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cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Who is the BEST case Liberal Leader for the Conservatives? Reply with quote

The more I think about it, the more I have to think that its got to be Bob Rae.

The NDP in Ontario is still trying to recover, and the term "Rae Day's" is enough to force any union in Ontario into Jack's bed.

Thoughts?
Willg





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only worry with Bob Rae is that it seems the #1 whipping boy in Ontario is now Mike Harris, but hopefully Rae as Liberal leader will rekindle some painful memories for Ontarians. If it is any consolation, my uncle (an MD) who is a staunch Liberal said he would have alot of difficulty voting for a Bob Rae led Liberal Party of Canada.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willg wrote:
My only worry with Bob Rae is that it seems the #1 whipping boy in Ontario is now Mike Harris, but hopefully Rae as Liberal leader will rekindle some painful memories for Ontarians. If it is any consolation, my uncle (an MD) who is a staunch Liberal said he would have alot of difficulty voting for a Bob Rae led Liberal Party of Canada.


We need another Liberal leader that we can define to the Canadian people as the Liberals did with Manning, Day and Harper.

Reminding Canada of the poster child for champagne socialisms economic experiments in Ontario is like shooting fish in a barrel.
Christian Conservative





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rae as Liberal leader would send loads of right leaning Liberals into our column on election night, or just keep them at home again like Dion did.

Iggy as Liberal leader would send loads of left leaning Liberals into Jack's or Lizzy's loving arms... or again keep them at home.

Mckenna worries me a bit... my staunch Tory friend from NB said he'd vote for Frank in a heartbeat. He'd both hurt and help the Libs in Quebec... has a good reputation from his time as NB Premier, but is dead weight amongst the soft Quebecios "Nationalists" who hold him partially responsible for killing Meech. Also not as well known West, but really, how many more seats are there for us to pick up out there? ;-) A win for him might also cause some resentment amongst Libs in TO, give a couple more seats to Jack, maybe even one or two to us, if we play this new minority well and show Torontonians that we're looking out for them too.

Any of the other names out there would be another Dion senario for the Libs, a 2nd stringer coming up the middle. No way they'll allow that to happen again.
mr12387





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian Tobin. We have nothing to lose in Newfoundland as it is. And since he's a pretty centrist Liberal I don't think he'll attract too many Conservatives or too many Dippers.
marklar





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christian Conservative wrote:
Rae as Liberal leader would send loads of right leaning Liberals into our column on election night, or just keep them at home again like Dion did.


For exactly this reason it has to be Rae.

If the last election results tell us anything it was that a LOT of librals just stayed home because they couldn't pull the trigger and vote for Dion. We need them to migrate to us, not just stay home - getting Liberals to just stay home isn't a sustainable strategy, we want a broader base of support.

The perception of Rae in control of the party will be that the party has shifted even more drastically left, leaving yet more liberals without a home and thinking maybe it's time to reconsider where they really stand.
Blue Meanie





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christian Conservative wrote:

.....Mckenna worries me a bit... my staunch Tory friend from NB said he'd vote for Frank in a heartbeat.......

I just don't think its in the cards for Mckenna. One of the knocks on Dion was that he never had a large enough organizational base to grasp the party reins effectively. I think Mckenna would have the same issue. As well, the left- liberals are pretty well lined up behind Rae and would mount the usual character assasination against him before he could even begin to seriously organize. They're already pushing to move up the selection process to an earlier date, leaving little time for anyone but Rae and Iggy (who have organizations) to organize.
biggie





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confidence motion fails and Dion stays on for another race ;)

barring that... Rae. Ontario wont like him much and you wont have to worry about soft liberals flocking his way either.
Habsrwfan





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In theory, I agree with most of what Christian Conservative wrote.

However, the problem with the NDP stealing votes from an Iggy-led Liberals is that it requires Jack Layton (or whoever leads the NDP) to really hammer away at Iggy and the Liberals in the next federal election. I honestly don't think that we can count on Jack (or any NDP leader) to do that. Given that the NDP were rewarded modestly for running a strong, almost entirely, anti-Conservative campaign, I suspect that's what they'll do in the next federal election as well.

So, Rae would probably be the ideal foe. He would force Layton to defend his voters from slipping away to the Liberals, while he would allow Harper to bleed away conservative Liberals. The only concern with Rae is that he's the only man that I could see "uniting the left" in Canada right now. We may not be ready to face an united left party yet.
palomino_pony





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie wrote:
Confidence motion fails and Dion stays on for another race ;)

barring that... Rae. Ontario wont like him much and you wont have to worry about soft liberals flocking his way either.


Oh the howls from the members across the aisle if Harper made every vote a confidence vote. I wonder how the Liberals could prevent a premature election? I bet they pull out of the house or don't put all their members in. :lol:
beaver





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Habsrwfan wrote:
The only concern with Rae is that he's the only man that I could see "uniting the left" in Canada right now. We may not be ready to face an united left party yet.


That's not going happen unless the Conservatives in the next decade become the dominant party of Canada, which they're not... yet. Liberals have a long, proud tradition dating back to confederation, so they're not going to merge with a small party like the NDP unless the situation gets really desperate.
SFrank85





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is that a lot of people in the NDP hate Mr. Rae for ruining their brand provincially. He is now despised in the NDP ranks than in the Conservative ranks. I hope he does win. We can start the “Bob Rae, No Way!” chants and the Conservatives can remind voters of the shape he left Ontario in. And they can remind those who are worried about the doctors’ shortage in Ontario that it was Bob Rae who closed positions in medical school.

Bob Rae, No Way!
biggie





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palomino_pony wrote:
biggie wrote:
Confidence motion fails and Dion stays on for another race ;)

barring that... Rae. Ontario wont like him much and you wont have to worry about soft liberals flocking his way either.


Oh the howls from the members across the aisle if Harper made every vote a confidence vote. I wonder how the Liberals could prevent a premature election? I bet they pull out of the house or don't put all their members in. :lol:


I suspect you'll see a lot of this in the first while... and the libs will make sure 12-15 members are "sick", so they can vote against it while allowing it to pass.
Mac





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie wrote:
I suspect you'll see a lot of this in the first while... and the libs will make sure 12-15 members are "sick", so they can vote against it while allowing it to pass.

The one advantage of the stronger minority (from the Liberal perspective) is they don't have to march as many people out to avoid defeating the government. They can afford to leave most of their people in and let them vote against the government... although I'm sure they'll count noses very carefully to be sure to keep the government alive.

-Mac
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
biggie wrote:
I suspect you'll see a lot of this in the first while... and the libs will make sure 12-15 members are "sick", so they can vote against it while allowing it to pass.

The one advantage of the stronger minority (from the Liberal perspective) is they don't have to march as many people out to avoid defeating the government. They can afford to leave most of their people in and let them vote against the government... although I'm sure they'll count noses very carefully to be sure to keep the government alive.

-Mac


It would be funny if the Liberals thought they had their math correct and then a few Conservatives don't show up. There will be some extended trips to the bathroom for some Liberals :)
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Who is the BEST case Liberal Leader for the Conservatives?

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