Home FAQ Search Memberlist User Groups Register Login   

BloggingTories.ca Forum IndexBloggingTories.ca Forum Index
    Index     FAQ     Search     Register     Login         JOIN THE DISCUSSION - CLICK HERE      

*NEW* Login or register using your Facebook account.

Not a member? Join the fastest growing conservative community!
Membership is free and takes 15 seconds


CLICK HERE or use Facebook to login or register ----> Connect



Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next  

Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 2 of 3
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
Perhaps the point isn't where the money is spent as opposed to whether it's spent at all. Finding efficiencies and simply spends those savings elsewhere doesn't really improve the plight of the tax slaves, does it?

I think this is a point worthy of consideration, and good rule of thumb. To take it further, I would suggest that Red vs Blue Toryism is about differences the role of government -

IMO, both will desire sound financial management in government, but the Red Tory will desire it in service of social programs, 'conservative' social engineering, in addition to public institutions like the courts, military, and police. They believe in a conservative management of the private economy, in order to reap rewards for the 'greater good'. They tend to be more interventionist in the economy, sympathetic to protectionism, and more supportive of crown corporations and government regulatory bodies. Noblesse oblige is an important philosophical component.

Blue conservatives, on the other hand, view fiscal discipline as a means of controlling the size of government. They tend to see government more as an unfortunate necessity rather than a force for good, and would like to restrict government spending to truly public infrastructure, and institutions like the justice system, police, and military. They believe that the social good is best served by competition among charities for the dollars and volunteer hours of private citizens. They prefer minimalist and macro level regulation of the economy rather than activist management, support free trade, and privatization where possible. The government exists mainly as a system to protect individuals as they create the culture and private economy through voluntary actions and associations.

Social conservatism (or lack thereof) doesn't really enter into my definitions. I do apologize if I offended in the other thread, mrsocko.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A red tory is someone who think a Joe Clark can win. A blue tory knows that he can't.
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 7431
Reputation: 297.2
votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
A red tory is someone who think a Joe Clark can win. A blue tory knows that he can't.


That is dictionary worthy.
Duck Tory





Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 826
Reputation: 40.3Reputation: 40.3Reputation: 40.3Reputation: 40.3
votes: 4

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess this makes me a Republican Tory.
chrisreid





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 182
Reputation: 64.1
votes: 5
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can tell who a Red Tory is...they venamently hate the Liberal Party with a passion, but can never articulate what policies they disagree with. Their argument is simply "we can run government better than them" and "we will keep our promises!".

If you want to look at Red Toryism - check out the Progressive Canadian party.

To the person that said Harper moved the Conservative party to the "centre" - the "centre" is a meaningless phrase because it's relative to whos speaking.
The Liberals just use it as a phrase in a means to cast any other party as "extremists".
To anyone that reads up on political theory, and history, would see the Liberal party and the establishment in the country are not "centrists" in any historical context. They are definitely extreme left - supporting fiat currency, corporatism, unionism, government run education, and government controlled health care are not moderate positions, those are extreme intrusions into people's personal lives.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you still in Auzzieland, Chris? Didn't they just elect a leftard federal govt?

-Mac
TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 796
Reputation: 50.5
votes: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I consider myself a Purple Tory.

Fiscally Conservative as a Blue Tory
Socially Conservative as a Blue Tory with a few EXCEPTIONS (leaning me into the "purple")
And there's one european party that I also would like to see in Canada.

No I won't elaborate or there will be arguments here. I respect the views of others but I'm not in the mood for debates at the moment.
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 1043
Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9
votes: 6

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


Social conservatism (or lack thereof) doesn't really enter into my definitions. I do apologize if I offended in the other thread, mrsocko.


I think social conservatism belongs on a different spectrum. In the west, social conservatives tend to vote for the fiscally conservative parties more often than not.

However, iIf you look around the world and over time though, this is not always the case. Some communist governments have been rather socially conservative. In Iran, the ruling party is left of the opposition on fiscal matters yet is more socially conservative.

I don't see a natural connection between someones views of taxes with someones views on gay marriage.
Libertas





Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 358
Reputation: 14.6
votes: 6
Location: Medicine Hat, AB

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole left/right spectrum is bullshit.

If you want a decent idea of where a person stands when it comes to their ideological principles you should think of it as more of a square or diamond. Libertarianism vs Authoritarianism, Socialism vs Capitalism.

http://www.moral-politics.com/.....logies.All
DavidK





Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1520
Reputation: 68.5
votes: 5
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Libertas wrote:
The whole left/right spectrum is bullshit.

If you want a decent idea of where a person stands when it comes to their ideological principles you should think of it as more of a square or diamond. Libertarianism vs Authoritarianism, Socialism vs Capitalism.

http://www.moral-politics.com/.....logies.All


Your scored 7 on Moral Order and -2 on Moral Rules.



The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):

System: Conservatism
Ideology: PaleoConservatism, Fundamentalism
Party: Republican Party
Presidents: George W. Bush, George H. Bush
04' Election: George W. Bush
08' Election: John McCain

Hmmm - Interesting.

I look at it this way:

I am against same sex unions being called marriage Ė I believe as a traditionalist and a Christian in one man and one woman idea

I am against abortions, unless the mother is at risk of death or serious injury

I believe in the individualís right to defend themselves and their family, and believe in individual property rights

I believe in a personís right to free speech

I am for a strong national military

I support the rule of law

I believe in less government

I support the British Monarchy as part of Canada

I think that the state should provide welfare/healthcare to those unable to provide for themselves and those that can rise above it should be encouraged to do so. As a person with a physical disability, I have depended and do depend on some forms of welfare.
Those that need it should have access. Those that leach off it shouldnít be allowed to.

I think that higher education should be free for everyone should they choose to go for it, with some form of payment back to the government afterwards. Be it monetary, national service Ė I donít care.

I donít know if Iím Red per se or if Iím more Blue. Iíd like to think blue, but I have no idea really. Can someone tell me their opinion?
chrisreid





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 182
Reputation: 64.1
votes: 5
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
Are you still in Auzzieland, Chris? Didn't they just elect a leftard federal govt?

-Mac


Yup still in Oz. Just heading into the winter season, it's a fridged 12C! :-)

Off to a "New members night" on June 23rd to meet Liberal Party state senators and state legistators and a tour of the state parliament house. Can't wait!
Simeon Drakich





Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 6
Reputation: 7.2Reputation: 7.2Reputation: 7.2Reputation: 7.2Reputation: 7.2Reputation: 7.2Reputation: 7.2

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christine Elliott - Red Tory
Frank Klees - Purple Tory - mixture of red and blue
Tim Hudak - Medium Blue
Randy Hillier - Midnight Blue
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A red tory is someone who wants my vote and my absolute and total silence. I consider them jerks of the highest order.

If they want my silence, then someone else can have my vote. Screw all red tories, and their lack of stand taking and principles that can always be sacrificed for votes.

Apparently it is the Wednesday of rage.

PS. It would most definitely not be worse with a Liberal/NDPer/Green in charge. They never lied to me about what they stood for.


Last edited by kwlafayette on Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisreid wrote:
Mac wrote:
Are you still in Auzzieland, Chris? Didn't they just elect a leftard federal govt?

-Mac


Yup still in Oz. Just heading into the winter season, it's a fridged 12C! :-)

Off to a "New members night" on June 23rd to meet Liberal Party state senators and state legistators and a tour of the state parliament house. Can't wait!


It is 12 in Saskatoon this morning too. There have been frost warnings every day of June so far.
Libertas





Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 358
Reputation: 14.6
votes: 6
Location: Medicine Hat, AB

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should make a differentiation between "red tories" and centrists. The reality is that there are very few red tories in Canada, the term has been bastardized to the point that it simply means a member of the Conservative/Progressive Conservative Party with a centrist political outlook.
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 2 of 3

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next  


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


What is a red tory and a blue tory?

phpBBCopyright 2001, 2005 phpBB