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DM Schwartz





Joined: 08 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:40 am    Post subject: Religion - The Root of All Evil? Reply with quote

I read a few blogs yesterday about a show on the CBC called "The Big Picture". So I thought I would watch to see what it was about.

Last nights topic was a documentary asking the question Is religion the root of all Evil?

As a conservative atheist, I find this topic interesting. I found in exploring his premise, Dawkins didn't show that religion is the root of all evil, but people are the root of all evil. He did show that when perverted, religion can be used as political fodder to do evil.

I also fealt that the discussion that followed the show was very thought provoking. Some of the responses from the audience were both enlightened and frightening for some. There were a few guests that simply used dogma and a smile and claimed freedom of speech to make their point, but the moderator called them on their statements.

It showed that more moderate views are required to have an honest debate.

Did anyone else see the show? I would like to hear what you think.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As was so eloquently stated by that very wise man, the love of money is the true root of all evil. People like to talk about religion caused this or that, but it was people, just like you and me, who decided to start that genocide or whatever. god does not make the world a cold, heartless, violent and brutal place; we do.
McGuire





Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was surprised it wasn't the one-sided religion bashing we've come to expect from the left, but rather a fair debate where everyone was given a chance to express their views fairly & also were held accountable fairly. I'm not much for religion, but I have no stomach for the kinda anti-religion BS spewed from the left.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that maybe some on the left are getting it. Madonna decsends on a cross, there is no violence from Christians. Cartoons are published, and there are riots and widespread violence from Muslims. My point is that maybe people are seeing that it is not religion, but the people who commit evil.
canden





Joined: 11 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: 20th Century Mass Murders Were Atheists. Reply with quote

:arrow: NOTE- The mass murders of the last century were atheists such as: Pol Pot,Stalin,Moa and Hitler. Hitler detested Christians also he denounced Christianity as a invention of the Jew. We no what Hitler did unfortunately to millions of Jews. CBC is too unballanced too many lefty-liberals there. CBC says it believes in equality if so than more conservative minded Canadians should be hired there, to even the nonequality at CBC in this area. Plus for fairness and the betterment to inform Canadian citizens. Also religions are not the same, their's a big difference between Muslium and Christianity. Fact is Christianity as done much good for and within Canada, plus is part of true Canadiana. CBC seemingly here been tricky attempting to slash religions. Also their are many other atheists mass murders historically and of recent times too. Will CBC do a segment on Atheists destructions-don't count on it.
biggie





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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 20th Century Mass Murders Were Atheists. Reply with quote

canden wrote:
:arrow: NOTE- The mass murders of the last century were atheists such as: Pol Pot,Stalin,Moa and Hitler. Hitler detested Christians also he denounced Christianity as a invention of the Jew. We no what Hitler did unfortunately to millions of Jews. CBC is too unballanced too many lefty-liberals there. CBC says it believes in equality if so than more conservative minded Canadians should be hired there, to even the nonequality at CBC in this area. Plus for fairness and the betterment to inform Canadian citizens. Also religions are not the same, their's a big difference between Muslium and Christianity. Fact is Christianity as done much good for and within Canada, plus is part of true Canadiana. CBC seemingly here been tricky attempting to slash religions. Also their are many other atheists mass murders historically and of recent times too. Will CBC do a segment on Atheists destructions-don't count on it.


The definition of Athiest is broad... for example, I am an agnostic, but many would claim I am Athiest. So to say that someone who is athiest is somehow different than anyone religious would be ridiculous.

The question is not is religion the root of all evil - it is not. The real question is How do we put an end to religion being used as a propoganda tool for violence?

There is no doubt that throughout history religion has been used to advocate violence. However, there is also no doubt that secular leaders have done the same with other things. The key to this issue is eliminating radicalism - or insanely devout sects. These can be found in all religions. To lay blame on either side simply wastes words and time. Religions who rely on blaming other religions for their immature and inapropriate behaviour are simply demonstrating their impotence in stopping radical transformation.

The topic can be summed up by some simple questions/answers.

Will eliminating religion end war? NO

Will assimilating to one religion(islam, christianity, budhism, judaism, hinduism, Jehova Witness etc..) end war? NO

Will participants in todays "religious" battles stop fighting if their religious leaders tell them to? NO

Religion has been a tool of war, but most certainly not a cause. No more than discontent at the allies was a cause of world war 2 - It was Hitler's dream of power, he just fostered discontent over the outcome of WW1 to get it.

I see the only solution to the problem is grassroots religious movements. Religions need to engage their followers, and educate them on the true way of their faith - not some dreamed up perversion.

When the major leaders of Islam can step up to the plate and speak against the Jihadists, and they do so with sincerity - we will be much closer to peace.
canden





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:08 am    Post subject: Offical Christian Teachings Are Good. Reply with quote

:arrow: Official Christian teachings in context are good. It's some people who use a good religion wrongly.
jw





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People who use ideas violently cause war and much suffering. Those ideas can be religious, they can be secular. It is the ideas used violently that is the problem, not religion.
Craig
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geography has been the source of more wars than religion. Money has been the source of more wars than religion. Humans will find any excuse to fight.

BTW: It is extremely arrogrant to call one self an atheist. You can't explain existance but you dismiss the notion of a greater being without basis (presumably to garner attention for yourself - to be a rebel).
Craig
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jw wrote:
People who use ideas violently cause war and much suffering. Those ideas can be religious, they can be secular. It is the ideas used violently that is the problem, not religion.


War (like disease) is an important form of evolutionary pressure and population control. Life is cruel.
Craig
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 20th Century Mass Murders Were Atheists. Reply with quote

biggie rection wrote:
The definition of Athiest is broad... for example, I am an agnostic, but many would claim I am Athiest. So to say that someone who is athiest is somehow different than anyone religious would be ridiculous.


This is a very true statement. We fight for our "group". Whatever characteristics constitute that group. A group of atheists is just as dangerous as a group of Christians.
jw





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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
War (like disease) is an important form of evolutionary pressure and population control. Life is cruel.


How very Buddhist! Almost a direct transcription of the second Dharma.

I suppose from one point of view you are right ... Yet, the fact that war can be useful in some ways does not explain war.

More often than not, wars arise from political pressure, which itself arises from ideas. I don't like the blaming wars on religion because it is a partial answer, blaming the whole on the part and not even the biggest part. Partial answers are always dangerous and insidious.
Bleatmop





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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to play Devil's advocate (pun intended), I'm going to raise the question of what is evil? Is there some universal truth as to what Evil is? Is human sacrifice to a god evil? I'm willing to bet those who are doing the sacrificing don't consider themselves evil. I also know that the those Jhadists like Bin Ladin et al. consider us to be the evil ones, just as we consider them evil. Does the word even have meaning anymore when there is no universal truth to what evil is?

Seriously though, I think avarice, want, despair and hunger are some of roots of evil. Not that these things in themselves are evil (just tragic). But it is in these things that evil breeds and is born. Things like racism and religion are just tools that evil people use to meet their ends.

Oh, and just to respond to canden, I'm pretty sure those mass murders who flew some planes into the World Trade Towers, or blew up people in England and Spain were not atheists. They most definitively were theists. Also, Hitler was not an athiest.
biggie





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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about this -

Put a pork chop between two hounds, and see what happens...

Now put 10 Mil. between two humans...

I highly doubt the outcome will be much different.
jw





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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for evil ... The writer/psychiatrist M. Scott Peck M.D. made a very good attempt at defining it in his book "People of the Lie." This book is very much worth the read.

Given you put 10 million dollars between two people, the odds are high that they will split it. People are not dogs. We behave in patterns which while complex, are usually definable. While the dogs will split the food between then according to dominance, people will split the money according to their learned social structure.
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Religion - The Root of All Evil?

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