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Canuckstubby67





Joined: 31 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:33 pm    Post subject: What is a red tory and a blue tory? Reply with quote

I know that red tories are tories who are to the left of the political spectrum in terms of social policy and fiscally in the middle, but wouldn't that make them indistinguishable liberals or even dippers?

I know Joe Clark was definitely a red tory, as he is now a supporter for the LPC, while Mulroney and Harper is in a grey zone, but Im disappointed to see Harper leading our party to the left recently.
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Tory - Harper
Red Tory - John Tory
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper has moved the party to the centre, not the left. This Conservative government will not move out of the centre until they get a majority. It is hard enough trying to govern to the right in this country. Mulroney’s government in it’s early days moved to the right, and there was a lot of negativity towards that, and the media reported negatively on it, and the left staged protests (remember the “Charlie Brown” incident?), so Mulroney had to move his party to the centre.
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
Blue Tory - Harper
Red Tory - John Tory


Correction...

Red Tory - Harper
Communist - John Tory
BlondeConservative





Joined: 10 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Tory- someone who says too much
Blue Tory- someone who holds their breath and says too little
:D
Hasdrubal





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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Tory - a Liberal considered a Conservative due to the modern political progression towards the left

Blue Tory - a hard core conservative according to the media or so they are made out as extremist even though it's not true. A blue tory is also believes in traditionalist policies including maintaining the monarchy.

But then there is:

Republican - same as blue tory except they are more open to an American form governement & has a loyality towards the Republic of Canada concept & sometimes even a supporter of annexation.
Libertas





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I know Joe Clark was definitely a red tory, as he is now a supporter for the LPC, while Mulroney and Harper is in a grey zone, but Im disappointed to see Harper leading our party to the left recently.


I knew Joe Clark had supported Martin in 2004, but I haven't heard anything from him in the past couple of years.

By the way, the definitions have largely been bastardized to the point where they're meaningless.

Red Tory - Monarchist, socially conservative, economic nationalist.
Blue Tory - Monarchist/Republican, socially libertarian/moderate, free trader.

That's how I tend to define them. But I'd also argue it's pointless to put conservatism with all it's different ideologies into two arbitrary groups. You'll always have your libertarians, reformers, neoconservatives, classical liberals, decentralists, etc.
905 Tory





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is how I see it:

Red Tory: fiscally and socially moderate or slightly centre-right (meaning mostly conservative in name).
Blue Tory: fiscally conservative and socially moderate or libertarian
Reformer: Fiscally libertarian and socially religious. Also a trace of paleo-conservatism

I see myself as a Blue Tory. I believe in government not interfering with the private sector much (like buying GM, which the Three Stooges Harper, McGuinty, and Obama have done). However, I don't see much use for government in the private life of individuals--not much problem with legalization of marijuana and feel there is no legitimate argue against legalization of gay marriage.
teenagetory





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think we should throw in the adq type in there to

Red Tory: Fiscally: ever so slightly to the right of centre, with a hint of protectionism, socially: moderate, mostly from urban areas or atlantic canada

Blue Tory: Fiscally Conservative, Socially: moderate to conservative, mostly from non GTA ontario

Reformer: Fiscally: conservative, socially: conservative, from the west mainly

La Quebecoise Bleue: Fiscally: Conservative, socially: kinda liberal?, also a quebec nationalist or sovreigntist

throw in some libertarians and you have your modern day conservative party
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where does this put religious people who are fiscally Conservative and pissed at all the wasteful social programs, but want to put more efficient programs in place to get people off welfare, assimilate immigrants and help natives.

On the Idea thread I have people calling me a Red Tory. I don't feel like one.

I always thought a red Tory was another name for Liberal.
Libertas





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you're a one nation conservative?

The problem with labels is they become bastardized over time. It's like how whenever a person has a disagreement with another person they give them an arbitrary label like CINO, RINO, socialist, etc. Even if the label isn't appropriate.
Mac





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought the red versus blue was the position on spending taxes... red was fiscally liberal, blue was fiscally conservative... whereas the Tory is a reference to the British political party which evolved into the Conservatives (over there) who were (and are) supporters of traditional political and social institutions.

-Mac
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
red was fiscally liberal, blue was fiscally conservative


What are the differences.

I would think our CPC government would be fiscally conservative, yet they spend money hand over fist abett on projects most small c cons would approve of. They also try to find efficiencies in goverment spending.

Is it what the money is spent on that makes a person a Red or blue tory or is it just spending more money that makes aperson a Red Tory?
fiscalconservative





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: What is a red tory and a blue tory? Reply with quote

Canuckstubby67 wrote:
I know that red tories are tories who are to the left of the political spectrum in terms of social policy and fiscally in the middle, but wouldn't that make them indistinguishable liberals or even dippers?

I know Joe Clark was definitely a red tory, as he is now a supporter for the LPC, while Mulroney and Harper is in a grey zone, but Im disappointed to see Harper leading our party to the left recently.


I don't think you can put people into neat little catagories like this. There are socially conservative Liberals (the "god caucus") while there are social conservatives who are not fiscal conservatives. There are people like Garth Turner who sounds like a Green when talking about the environment, but a hard core fiscal conservative when talking about the debt.

The only real way you can define it would be to assign a score to certain beliefs. If you meet 7 or 8, you are a red tory, 9 or 10 you are blue. 4-6 makes you a Liberal. Anything lower, you get into socialism.

That way, Garth would come out as a Red Tory.
Mac





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Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
What are the differences.

I would think our CPC government would be fiscally conservative, yet they spend money hand over fist abett on projects most small c cons would approve of. They also try to find efficiencies in goverment spending.

Is it what the money is spent on that makes a person a Red or blue tory or is it just spending more money that makes aperson a Red Tory?

I'm only relating my opinions and it's obvious there's more than a few different opinions of what makes the difference between a Red Tory and a Blue Tory....

Perhaps the point isn't where the money is spent as opposed to whether it's spent at all. Finding efficiencies and simply spends those savings elsewhere doesn't really improve the plight of the tax slaves, does it?

-Mac
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