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concerned





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:28 pm    Post subject: The Global Warming Debate Should be Over Reply with quote

Here are some excellent statements made by scinetists against man-made global warming.

However, I'm sure that they don't know as much about climate change as Liz May.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/i.....4616db87e6
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe it was the great kwlafayette who defined Global Warming best by calling it "A Religion"

Global Warming is about faith mixed with some science.

At the end of the day,
Is an An Inconvenient Truth 100% correct?
Is The Great Global Warming Swindle 100% correct?

Both have A LOT of science to back up their points, and both have data that has since been proven incorrect,

But its not about fact, its about faith. The Liz May camp feels they are right, and will be zealots if they need to be regardless of what information is available to disprove what they are saying.

As a great man once said,
There are three sides to every story,
Yours, Theirs, and The Truth

I suspect reality lays somewhere aside from both extremes.
Hasdrubal





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to be mean but here in the east we have had a lot of very warm days as of late. So far the weather has crippled the winter industry, on days that we should be about +2 or +3 we are seeing 16,17, & 18 degree days. And for the past five years living with a historic percentage of 75% of a white christmas it sure has been live one out five years of it actually being white.

SO PLEASE WITH ALL THE COLD AIR AS OF LATE IN THE WEST PLEASE SHIP IT HERE! :wink:
Sean McAllister





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to throw in my 2 cents here. If it is science, then there is only 1 explanation. Period. The problem is it is NOT science. They are using climate models "projecting possible outcomes". That, in layman's terms, is GUESSING! They are using scientific tools to try and predict how the planet is going to react to possible levels of this or that that may or may not be at some time in the future, possibly. Give me a break. And the leafs will win the Stanley cup this year.
JDot





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerned said....

Quote:
global warming.


I could only get to this point in your post before I started to shake my head... :?

I have to say it is not called Global Warming anymore. it's called Climate Change.... 8)

Concerned...

"Globing Warming" "Climate change", are just code words for... "easy grants"..... :wink:
concerned





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDot wrote:
Concerned said....

Quote:
global warming.


I could only get to this point in your post before I started to shake my head... :?

I have to say it is not called Global Warming anymore. it's called Climate Change.... 8)

Concerned...

"Globing Warming" "Climate change", are just code words for... "easy grants"..... :wink:


Whatever you want.
JDot





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

concerned wrote:
JDot wrote:
Concerned said....

Quote:
global warming.


I could only get to this point in your post before I started to shake my head... :?

I have to say it is not called Global Warming anymore. it's called Climate Change.... 8)

Concerned...

"Globing Warming" "Climate change", are just code words for... "easy grants"..... :wink:


Whatever you want.


Concerned....

All I am saying is that there will always be a easy "grant" for scientist.....
eveable





Joined: 03 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You all do know that this whole Global Warming thing is about global governance and taxes...lets just call it what it is Global Socialism.

I could never understand why the media jumped on it until I realized that MSNBC is owned by GE who sells geothermal equipment, etc.
There is always a money trail.

If we look at the temperature history that we know of, we had a Roman Warm Period, a time of wealth and population increase followed by the dark ages, a time of poverty and decrease in the population. Then the Medieval Warm Period, another time of increasing population and prospertity followed by the little ice age, more decreasing population and sickness and poverty. Now we are in the modern warm period, another time of prosperity and increasing population. But these guys say this is wrong??? Excuse me? The planet managed to hit a high of 58.3 in 1998 and the temperature has been decreasing since. We never got to the highs of the Medieval Warm Period (62 F) and the Roman Warm period was warmer still. And they are saying the planet is too hot and we all have to go without fossil fuels to cool it down??? And do what? Burn wood?

The planet is now under a global temperature of 57 F. We crept out of the little ice age at around 56 F. What more do they want? We are below the temperatures that were predicted if Kyoto was followed and they are still going on about it.

We do know why. It has nothing to do with temperature.
eveable





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And guy in Halifax, no rubbing it in. It has been snowing since the beginning of November and it will not stop. It did the same last year. White Christmas?? For sure. Getting outside for Christmas, Doubtfull.
eveable





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew somebody would smarten up.

Cooling on Global Warming Germany and the rest of Europe are getting more rational on climate change.
By BENNY PEISER | From today's Wall Street Journal Europe
Participants at last week's United Nations climate conference in Poznan, Poland, were taken aback by a world seemingly turned upside-down. The traditional villains and heroes of the international climate narrative, the wicked U.S. and the noble European Union, had unexpectedly swapped roles. For once, it was the EU that was criticized for backpedalling on its CO2 targets while Europe's climate nemesis, the U.S., found itself commended for electing an environmental champion as president.

The wrangle over the EU's controversial climate package at a separate summit in Brussels wrong-footed the world's green bureaucracy. The EU climate deal was diluted beyond recognition. Instead of standing by plans to cut CO2 emissions by 20% below 1990 levels by 2020, the actual reductions might be as trivial as 4% if all exemptions are factored in.

The Brussels summit symbolizes a turning point. The watered-down climate deal epitomizes the onset of a cooling period in Europe's hitherto overheated climate debate. It may lead eventually to the complete abandonment of the unilateral climate agenda that has shaped Europe's green philosophy for nearly 20 years.

The reasons for the changing political atmosphere in Europe are manifold. First, the global economic crisis has demoted green policies nearer to the bottom of the political agenda. Saving the economy and creating jobs take priority now.

Second, disillusionment with the failed Kyoto Protocol has turned utopian thinking into sobriety. After all, most of the Kyoto signatories failed to reduce their CO2 emissions during the last 10 years. There are also growing doubts about the long-term viability of the EU's Emissions Trading Scheme. The price of carbon credits has collapsed as a result of the financial crisis. The drop in demand and the recession are likely to depress carbon prices for years to come. As a result, the effectiveness of the extremely volatile scheme is increasingly questioned.

Third, a number of countries have experienced a political backlash over their renewable energy schemes. Tens of billions of euros of taxpayers' money have been pumped into projects that depend on endless government handouts. Each of the 35,000 solar jobs in Germany, for instance, is subsidized to the tune of €130,000. According to estimates by the Rhine-Westphalia Institute for Economic Research, green subsidies will cost German electricity consumers nearly €27 billion in the next two years.

Perhaps even more important is the growing realization that the warming trend of the late 20th century has, for the last 10 years or so, essentially come to a temporary halt. The data collected by international meteorological offices confirm this. This most peculiar fact is rarely mentioned in policy debates, but it certainly provides decision makers with a vital respite to reconsider their climate policy options.

Above all, Europe's politicians have recognized that green taxes have turned into liabilities that may undermine economic stability and their chances of re-election. As German radio Deutsche Welle put it last week: "With the recession tightening its grip on the German economy, [Chancellor Angela] Merkel is betting that job reassurance is more important to the average worker than being a pioneer in tackling climate change."

Nowhere has the fundamental change of the political landscape been more pronounced and less expected than in Germany. For more than 20 years, Europe's economic powerhouse has been the major bastion of green politics.

In the 1990s, Angela Merkel steered and implemented Europe's Kyoto policy as Germany's first environment minister. Now serving as chancellor, she was hailed as Europe's climate savior after playing host to last year's G-8 summit in Heiligendamm. Only 18 months later, however, she no longer wears a halo. As a result of a concerted campaign by Germany's heavy industry, as well as growing opposition from within her Christian Democratic party, Mrs. Merkel has been forced to abandon her green principles and image.

The deepening economic crisis seems to transform the mood of the German public. Next year's general election looms large, and voters right now are worried about the economy and jobs, and not green issues. In early December, more than 10,000 angry metal workers and trade unionists -- most of them from Germany -- protested outside the European Parliament in Brussels against the EU's climate policy, which they fear will increase unemployment.

For many international observers, the ease with which Mrs. Merkel overturned her celebrated climate policy has come as a shock. But she was almost the last member of her Christian Democratic party willing to accept that a change in strategy was necessary given the immense costs of the EU's original climate plans. In fact, her party demanded that Mrs. Merkel veto the climate package if German industry did not receive an exemption from the Emissions Trading Scheme's auctioning of carbon credits. The exemption was duly granted.

Perhaps the most critical factor for Mrs. Merkel's almost unchallenged about-face is the vanishing strength of the Social Democratic Party, whose members were once among the most forceful climate alarmists. Mrs. Merkel's junior coalition partner has lost much of its support in recent years. And amid growing fears of a deepening recession, there are also signs of a split within the party on climate and energy issues.

At the forefront of the left-wing opposition to the EU's climate policy has been EU Industry Commissioner Günter Verheugen. The German Social Democrat has been arguing throughout the year that the climate targets should only be accepted if "truly cost-effective solutions" could be found. Other prominent dissenters in his party include Hubertus Schmoldt, the head of the mining, chemical and energy industrial union, who has recently called for a two-year postponement of the climate package.

In part as a result of German -- as well as Italian and Polish -- objections, Europe's climate package did not survive in its original form. The inclusion of a revision clause, pushed by Italy, is particularly significant as it makes the EU's climate targets conditional on the outcome of international climate talks. If the U.N.'s Copenhagen conference in 2009 fails to seal a post-Kyoto deal, it is as good as certain that some of the EU's targets will be further cut. By linking its decisions to those of the rest of the world, Europe has begun to act as a more rational player on the stage of international climate diplomacy.

Instead of yielding to the siren calls of climate alarmists, European governments would be well advised to focus their attention on developing pragmatic policies capable of safeguarding their industries, labor forces and environment at the same time.
nathaliejcaron





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing.
Mac





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Notice how much we've heard from David Suzuki and The Goreacle lately? Curious...

-Mac
John Larocque





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's some great stuff on the current president of the Czech republic, who is a Euroskeptic and anti-treaty of Lisbon, and said he was treated like a leader of Soviet puppet state for his vocal support of the climate change dissenters. You'll have to search out the links, but they were colourful exchanges with the new Green Soviets of the EU (and in particular... the French).

--

"I spent most of my life under the communist regime which ignored and brutally violated human freedom," he told the National Press Club in May. "In the past, [this was done] in the name of the Marxist or the proletariat. This time, in the name of the planet ... It is very similar."
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I try to talk to my brother in-law about this issue and he looks at me like I'm a holocaust denier. I guess on my death bed I'll say "TOLD YOU SO"
eveable





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that anyone can believe this is beyond belief. It means they haven't thought it through. It also means they have no understanding of climate.
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The Global Warming Debate Should be Over

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