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SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Thanks for not answering any of my questions, Craig. Because if Hitler was an evil baby, don't you think abortion would have been the best option?


Hitler was not born evil. His politics have hate did not come up until post World War One.
mr12387





Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 261
Reputation: 60.6
votes: 2
Location: Laval, Quebec

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Where is the proof that he was evil?


I’d ask my great grandparents the answer, but they never made it out of Auschwitz. Not trying to get confrontational by any means, but the question was a tad bit on the not so intelligent side.

Furthermore, I don't think Hitler was born evil at all. He went through some rough times in his younger days, and I believe, became who we all know him as today through lots of bottled up anger and a need to boost his ego. But even if he was ‘born evil’ as far as I know the "evil fetus" test still isn’t in existence, so while his never being born would have probably done the world a great favour, I don’t see the relevance of relating the topic of evil dictators with abortion.

As for the original topic of this thread, in this day and age I think it would be much easier to define ‘what isn’t conservative’ as opposed to what is. Perhaps, as well, conservatism isn’t defined so much as an adherence to specific principles as much as it is the adherence of a certain number of virtues from a larger list. For example, although my pro-gay marriage stance would not define me as conservative the fact that I am against abortion might very well.

Furthermore you could have Canadians with diametrically different views both call themselves Conservative. Take Person A, a somewhat socially liberal lawyer from the Rosedale district of Toronto whose three biggest priorities for government are cutting taxes for businesses, cutting government intervention in citizens every day lives and shrinking the size of government. Then take person B, who lives in a small town in New Brunswick, and doesn't care much for economic theory. He’s a devout Christian, believes strongly in his Christian values and the terms “gay marriage,” “abortion” and “reasonable accommodation” make him cringe. Both call themselves Conservatives but for very different reasons and both might very well be rightfully able to do so.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
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votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"But Evil babies need the most attention!"
Craig
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Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Thanks for not answering any of my questions, Craig. Because if Hitler was an evil baby, don't you think abortion would have been the best option?


Hitler wasn't an evil baby. Now that I've answered your question you have nowhere to run...
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am fairly confident that Republicans are more patriotic than Democrats.


A jingoist does not a patriot make.
Craig
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Quote:
I am fairly confident that Republicans are more patriotic than Democrats.


A jingoist does not a patriot make.


Actually, by definition it does. But I think my statement is accurate regardless of foreign policy positions.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
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votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
mrsocko wrote:
Quote:
I am fairly confident that Republicans are more patriotic than Democrats.


A jingoist does not a patriot make.


Actually, by definition it does. But I think my statement is accurate regardless of foreign policy positions.


Indeed. The opposite to Mr.Socko's argument is the observation that many Democrats are willing define anything as patriotism, except actual patriotism. But that is neither here nor there - I think nationalism functions independantly of leftness or rightness. Russia under Stalin, and China under Mao, were both intensely nationalistic, as were Britain under Thatcher, and the US under Reagan. Of course, nationalism can take on a slightly different meaning in monocultural, monoracial countries...
Craig
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
Indeed. The opposite to Mr.Socko's argument is the observation that many Democrats are willing define anything as patriotism, except actual patriotism. But that is neither here nor there - I think nationalism functions independantly of leftness or rightness. Russia under Stalin, and China under Mao, were both intensely nationalistic, as were Britain under Thatcher, and the US under Reagan. Of course, nationalism can take on a slightly different meaning in monocultural, monoracial countries...


There is a subtle difference between patriotism and nationalism though. The former tends to be fuelled by pride while the latter is often fuelled by racism or bigotry. Personally, I don't think nationalism fuelled by bigotry is a bad thing - but that is another topic all together. Nationalism is more of a movement associated with physical borders.
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Hitler wasn't an evil baby. Now that I've answered your question you have nowhere to run...


Not running anywhere (as much as you would like me to). Good thing you waited for SFrank85 to give you the answer. Now would you mind answering the rest of them?
Craig
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Craig wrote:
Hitler wasn't an evil baby. Now that I've answered your question you have nowhere to run...


Not running anywhere (as much as you would like me to). Good thing you waited for SFrank85 to give you the answer. Now would you mind answering the rest of them?


I know the rules of the forum dictate politeness but I've had enough of you. You are an idiot. A complete idiot. I answered your question and instead of conceeding defeat you say I didn't answer fast enough. Pathetic. You are a worthless member of these forums. In fact, you are worse than worthless because you spread dangerous health information. You read something on a website and take it as truth. You are rude, inconsiderate, and you argue for the sake of arguing. Somehow I don't think a week ban will have an effect on you but you more than deserve it...
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:
Sheila wrote:
Thanks for not answering any of my questions, Craig. Because if Hitler was an evil baby, don't you think abortion would have been the best option?


Hitler was not born evil. His politics have hate did not come up until post World War One.


Go learn some real history. What did WWI have to do with spawning his anti-semitic mindset?
Craig
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don muntean wrote:
SFrank85 wrote:
Sheila wrote:
Thanks for not answering any of my questions, Craig. Because if Hitler was an evil baby, don't you think abortion would have been the best option?


Hitler was not born evil. His politics have hate did not come up until post World War One.


Go learn some real history. What did WWI have to do with spawning his anti-semitic mindset?


Whoa, no need to be rude to Frank. Hitler DID blame the jews for having lost WWI. It DID play a large role in his hatred of jews.
mrsocko





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Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought a jingoist was a kind of warmongerer.

Myabe i don't know what a warmongerer is either :oops:
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
don muntean wrote:
SFrank85 wrote:
Sheila wrote:
Thanks for not answering any of my questions, Craig. Because if Hitler was an evil baby, don't you think abortion would have been the best option?


Hitler was not born evil. His politics have hate did not come up until post World War One.


Go learn some real history. What did WWI have to do with spawning his anti-semitic mindset?


Whoa, no need to be rude to Frank. Hitler DID blame the jews for having lost WWI. It DID play a large role in his hatred of jews.


Oops - I wasn't meaning to sound rude - I should have used a different lead in for my comment. Of course WWI and the loss of the war by the Germans and the subsequent infamous treaty of Versailles were used as a pretext by Hitler - to equate the despised Jews with this crippling blow. It was a continuation of a centuries long prevalent tendency in Europe - to 'blame the jews' - the fact is Hitler's hatred and vilification of Jews was both a means to an end and an end in itself.

Certainly this is a subject that has many considerations...

Here is a good wiki summery:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_....._kill_them



:)


Last edited by don muntean on Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
Craig wrote:
mrsocko wrote:
Quote:
I am fairly confident that Republicans are more patriotic than Democrats.


A jingoist does not a patriot make.


Actually, by definition it does. But I think my statement is accurate regardless of foreign policy positions.


Indeed. The opposite to Mr.Socko's argument is the observation that many Democrats are willing define anything as patriotism, except actual patriotism. But that is neither here nor there - I think nationalism functions independantly of leftness or rightness. Russia under Stalin, and China under Mao, were both intensely nationalistic, as were Britain under Thatcher, and the US under Reagan. Of course, nationalism can take on a slightly different meaning in monocultural, monoracial countries...


Good point! "nationalism can take on a slightly different meaning in monocultural, monoracial countries"
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