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should ohip cover sexchanges?
ya (it's like a birth right)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
no
94%
 94%  [ 17 ]
mabey but only if.....
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 18

Author Message
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:04 am    Post subject: ohip covers what!!! Reply with quote

Quote:
The small number of Ontarians hoping for sex-change operations will soon see the surgery covered by provincial health insurance again.

The decision is expected to cost a total of $200,000 a year because just "eight to 10" people annually are expected to pass the "very rigorous" psychological evaluation required before sex reassignment surgery, Health Minister George Smitherman said yesterday.

"It's a very serious medical condition that affects a very small number of people," he told reporters, noting that other provinces including Alberta pay for the surgery.

Smitherman acknowledged the coverage could be controversial in some circles, given the heavy demands on Ontario's health-care system from people with rare, life-threatening diseases, for example.

"I think that people should be careful not to use what is $200,000 on a $40.2 billion health budget as an excuse to try a bit of a `them and us' conversation," he said.

It was 10 years ago that the previous Progressive Conservative government declared the operations were no longer eligible under the taxpayer-funded Ontario Health Insurance Plan, which had covered the surgery since 1971.

That prompted complaints to the Ontario Human Rights Commission from transsexuals whose progression through the psychological evaluation to gender reassignment surgery was interrupted.

Two years ago, the commission ordered the government to compensate three patients who had begun the sex-change process.

Smitherman's announcement was welcomed by the transsexual community, but one group is hoping the criteria for gender reassignment surgery will be made "less rigorous" than the 1970s standards used before taxpayer funding for the operation was axed.

"A more sensitive model would be appropriate," said Susan Gapka of the Rainbow Health Network.

Gapka said it's hard to say how many people are awaiting the surgery.

"It's a hidden population ... there's a large community in Ontario and in Toronto and southern Ontario."

While details of the policy are still being worked out, Smitherman said patients will likely be sent to a clinic in Montreal that specializes in the surgery, which costs about $20,000.

The Liberals had promised to reinstate the coverage of sex change operations.

More details will be announced in a few weeks, Smitherman said.

The details were announced and i believe sex changes are now covered.


It's really funny (not) that my eyes arn't covered in ontario as an adult and yet some BS surgery is, WTF :evil: .
nathaliejcaron





Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 305
Reputation: 20.4Reputation: 20.4
votes: 2
Location: Ottawa West -- Nepean

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: ohip covers what!!! Reply with quote

Rusty Bedsprings wrote:
Quote:
The small number of Ontarians hoping for sex-change operations will soon see the surgery covered by provincial health insurance again.

The decision is expected to cost a total of $200,000 a year because just "eight to 10" people annually are expected to pass the "very rigorous" psychological evaluation required before sex reassignment surgery, Health Minister George Smitherman said yesterday.

"It's a very serious medical condition that affects a very small number of people," he told reporters, noting that other provinces including Alberta pay for the surgery.

Smitherman acknowledged the coverage could be controversial in some circles, given the heavy demands on Ontario's health-care system from people with rare, life-threatening diseases, for example.

"I think that people should be careful not to use what is $200,000 on a $40.2 billion health budget as an excuse to try a bit of a `them and us' conversation," he said.

It was 10 years ago that the previous Progressive Conservative government declared the operations were no longer eligible under the taxpayer-funded Ontario Health Insurance Plan, which had covered the surgery since 1971.

That prompted complaints to the Ontario Human Rights Commission from transsexuals whose progression through the psychological evaluation to gender reassignment surgery was interrupted.

Two years ago, the commission ordered the government to compensate three patients who had begun the sex-change process.

Smitherman's announcement was welcomed by the transsexual community, but one group is hoping the criteria for gender reassignment surgery will be made "less rigorous" than the 1970s standards used before taxpayer funding for the operation was axed.

"A more sensitive model would be appropriate," said Susan Gapka of the Rainbow Health Network.

Gapka said it's hard to say how many people are awaiting the surgery.

"It's a hidden population ... there's a large community in Ontario and in Toronto and southern Ontario."

While details of the policy are still being worked out, Smitherman said patients will likely be sent to a clinic in Montreal that specializes in the surgery, which costs about $20,000.

The Liberals had promised to reinstate the coverage of sex change operations.

More details will be announced in a few weeks, Smitherman said.

The details were announced and i believe sex changes are now covered.


It's really funny (not) that my eyes arn't covered in ontario as an adult and yet some BS surgery is, WTF :evil: .


I agree that this is upsetting.

But you know, you have to think bottom line... Everyone has eyes, not everyone needs a sex change... /sarcasm :roll:
mr12387





Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 261
Reputation: 60.6
votes: 2
Location: Laval, Quebec

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might get a lot of slack for this but if itís a full sex change operation with the goal of making you as anatomically correct as possible to the opposite sex, yes. So long as these people pay into the same inefficient public healthcare system they should get this service out of it. When private healthcare becomes more easily accessible then Iíd be willing to change my position.

I have a friend whoís a transsexual and let me tell you she (who was born a he) is mentally 100% female. And everyone I talk to agrees. She has acted the same way from since people can remember (I know people who went to grade school with her).

Being a man, I have to say there is no way I would ever want to chop off my member. And I donít think any man would. I truly believe any man or woman who would be willing to mutilate or transform their genitals must have a pretty good reason for it. Itís not an easy life and far harder than simply being homosexual. I truly believe these peopleís anatomy does not match the mind they possess and that they live through hell until they are able to rectify it.
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr wrote
Quote:
I have a friend whoís a transsexual and let me tell you she (who was born a he) is mentally 100% female. And everyone I talk to agrees. She has acted the same way from since people can remember (I know people who went to grade school with her).


mr: I don't mean to be offencive but if a man thinks he's a woman how is that different than a human thinking that he/she is a dog. I would be willing to have ohip cover a mental rehiblitation for these people (no offence intended :oops: ).

I don't see why I should be paying for a surgery for a person who MAY be mentally unstable and therefore should not be getting life changeing surgerys.
mr12387





Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 261
Reputation: 60.6
votes: 2
Location: Laval, Quebec

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offence taken and Iím pleased to be able debate the issue with you. Iím not planning on changing anyoneís opinion, but I believe learning about a different perspective on an issue is always a good thing. Crazy Mamma has definitely made me reexamine my opinions on gun control.

Personally, I donít see how someone could be considered mentally unstable, when they have been stable mentally stable in every other aspect of their lives and has acted as a member of the opposite sex from an early age.

As for the difference with believing you are an animal. Letís take the example of the man who thinks heís a tiger (some of you might have seen him on Discovery or TLC). I can pretty much guarantee that his mother wasnít having an affair with the Bengal tiger in cage 4 at the local zoo nine months before he was born; meaning there is no chance he is any bit genetically a tiger.

With transsexuals, although it has not been proven 100% without a doubt, the chance of some genetic mutation or genetic condition has not been ruled out. Perhaps, and Iíll give you this much, such surgeries should only be covered once more scientific research is performed, but then again, I think it would be pretty cruel for people to be stuck as he/shes if theyíd be perfectly happy having changed sexes. If private health insurance could easily cover the surgery I see no need for OHIP to cover the cost.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This course of surgery is usually offered only to people who are diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder - not all self-identifying transexuals actually suffer from GID, but for those who do, this is often a more successful method of treatment than psychiatry (ie conversion therapy), which has very, very poor success rates.

IMO, the issue of whether or not this should be covered has little to do with social perceptions of the specific operation, and more to do with the ethics of state-run Medicare itself.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr12387 wrote:
No offence taken and Iím pleased to be able debate the issue with you. Iím not planning on changing anyoneís opinion, but I believe learning about a different perspective on an issue is always a good thing. Crazy Mamma has definitely made me reexamine my opinions on gun control.

Personally, I donít see how someone could be considered mentally unstable, when they have been stable mentally stable in every other aspect of their lives and has acted as a member of the opposite sex from an early age.

As for the difference with believing you are an animal. Letís take the example of the man who thinks heís a tiger (some of you might have seen him on Discovery or TLC). I can pretty much guarantee that his mother wasnít having an affair with the Bengal tiger in cage 4 at the local zoo nine months before he was born; meaning there is no chance he is any bit genetically a tiger.

With transsexuals, although it has not been proven 100% without a doubt, the chance of some genetic mutation or genetic condition has not been ruled out. Perhaps, and Iíll give you this much, such surgeries should only be covered once more scientific research is performed, but then again, I think it would be pretty cruel for people to be stuck as he/shes if theyíd be perfectly happy having changed sexes. If private health insurance could easily cover the surgery I see no need for OHIP to cover the cost.


I think of it more as a mental health issue than a need for a sex change. Why is it so small a sample of the population that this happens to? Itís not like they were born with female breasts and a penis. What make your friend any different from a ďsensitiveĒ male, or a homosexual? I would have to assume your friend is attracted to other guys, right?

The operation itsí self if horrendous, but if you really want to go for it fine, but use your own money. People who desperately believe they are a woman in a manís body, or a man in a womanís body should seek mental therapy first before they do through with this.

There are also horror stories of people who go through the hormone therapy, and sex change, then decided to change their minds. We run on a public system, there for it should be required that people with these problems should seek help from a psychiatric doctor.
mr12387





Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 261
Reputation: 60.6
votes: 2
Location: Laval, Quebec

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:

I think of it more as a mental health issue than a need for a sex change. Why is it so small a sample of the population that this happens to? Itís not like they were born with female breasts and a penis. What make your friend any different from a ďsensitiveĒ male, or a homosexual? I would have to assume your friend is attracted to other guys, right?


1. The small sample means nothing. There are proven genetic disorders where about 5 people in the entire world have a certain condition at one time. So I can't even form a proper rebuttal because I don't think it's a valid point.

2. "What make your friend any different from a ďsensitiveĒ male, or a homosexual?" Well that's my point. This friend does not want a penis despite having one, unlike a "sensitive" male or a "homosexual".

3. Homosexuality was considered a "mental illness" by the religious right once too. Now it's called a "choice". What changed things for homosexuality and whose to say the religious right won't flip flop on this too? (For whatever the motives may be)

And I am in no why trying to be confrontational.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was not just the religious right who said it was a mental illness; there have been talks about homosexuality as a mental illness for centuries, and not just by Christians.

As for not wanting a penis, your friend must have always felt this way. I bet you can share the time when he was five, and wanted his penis cut off, or since the time he was in kindergarten, wishing he were born a girl. Again, I also donít want to be confrontational, but people who have these tendencies also have other problems concerning mental health issues.

As for my first point of the small percentage of populations who go through with this surgery (well less than 1%), point is how many of those people have mental health problems, and emotional problems? I dare say all of them! Would that be reasonable?
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 1043
Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9
votes: 6

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:


As for my first point of the small percentage of populations who go through with this surgery (well less than 1%), point is how many of those people have mental health problems, and emotional problems? I dare say all of them! Would that be reasonable?


If only 8 or 10 people are going to pass the screaning test, out of all the gay people who appear to want to be femaile, I would say they are probably free of mental health problems.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiscalconservative wrote:
SFrank85 wrote:


As for my first point of the small percentage of populations who go through with this surgery (well less than 1%), point is how many of those people have mental health problems, and emotional problems? I dare say all of them! Would that be reasonable?


If only 8 or 10 people are going to pass the screaning test, out of all the gay people who appear to want to be femaile, I would say they are probably free of mental health problems.


If you are implying that I am saying that all gay people have a mental health issue that is not what I am saying. Those who go through with sex change operations do have some mental illness. The hormone replacement therapy alone is a horrendous experience, but to actually wanting to go through with the gruesome surgery to have your sex organs removed and reshaped, it is a very traumatic experience.
mr12387





Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 261
Reputation: 60.6
votes: 2
Location: Laval, Quebec

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iím aware the theories of homosexuality being a mental illness are not solitarily the product of Christians or people of faith for that matter. But it seems, time and time again, those who have faith in a specific religion and are not sure how to approach a certain issue because it appears to be taboo in terms of those religious beliefs are quick to rubber stamp things as ďXĒ before there are any definitive answers. I canít say that it isnít a mental illness, but Iím not rubber stamping as something else either.

As for my friendís other mental issues, Iím not aware of any, but I canít swear she doesnít. As for how many transsexuals have mental problems, itís a good question; I donít have stats do you??? And in the case they due tend to be greater than the rest of the world, is there not the possibility that the mental issues stem from having genitals ones mind does not relate with Ė as I see it, that would screw up the most sane of individuals.

In any case, Iím pretty sure homosexuals probably have more mental health issues than heterosexuals; as do any group dealing with societal and physiological pressures that your Ďaverage Joeí does not have to deal with on a day-to-day basis.

I guess the question here is which came first, the chicken or the egg.

And, you're right the whole process is traumatic. All the more reason anyone who would go through with it must be pretty darn sure they don't want the gender they were born with.
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr12387 wrote:
I have a friend whoís a transsexual and let me tell you she (who was born a he) is mentally 100% female. And everyone I talk to agrees. She has acted the same way from since people can remember (I know people who went to grade school with her).


Doesn't matter. It is an elective procedure just like an abortion and should be paid for out of pocket.

Quote:
Being a man, I have to say there is no way I would ever want to chop off my member. And I donít think any man would. I truly believe any man or woman who would be willing to mutilate or transform their genitals must have a pretty good reason for it.


Then they should pay for it themselves. The public system is for medically necessary procedures.
mr12387





Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 261
Reputation: 60.6
votes: 2
Location: Laval, Quebec

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I respect your opinion Craig.

On a lighter note, considering your infamous attachments have been all the rage in the Wikipedia thread, do you have any trashy pictures of transsexuals you'd like to post? :wink:
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr12387 wrote:
I respect your opinion Craig.

On a lighter note, considering your infamous attachments have been all the rage in the Wikipedia thread, do you have any trashy pictures of transsexuals you'd like to post? :wink:


LOL!!! :lol:

Nothing like a few pictures of transsexuals to lighten up the Christmas season! :?
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ohip covers what!!!

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