Home FAQ Search Memberlist User Groups Register Login   

BloggingTories.ca Forum IndexBloggingTories.ca Forum Index
    Index     FAQ     Search     Register     Login         JOIN THE DISCUSSION - CLICK HERE      

*NEW* Login or register using your Facebook account.

Not a member? Join the fastest growing conservative community!
Membership is free and takes 15 seconds


CLICK HERE or use Facebook to login or register ----> Connect



Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next  

Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 3
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:19 pm    Post subject: Feeling Apathetic Towards Harper Gov't? Reply with quote

Lately I've been feeling rather apathetic when it comes to politics. I'm even considering stepping down from my local EDA board where I've served for many years.

I just really don't care much anymore.

In all honesty, even the thought of the Libs getting back in power doesn't motivate me anymore. Don't get me wrong, I don't want them to get back in; I think the CP makes a much better government however I wouldn't consider it the end of the world if the Libs did.

Here are some of the reasons why I think I feel this way:

1) Uninspiring Campaign
The last election didn't really get me fired up. I really felt underwhelmed by what Harper was proposing and I was more motivated by stopping the carbon tax than wanting the CP re-elected.

2) Not Enacting Policies From 2005 Convention
For a while now I've been bothered by the fact very few of the policies voted on by members have been enacted by the CP government. What is the point of policy development of the party ignores them? A lot of people worked hard and gave up a lot of their time to develop them.

3) Ryan Sparrow comments on policies from 2008 convention

Sparrow's comments confirms my issue above. He said that the CP government has no intention of adopting the policies and the whole policy development process is just to listen to "stakeholders". Again, a lot of people worked hard on these policies and genuinely believed that their efforts would matter. I find these comments rather insulting and I'm worried about the state of the grassroots and if the CP is turning into a federal version of the Ontario PCs.

4) 2008 convention policy changes from "a CP government will" to "a CP government will consider"
Further proof IMO, of the CP moving away from the grassroots

5) Uninspiring Governance

They haven't been bad, but they haven't been great either. If I had to grade them I'd give them a B- meaning "acceptable".

We need something bold. I thought the EU-Canada trade agreement issue would do the job, but they've downplayed that. Getting the provinces onside to grow the economy by doing things like harmonizing sales taxes, drop trade barriers or a single market regulator would have motivated me too, but instead these all seem to be going nowhere as well.

What is the plan? Hopefully the throne speech will change things.

6) Comments on Possible Deficit

Seriously, WTF?

Stuff like this makes me think, "how is this better than the Liberals?".

7) Chretien Liberal Era Almost Gone

Most of the Libs that I really disliked from the Chretien-Martin era are gone. The next leadership race will put the nail in it (though if Rae wins it may linger a while longer).

Iggy - heck, he'd probably feel at home in the CP
Rae - I don't hate the guy but I definetly don't want him as PM after what he did to Ontario (best pick for CP)
Leblanc - who? (exactly)

In the next election, except if they pick Rae, the Libs will probably have shaken off all the Chretien-Martin baggage.


Anybody else feeling unmotivated?

If other long-term party supporters like me feel this way, this might be a sign of trouble up ahead for the CP.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're not alone. The last election was about as bland as one can get and still call it an election. There was more policy announced after the election than during it!

How about throwing fiscal Conservatives a bone or two dozen? Use the economic downturn as the opening to wholesale change!! Kill a few Trudeau-topia legacy programs. Sell off the CBC. Dump the longarm registry. Defund SWC. Restart the term limits legislation for Senators and get 'er done! Stomp on the GG's "frequent flier" program to France and let her fly commercial on her own dime.

-Mac
Blue Meanie





Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 329
Reputation: 54.7
votes: 3
Location: B.C.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed! If they don't start paying attention to real conservative principles of the base, they're in for a rude awakening at the next election. I understand the theory of "incrementalism" that's supposedly underlying their electoral strategy to gain a majority. But the "increments" are supposed to be to the right, not the left.
DixieCanuck





Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 77
Reputation: 17.1Reputation: 17.1
votes: 1
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:05 am    Post subject: Re: Feeling Apathetic Towards Harper Gov't? Reply with quote

I feel apathetic towards Harper but not politics in general. I've veered towards the Libertarians since I felt it's now the party that best represents what I believe in but I am open to consider any party that can do that better. I don't care how small the party is, it's what they stand for that matters to me. I've supported Harper on every ballot that I came across, general and party elections both but I just can't do it anymore.
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 539
Reputation: 93.9Reputation: 93.9
votes: 3
Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could anybody tell me what the differences are between Iggy and today's CPC? Not a lot as far as I can tell. If Iggy wins the liberal leadership, the CPC will never get a majority.
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 2262
Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9
votes: 8
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

" Feeling Apathetic Towards Harper Gov't?"

No.
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 2262
Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9
votes: 8
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palomino_pony wrote:
Could anybody tell me what the differences are between Iggy and today's CPC? Not a lot as far as I can tell. If Iggy wins the liberal leadership, the CPC will never get a majority.


There is a difference - Iggy is a scary man - nothing more scary than a socialist with a hawkish mentality - he'll play whatever part he thinks the voters want to see but when it comes to the day to day governance - he would act like any arrogant Liberal...

I really do pray that the Conservatives form a majority - it's not their fault that they have yet to do so - it's just that we have allot of weenie voters.


Last edited by don muntean on Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:48 am; edited 1 time in total
Canuckstubby67





Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 29
Reputation: 76.2Reputation: 76.2
Location: Scarborough-Agincourt

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, go ahead and do that. But just don't complain if we see another 13 years of Liberal government due to vote splitting among the right. We saw it with poor old Brian Mulroney, with the grand ol' PC"s reduced to two seats and Chretien beating us for three elections (counting Martin, four). Let's not do it to Stephen Harper.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palomino_pony wrote:
Could anybody tell me what the differences are between Iggy and today's CPC? Not a lot as far as I can tell. If Iggy wins the liberal leadership, the CPC will never get a majority.
Yep, this Liberal leadership race is clearly the right vs. the left within the Liberal party. Iggy clearly represents the right leaning Liberals, and right now you probably could not spot a policy difference between Harper and Iggy.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canuckstubby67 wrote:
Yea, go ahead and do that. But just don't complain if we see another 13 years of Liberal government due to vote splitting among the right. We saw it with poor old Brian Mulroney, with the grand ol' PC"s reduced to two seats and Chretien beating us for three elections (counting Martin, four). Let's not do it to Stephen Harper.
Actually, that was Kim Campbell, most inept Canadian politician of all time. Mulroney could have won that election if he had stuck around. Charest could have won it in place of Kim Campbell. I mean really, I could have don better than 2 seats simply by hiding in a box for 3 months.
fkarcha





Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 31
Reputation: 33.3Reputation: 33.3Reputation: 33.3
votes: 3
Location: Winnipeg, MB

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A government can only enact so much change from the top down. The general population must be sympathetic to conservative policies in order for them to be enacted, and right now they could swing either way. Thus the government must tread carefully.

The left started long ago in creating and maintaining views sympathetic to their cause within the general population. They do this through grassroots activism, not top down command-and-control. How many rallies and protests has the CTF or NCC arranged? How many people have shown up? Where are the right wing environmental and social issue groups?

I sincerely believe Stephen Harper has, and is, doing the best he can with the tools and conditions available to him. A new leader will not fair any better. A new leader will not be able to be further to the right and still be able to form government. It is up to us to help change the conditions for the current and future party leaders.
DixieCanuck





Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 77
Reputation: 17.1Reputation: 17.1
votes: 1
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canuckstubby67 wrote:
Yea, go ahead and do that. But just don't complain if we see another 13 years of Liberal government due to vote splitting among the right. We saw it with poor old Brian Mulroney, with the grand ol' PC"s reduced to two seats and Chretien beating us for three elections (counting Martin, four). Let's not do it to Stephen Harper.


I'd rather lose on my principles. I do not subscribe to the theory of "if you can't beat them, join them".
No_more_sacred_cows





Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 57
Reputation: -5.2
votes: 1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Feeling Apathetic Towards Harper Gov't? Reply with quote

DixieCanuck wrote:
I've veered towards the Libertarians since I felt it's now the party that best represents what I believe in but I am open to consider any party that can do that better. I don't care how small the party is, it's what they stand for that matters to me.


The Libertarians would be the only party I would vote for, with a capital 'F'. Unfortunately, I always end up voting against some parties. In my case, the CP is just "the lesser of evils" who can win. Sad, but I have the feeling I am not alone.

The only solution would be a proportional representation system where each and every vote would actually count. But for obvious reasons the major parties don't want to hear about it.
Blue Meanie





Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 329
Reputation: 54.7
votes: 3
Location: B.C.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fkarcha wrote:
A government can only enact so much change from the top down. The general population must be sympathetic to conservative policies in order for them to be enacted, and right now they could swing either way. Thus the government must tread carefully.

The left started long ago in creating and maintaining views sympathetic to their cause within the general population. They do this through grassroots activism, not top down command-and-control. How many rallies and protests has the CTF or NCC arranged? How many people have shown up? Where are the right wing environmental and social issue groups?

I sincerely believe Stephen Harper has, and is, doing the best he can with the tools and conditions available to him. A new leader will not fair any better. A new leader will not be able to be further to the right and still be able to form government. It is up to us to help change the conditions for the current and future party leaders.


THIS IS THE REALITY PEOPLE!! It warrants a close reading (and re-reading) by all you nervous nellies and hand- wringers. Am I disappointed? Yes. Would I like to see at least some token sign that "true" conservatives still run the CPC? Hell, yes!
But NO CPC gov't (especially a minority) could ever enact some of the measures we might like to see, at this point in time. It would be political suicide. We live in a democracy, so no gov't can impose policies that are not popular with the general electorate without being tossed from office at the next election.
The left has worked for decades to get the population to accept their point of view on various issues, so that successive Liberal govt's can safely act on them without fear of losing at the polls.
What has the right done to advance their issues? Comparatively nothing. And yet an awful lot of you it seems, expect to be miraculously rewarded overnight, having done nothing. I just find it so ironic that the people who are willing to work the hardest to create the freedom and wealth in this country can allow themselves to be out-worked by those who prefer to make their living getting a free ride and restricting individual freedom.
Small c-conservatives of all stripes cannot expect the gov't to take up their issues until there is sufficient support for those issues amongst the general electorate. So if you expect the CPC to help you, get out there, get your hands dirty and build that support. Otherwise STFU while you watch this country continue its slide to the left and your views are relegated to the ashcan of history.
Disgruntled Reformer





Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 74
Reputation: 16.7Reputation: 16.7
votes: 1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Along the same lines, I just wrote in another thread on this board. My appologies if it isn't appropriate to paste it in here again (I'm new). But, here it is:

Hello everyone,

I've been "lurking" here for a long time. However, I was compelled to join due to this thread.

As a member of the Reform Party from way back, I am now extremely disenchanted with what we on the right have become, at least, our party. Notably, we have completely turned a blind eye on the ideals of the Reform Party.

Yes, I do know that this is a new party. However, I am quite uneasy.

Why? Simply put: our leader, the vast majority of the membership, MPs, and party brass have essentially become (IMO) what we use to bitterly complain about the Liberals.

Most notably:

- Abandonment of ideology to strategically move towards the centre for the sheer purpose of winning votes (what has already been mentioned in this thread).

- "The West Wants In!" The current Con party has been doing nothing but playing footsy to placate Ontario and Quebec. I was expecting much, much more attention to The West with our new government. I have found no significant difference in this regard.

- Social/moral issues. Sure, we don't have a majority, but there is no reason why we cannot bring forward the debate in the HofC, followed by a free vote, for items such as same-sex marriage. This debate must not die.

- Reckless spending, again for political reasons. The Canadian Taxpayers' Federation was right to decry the, what was is? $8.8 Billion dollars on non-essential and pork-barrel spending in the three months leading up to the election.

We use to get upset with the Libs for politicking in such a sleezy and irresponsible way. Harper turned out to be no different. Making this all the worse, it was done at a time when we knew the economy was in the toilet. If you combine the second GST cut (also done after dire economic forecasts), one could quite easily see that a projected deficit in the next fiscal year could have been avoided. Fiscally responsible? I don't think so!

- Attack ads against the Libs in the last campaign. Funny? Yes! However, given that we had decried the xenophobia and smear tactics in the 2006 Liberal campaign "not in our cities," etc, we have stooped to their level. We no longer have any moral high ground.

- The Reform party had scored many points with the public, and myself, for advocating that an MP represents their riding first and foremost, the party a distant second. Our MPs seem to have the tightest leash (and muzzle) I've ever seen MPs wear.


A few other grievances I have as well, which I hope to freely discuss with the brain-trust here on The Blogging Tories.

Please note, I'm not a "troll." Just a long-time member of the right who is disgruntled. I will always strive to be respectful to the personalities and opinions on this board. I ask that you keep an open mind when you read my occasional posts.

Have a nice weekend,

DR


http://www.bloggingtories.ca/f.....06-15.html
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 3

Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next  


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Feeling Apathetic Towards Harper Gov't?

phpBBCopyright 2001, 2005 phpBB