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cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
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Location: The World

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fkarcha wrote:
A government can only enact so much change from the top down. The general population must be sympathetic to conservative policies in order for them to be enacted, and right now they could swing either way. Thus the government must tread carefully.

The left started long ago in creating and maintaining views sympathetic to their cause within the general population. They do this through grassroots activism, not top down command-and-control. How many rallies and protests has the CTF or NCC arranged? How many people have shown up? Where are the right wing environmental and social issue groups?

I sincerely believe Stephen Harper has, and is, doing the best he can with the tools and conditions available to him. A new leader will not fair any better. A new leader will not be able to be further to the right and still be able to form government. It is up to us to help change the conditions for the current and future party leaders.


Very Well Said,
paisley_cross





Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 806
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Meanie wrote:

What has the right done to advance their issues? Comparatively nothing. And yet an awful lot of you it seems, expect to be miraculously rewarded overnight, having done nothing. I just find it so ironic that the people who are willing to work the hardest to create the freedom and wealth in this country can allow themselves to be out-worked by those who prefer to make their living getting a free ride and restricting individual freedom.
Small c-conservatives of all stripes cannot expect the gov't to take up their issues until there is sufficient support for those issues amongst the general electorate. So if you expect the CPC to help you, get out there, get your hands dirty and build that support. Otherwise STFU while you watch this country continue its slide to the left and your views are relegated to the ashcan of history.


Very well said. No point in just hand-wringing about abortion or gay marriage. These came about because of massive efforts by feminists and gay activists - and of course a very left leaning judiciary. The Morgentaler OC award was disgraceful but all those opposed were able to do was organize a useless on-line petition and a meager demonstration front of Rideau Hall.

And of course it was not raised at all during the election.

If the issue had been reversed the left would have put on a full-blown, well-financed, campaign to get the award rescinded.

Remember, 30 years ago gays had no rights; now they have SSM. And thanks to the apathy of the right that is not going to change. At least in the US they are getting marriage at the state level to be declared to be between a man and a woman.
JDot





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 727
Reputation: 63.5
votes: 5
Location: Ontario(GTA)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fkarcha says......

Quote:
A government can only enact so much change from the top down. The general population must be sympathetic to conservative policies in order for them to be enacted, and right now they could swing either way. Thus the government must tread carefully.

The left started long ago in creating and maintaining views sympathetic to their cause within the general population. They do this through grassroots activism, not top down command-and-control. How many rallies and protests has the CTF or NCC arranged? How many people have shown up? Where are the right wing environmental and social issue groups?

I sincerely believe Stephen Harper has, and is, doing the best he can with the tools and conditions available to him. A new leader will not fair any better. A new leader will not be able to be further to the right and still be able to form government. It is up to us to help change the conditions for the current and future party leaders.


Well said... 8)



Blue Meanie says.....

Quote:
THIS IS THE REALITY PEOPLE!! It warrants a close reading (and re-reading) by all you nervous nellies and hand- wringers. Am I disappointed? Yes. Would I like to see at least some token sign that "true" conservatives still run the CPC? Hell, yes!
But NO CPC gov't (especially a minority) could ever enact some of the measures we might like to see, at this point in time. It would be political suicide. We live in a democracy, so no gov't can impose policies that are not popular with the general electorate without being tossed from office at the next election.
The left has worked for decades to get the population to accept their point of view on various issues, so that successive Liberal govt's can safely act on them without fear of losing at the polls.
What has the right done to advance their issues? Comparatively nothing. And yet an awful lot of you it seems, expect to be miraculously rewarded overnight, having done nothing. I just find it so ironic that the people who are willing to work the hardest to create the freedom and wealth in this country can allow themselves to be out-worked by those who prefer to make their living getting a free ride and restricting individual freedom.
Small c-conservatives of all stripes cannot expect the gov't to take up their issues until there is sufficient support for those issues amongst the general electorate. So if you expect the CPC to help you, get out there, get your hands dirty and build that support. Otherwise STFU while you watch this country continue its slide to the left and your views are relegated to the ashcan of history..


Great post... 8)

don muntean says......


Quote:
" Feeling Apathetic Towards Harper Gov't?"

No.



That about sums up my feelings towards the Harper government...... 8)


Last edited by JDot on Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:03 pm; edited 7 times in total
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you look over my original posts, all but one of the things that are bothering me aren't due to being handed a minority government or due to the Lib/left establishment working against us.

I understand this.

What most disturbs me is the fact that the party seems to be moving away from the grassroots.

Deciding unilaterally and announcing that the Conservative government has no intention of enacting any of the policies it's members developed and voted on are internal matters which has nothing to do with a biased media or a minority government.

I've been around for a while and I remember the old CA/Reformers who complained that the party was moving away from it's roots. I disagreed with them and pointed out that as long as we were still a grassroots party, that the members would never allow us to become like the PCs were.

Now however, I'm starting to feel the same way they did.

IMO, if more and more long-term activists start feeling like this the party may be in trouble in a few years.
fkarcha





Joined: 16 Feb 2008
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votes: 3
Location: Winnipeg, MB

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That the government is pulling away from the party's grassroots is inevitable in this sort of situation. If the grassroots cannot change or influence public opinion, there will always be a rift with the leaders when they form government.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be willing to bet that the majority of the policies the grassroots approve would find support among the general public.
JDot





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 727
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votes: 5
Location: Ontario(GTA)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What most disturbs me is the fact that the party seems to be moving away from the grassroots


Cool Blue,

The party is not moving away from the grassroots, the CPC are a grassroots party...

Quote:
Deciding unilaterally and announcing that the Conservative government has no intention of enacting any of the policies it's members developed and voted on are internal matters which has nothing to do with a biased media or a minority government.


Cool Blue,

That is "Government PR" for the MSM. Dealing with the MSM, CPC supporters need to understand messaging is key....

Quote:
I've been around for a while and I remember the old CA/Reformers who complained that the party was moving away from it's roots. I disagreed with them and pointed out that as long as we were still a grassroots party, that the members would never allow us to become like the PCs were.


Cool Blue,

Just look at the economic portfolios in Cabinet, Tony Clement(industry),Stockwell Day(international trade)Jim Flaherty(Finace),John Baird(Transport) Diane Ablonczy(Minister of State [Small Business and Tourism], as a small Buisness owner in Mississauga, I am so glad that Diane Ablonczy is still in her position)etc.. The CPC has fiscal Conservatives in all monterey cabinet positions.



Quote:
IMO, if more and more long-term activists start feeling like this the party may be in trouble in a few years.


Cool Blue,

You have worked hard for the CPC, and helped the CPC to get to this point. But I am young and behind Harper 100%, this is about the long game IMHO.

Harper is setting up the CPC for the future...

PS:Good Post Cool Blue....... 8)


Last edited by JDot on Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:44 pm; edited 6 times in total
Joahob





Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 403
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votes: 2
Location: Spaceship Earth

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hopefully the throne speech will change things.


I'm not very optimistic about that. It is the throne speech after all...

Yes, you are right Cool Blue. I too am apathetic towards Harper, the CPC, and politics in general (one of the reasons my membership on this forum is not as active as it used to be, and not nearly as active on Craig's old forum). It's also the reason I didn't vote for the CPC the last election, but instead went with the independent grass roots conservative candidate in my riding, who nearly won, and will run again next election and probably win. So that's about the only inspiring thing in politics I can think of personally.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just feel apathy after the election. Nothing is really happening in the partisan way right now. The Liberals donít know who they are, the NDP has been quiet, and the Bloc are trying to help their fellow provincial buddies in the Quebec election.

Once the Liberal leadership gets going, and their conservative bashing begins, things should pick up again.

As for apathy towards the Conservative party and government, I promised myself never again. Never again shall we waste more than a decade of our countryís history, or future in the political wilderness. The Chretien years were bad enough. I am actually proud where Canada stands on the international stage. No longer does Canada play Switzerland. Canada never in its history has been on the fence. We fought in the Boar War, we lost over 60,000 men in World War I, and we lost over 40,000 in World War II. Canadian blood has been spilled in Europe and Korea, for the sake of their lives that were lost, Canada must not and will not be amoral anymore. Under Trudeau, under Chretien, Canada became amoral. Never again!
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
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votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was,
I was really getting "meh" and disenchanted with politics in general.

Stopped attending riding meetings, and barely campaigned or blogged during the 2008 election,

And NOW, I am fully charged and ready to rock.

If I can thank Dion and Layton for anything, its for giving me my passion back.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
I was,
I was really getting "meh" and disenchanted with politics in general.

Stopped attending riding meetings, and barely campaigned or blogged during the 2008 election,

And NOW, I am fully charged and ready to rock.

If I can thank Dion and Layton for anything, its for giving me my passion back.


I think most would now agree that this has reenergized conservatives from coast to coast to coast.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it certainly has but the angry back in the white man for me.
Joahob





Joined: 13 Jan 2007
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votes: 2
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha. Nice of you guys to bring up this thread again. Yes, I think it's fair to say we've all received a reenergizing jolt.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder, can we get some site stats? How do the one day post totals from the last few days compare to any other period? I have not been this angry or fired up since adscam; this is the re-emergence of the Conservative voter willing to crawl over broken glass.
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 7436
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votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
I wonder, can we get some site stats? How do the one day post totals from the last few days compare to any other period? I have not been this angry or fired up since adscam; this is the re-emergence of the Conservative voter willing to crawl over broken glass.


Naked over broken glass.
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Feeling Apathetic Towards Harper Gov't?

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