would mean no company would extract any resources from Canada.
mr12387





Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 261
Reputation: 60.6
votes: 2
Location: Laval, Quebec

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Increased taxes are not the answer. It's like trying to put a band aid on a broken arm. If you really want to curb pollution, Mac's way of doing it is the right way to go; got to start at the source. And while you are right to believe these companies will incur added costs they would in most cases still be extremely profitable.
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr wrote
Quote:
Increased taxes are not the answer. It's like trying to put a band aid on a broken arm. If you really want to curb pollution, Mac's way of doing it is the right way to go; got to start at the source. And while you are right to believe these companies will incur added costs they would in most cases still be extremely profitable.


I guess so...
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rusty Bedsprings wrote:
Mac wrote
Quote:
How would a gas tax help prevent pollution? All it does is drive up costs of transportation and heating.

Enact legislation making any company which wants to exploit resources directly responsible for the ecological damage from resource extraction by mandating each company create a clean up fund sufficient to restore the land.


A gas tax would make more people use public transit or just drive less. Your solution would mean no company would extract any resources from Canada.


And your solution would only cause to keep more folks in colder houses and help drive up the cost of food.

Seems to me we already sorta hashed this out last october...Green shift ring a bell?
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Pollution is bad Reply with quote

Rusty Bedsprings wrote:
I don't think there is global warming but I still belive pollution hurts us in other ways. I would support a higher gas tax and coal tax but thats about it.

What do you think Canada should do for the enviroment?


I agree with you. Drive up the cost of gas and people will demand more fuel efficient transportation. And transportation is the number one cause of urban pollution.

But any increase in gas tax should be tempered by a decrease in another tax.
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:
And your solution would only cause to keep more folks in colder houses and help drive up the cost of food.


It would put pressure on people to buy more efficient furnaces and for transport companies to buy more efficient vehicles. Both are good things.

Quote:
Seems to me we already sorta hashed this out last october...Green shift ring a bell?


The problem with the green shift was that it was a NEW tax. We don't need another tax. We need to re-balance our existing ones.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rusty Bedsprings wrote:
A gas tax would make more people use public transit or just drive less. Your solution would mean no company would extract any resources from Canada.

With all due respect, I'm in Ottawa where the public transit system is on strike. How much sympathy do you think I have for public transit right now? What do they want? More wages (typical) and control of scheduling so they can ensure they get loads of extra overtime. Do you really think I want to give these unions even more power to cripple the city?

Higher gas taxes only means more money for governments to spend on socialism and high costs across the board. Didn't the record high prices for gas and diesel this year demonstrate such?

Which would you rather have: a company paying for the damage they create or the taxpayer doing so? If companies can't afford the cleanup, they shouldn't be extracting the resources in a manner which creates such a mess.

In most cases, environmental damage and pollution are as a result of lazy practices, lack of planning and/or the sure knowledge the government will clean up after them. Throw the onus back onto the companies with a corresponding cut in corporate taxation and they'll take care of business.

-Mac
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr12387 wrote:
Increased taxes are not the answer. It's like trying to put a band aid on a broken arm.


So conversely, cutting taxes has no effect either? Cutting income taxes doesn't increase economic activity? Cutting the GST doesn't encourage spending?
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
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votes: 36

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
In most cases, environmental damage and pollution are as a result of lazy practices, lack of planning and/or the sure knowledge the government will clean up after them. Throw the onus back onto the companies with a corresponding cut in corporate taxation and they'll take care of business.


So having the government regulate industry is the answer?

I would rather increase one tax and decrease another than hire 1000 public servants to enforce regulations.
mr12387





Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 261
Reputation: 60.6
votes: 2
Location: Laval, Quebec

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Pollution is bad Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Drive up the cost of gas and people will demand more fuel efficient transportation.


I think that's only true to a certain degree. It was only a couple months ago Saudi Arabia talked about increasing supply in order to decrease gas prices, which would effectively get people to shut up about fuel efficiency. You'd have to artificially keep gas prices at a certain rate (irregardless of supply) for a gas tax to work.

And while I don't mean to sound like a leftist, governments and automobile companies bending down to the oil lobby is also a major part of the problem. More efficient/less pollutant technologies has been around for a long time.
ezbeatz





Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 1140
Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5
votes: 10
Location: Vaughan, ON

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Pollution is bad Reply with quote

Rusty Bedsprings wrote:
I don't think there is global warming but I still belive pollution hurts us in other ways. I would support a higher gas tax and coal tax but thats about it.

What do you think Canada should do for the enviroment?


I'm against higher taxes...period. I do agree pollution is bad but you have to tackle with innovation and the development of new technology not with higher taxes.
mr12387





Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 261
Reputation: 60.6
votes: 2
Location: Laval, Quebec

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
mr12387 wrote:
Increased taxes are not the answer. It's like trying to put a band aid on a broken arm.


So conversely, cutting taxes has no effect either? Cutting income taxes doesn't increase economic activity? Cutting the GST doesn't encourage spending?


Personally, while I'm all for cutting taxes it's only effective when spending is cut as well. Otherwise it has the same band aid effect. Take less from me now but go into deficit later so that I have to pay interest on the money you shouldn't have spent in the first place.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
So having the government regulate industry is the answer?

I would rather increase one tax and decrease another than hire 1000 public servants to enforce regulations.

Good point. The less regulations, the better... the less bureaucrats, the better... the less taxes, the better... to a point...

I guess it's a matter of setting priorities. Are preventing pollution and cleaning up environmental damage important? How important??

Take, for example, the aircraft industry. The Ministry of Transportation regulates safety for all aircraft but the onus for all of the maintenance, reporting and record keeping lies firmly on the industry. Anyone caught cheating loses their certification and they're grounded. Records analysis and spot checks are enough to keep the industry honest. Yes, there's the occasional problem but it's usually found out and dealt with quickly.

Food for thought. I'm mull this one over a bit more too... This much I know- adding more fuel taxes without changing anything else is a bad idea.

-Mac
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