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Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:11 pm    Post subject: Ontario Liberals Post Deficit Reply with quote

Depending on how you read the figures, Ontario is either posting a $500 million or $1 billion deficit.

Thoughts?

My first thought was Dalton claims he won't cut education or health but what's the difference between:

a) cutting health and education budgets

and

b) canceling previously announced health and budgeted education spending?
machiavelli





Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 352
Reputation: 66.5
votes: 5

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that the election is over, Ontario’s disingenuous Premier has once again broken an election promise. This time our hypocritical, far-left premier has ignored his “no deficit” guarantee.

Instead of finally performing in a rational manner pursuant to the teachers’ unions by notifying them that the selfish teachers’ already extraordinarily excessive wages will be frozen, our spineless premier, with his socialist agenda, decided to further injure the economy with an economy annihilating deficit. His socialist agenda will eradicate thousands of additional jobs.

Why are Comrades McGuinty and Duncan so incompetent that they can’t uncover an irrelevant, minuscule cut of $500 million out of $100 billion dollars of expenditures? Any one who isn’t a Marxist Moron comprehends that during a recession, provinces must do what any intelligent family and/or governments would expedite: cut spending, lay-off some of their numerous surplus employees, downsize, privatize, cut regulations, sell off excess assets, and cut taxes which will immediately increase individual spending thereby increase jobs.

Rather than increasing government unproductive and wasteful spending in a socialistic manner, a capitalistic rational government would return the money to tax payers to spend in a manner that would better benefit the economy and end the recession.

Only socialist morons such as McGuinty and Duncan would support a deficits unless there in a war!
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What pissed me off was the announcement that McGuinty had to postspone 100 million dollars in new program spending. Wow, what a hardship that is!

What about now not being able to cut taxes. I hate socialism.
langmann





Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 51
Reputation: 29Reputation: 29Reputation: 29

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

machiavelli wrote:
Why are Comrades McGuinty and Duncan so incompetent that they can’t uncover an irrelevant, minuscule cut of $500 million out of $100 billion dollars of expenditures? Any one who isn’t a Marxist Moron comprehends that during a recession, provinces must do what any intelligent family and/or governments would expedite: !


It's McGuinty: enough said.

Notice how the MSM is posting all kinds of opinion articles calling for deficit spending in a recession. A Keynesian solution to all our problems.

The thing about Keynesian economics is that it called for budget cuts during economic growth. Where were those cuts?

Running a small deficit is not necessarily a bad thing, as the economic research is generally still inconclusive on the issue. Monetary policy is generally preferred by economists. Unfortunately deficits/fiscal policy used during a recession usually takes effect after the recession is actually over. Hence a waste.

Stephen Harper was right, however, in the political nature of deficit spending. As he says, once you go down that road, it is hard to turn back. Greater and greater spending and deficits are rationalized. Moreover cutting the incentive spending during times of economic growth when it is uneccessary is very hard politically. We have seen the disasters caused by both NDP governments in Ontario and BC in this regard.
Louise M.





Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 243
Reputation: 61.6
votes: 1
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The health tax has been around since 2003. It brings about $2.5B annually in revenue which goes into the consolidated revenue fund. I wanted that revenue to be assigned strictly to health care, not pay for McGuinty's pet projects, like handing out grants to special interest groups, i.e. $1M to the Ontario cricket club. Now we learn the hiring of nurses will be stalled. I'm sure other aspects of health care will suffer. He's been using the health care tax to keep his budget in the black. We should not be accepting this type of shady accounting by the Ontario Liberals.

McGuinty had this to say.

Quote:
"I'm confident, though, given the temporary nature of this global economic downturn, we can take the interim steps to preserve our fiscal integrity."

http://canadianpress.google.co.....7kF1932usg

How "temporary" does he think this downturn is? What makes him qualified to make this pronouncement? I have a feeling he's setting us up for a tax increase. He might just be cocky enough to raise the health tax. Remember, he said it is not a tax, it is a premium.

I read a Star article that kisses McGuinty's ass to kingdom come. If you have the stomach for it, here is a sample and the link.

Quote:
In recent days, however, McGuinty has decided to pay Ontario citizens the considerable courtesy of levelling with them about tough times and tough choices to come.

What he's likely found – and which may explain his apparent serenity amid roiling seas – is that nothing is so liberating as telling people the truth.

What's been discernible in his approach is, for lack of a better expression, maturity. What he's demonstrated is a perspective frequently lacking in political discourse – the notion that, just maybe, the citizenry is out front of the political classes and is sick to death of the easy answers of any orthodoxy.

That was probably one of the lessons, in fact, of the recent federal election. Voters were unimpressed with the economic dogmas of either Prime Minister Stephen Harper or the environmental ideology of Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion.

Pragmatism, realism, flexibility – and a little humility – seem the order of the day. And the more experienced premiers were saying as much in Montreal.

---
Ontarians understand "that these are very challenging economic times. They understand that our revenues are going to go down. They understand that we've got to make some very difficult choices."

Government is always about choosing. And the premier seems at peace with his choices.[/quote]
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/521539

Barf bags all around.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike harris is your only hope. Too bad most Ontarians spent the last decade slagging the guy. I think with Dalton and whats his name in opposition, the slide into have not status is a real possibility.
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 539
Reputation: 93.9Reputation: 93.9
votes: 3
Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like my premier a bit better than Ontario's. To bad Campbell is on the wrong side of the carbon tax debate.

http://www.canada.com/vancouve.....b7f1c59eda

Quote:
Campbell said the two-per-cent personal income tax cut that took effect on July 1 would be made retroactive to the beginning of this year.
He said a three-per-cent personal tax cut that had been planned for January will also be made retroactive to the beginning of 2008, giving British Columbians a total tax cut of five per cent for this year.
The two tax cuts were initially envisioned to offset Campbell's carbon tax, a climate action measure that is set to rise incrementally in the coming years.

I have a hunch that the carbon tax was collecting more money than what originally forcast. There is no other way to explain how these tax cuts can be afforded.
hxman





Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 111
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cut the bilingualism programs for a start not to mention lower the taxes in Ontario so people might want to invest and start a business.......

Cut gov't and pork-barrel spending.....
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear that Europe is axing the Green laws/taxes and such in reaction to the economic crisis. Very confusing, as Green laws and taxes were touted as working, and would help us through times like these. Could it be that the sociology professor did not have his economics right?
marklar





Joined: 03 Oct 2007
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Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palomino_pony wrote:

I have a hunch that the carbon tax was collecting more money than what originally forcast. There is no other way to explain how these tax cuts can be afforded.


It's almost certain. It's a fixed amount per litre, so considering oil has dropped from highs near $150 to under $70, consumption on a volume basis is definitely up and will go up in the near future.
Willg





Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 361
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Location: 905

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
I hear that Europe is axing the Green laws/taxes and such in reaction to the economic crisis. Very confusing, as Green laws and taxes were touted as working, and would help us through times like these. Could it be that the sociology professor did not have his economics right?


I've also heard something similar.
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 539
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votes: 3
Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marklar wrote:
palomino_pony wrote:

I have a hunch that the carbon tax was collecting more money than what originally forcast. There is no other way to explain how these tax cuts can be afforded.


It's almost certain. It's a fixed amount per litre, so considering oil has dropped from highs near $150 to under $70, consumption on a volume basis is definitely up and will go up in the near future.

Yes. Added to that is consumption increasing because of population growth. There was a report saying that the fuel consumption in BC would increase 2% a year over the next 3 years because of population growth alone, despite a carbon tax.

I think Campbell would love to turf the carbon tax after seeing what it did to the federal Liberal support in BC, but he has to much political capital invested in it. Plus he is a stubborn egomaniac. Retro-active tax cuts are the next best thing I guess. Plus it makes for good TV.
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
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Location: The World

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess dumping all the money from the Fed's into training rather then tax cuts or scrolling it away was an even worse idea then we thought.
Northern Ontario Tory





Joined: 31 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it ironic that the McGuinty Liberals are defending their decision to run a deficit by pointing out that many economists support the idea in an economic downturn. What they neglect to mention is that many of the same economists also recommend paying down the debt when times are good, something which the Liberals are loathe to do.

Also, the double standard of many local Liberals is annoying, but not surprising ...... the Federal Conservatives are bashed for "spending" the surplus, while the provincial Liberals are praised for doing the same!
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are all the economics being critical of McGuinty not "planning" for the down turn or his careless management of the economy. The feds haven't even run a deficit and we are hearing endless criticism of their handling of the economy.
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