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Bleatmop





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
Quote:
though I believe resilience is stronger than the environmental factors.


Not really, half of the Canadians who landed on D-Day had PTSD for the rest of their life while 100% of Canadian POW's with the Japanese did.
People might have different levels of resilience, some people crack over nothing, but everyone has a breaking point where they will give up.


Well, by that definition, half of the people that landed on D-Day were resilient enough to overcome those stresses. That's actually kinda the point about resilience, some people have more than others, everyone would have the same point where they "crack".
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Criminals Share A Common Genetic Flaw


If we can identify the gene we could throw them in jail before they commit the crime!

Or forbid them to breed.

That would go over with the bleeding hearts.
truth4freedom





Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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Location: Bible Belt USA!

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Quote:
Criminals Share A Common Genetic Flaw


If we can identify the gene we could throw them in jail before they commit the crime!

Or forbid them to breed.

That would go over with the bleeding hearts.


Hence why I brought up eugenics. We already made the mistake of killing or preventing from breeding those deemed inferior. If we did identify a gene, that someone thought at the time caused violence, then found out later we were wrong and had been aborting or genetically modifying babies for the sole purpose of altering that gene we would repeat a historical mistake. Humans have free will and although Darwinian evolutionists would like to purport that we are just advanced animals following genetic whims the truth if far grander and more compassionate. I cringe to think what attrocities may be commited in my life in the name of 'science' or genetic advancement during my life.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
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votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The science is way, way too new to be basing policy decisions off of - and it's just as silly to reject scientific data because of the people doing that. One of the bigger issues with genetics is multifactorial genes and recessive genes - the same factors that make eugenics unworkable.

For example, many West African and South American populations have a heavy genetic risk for sickle-cell anemia. Expression of Sicklecell anemia comes from having two of a specific, recessive gene that alters the shape of red blood cells. Almost everyone in both populations has at least one gene, because that changes the shape of a red blood cell just enough to substantially boost resistance to strains of malaria, which is a huge fitness advantage. So the trade off for this population is a much greater ability to survive malaria, with an increased risk for a chronic genetic condition.

These kind of wierd trade-offs are why certain genes or combinations, that in isolation appear very negative, have continued to persist in all species. Something to think of when researchers discover fat genes, criminal genes, cancer genes ... etc.
Habsrwfan





Joined: 04 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
Bleatmop wrote:
I agree that it is very interesting, though I would say that we do have a degree of control over our environment. Not when we are children mind you, but as adults. But then you could get into the early vs later experience debate and the resiliency debate. Needless to say I enjoyed my psychology classes in uni :) As much as we know about the human mind, we still have a vast ocean of knowledge left to explore.

Maybe this is getting a bit deep, but do we really have control over our environment? How do we control it, by making choices? But how are those choices to influence our environment made - they are made by our genes and our environment. I guess sort of like a catch 22, we can't make our own choices unless we can change our environment/genes, but we can't change our environment/genes unless we can make our own choices.
I suppose this is somewhat related to determinism
And while many scientists don't believe in determinism, many (most notably Einstein) do. Hence his famous line "God does not play dice". I tend to agree with Einstein. And even if it's not true, that doesn't mean that we humans have any control over what happens to us.


It's not an issue of having control over what happens to us. It's an issue of having control over how we respond to what happens to us.

Determinism is a terrible and wrong-headed philosophy as it runs completely contrary to the concept of personal responsibility - a concept that plays a key element in ensuring a reasonably lawful, productive, and accountable society. The fact is that there are times in life when a person will refrain from committing a crime, or becoming violent, or in some other fashion taking harmful actions, because s/he has developed a sense of personal responsibility and hence values good self-discipline.

Stephen Harper is actually a good example here. In the past, he was famous for having a bit of a temper at times. In the most recent debates, he weathered 4-on-1 attacks with out ever losing his cool. His genes may predispose him to having a temper, but his wise choice to improve upon that weakness enabled him to overcome that somewhat.
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:46 pm    Post subject: XYY Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
Stop being so harsh on people with substance abuse disorder....
But seriousely there is a genetic mutation that certain men have which makes them violent.
XXY or someshit.


That was a result of a bad study. XYY (two male/one female) chromosome were thought to commit more crimes because they were "more masculine". I think this became popular culture because of one of the "Alien" movies.
In reality, they don't.
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
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Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: My genes made me do it Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
I guess smoking isn't a choice...

Quote:
Researchers Find Genetic Connection to Cigarette Smoking

Certain Gene Found to Influence Why People Start Smoking and Why Some Get Addicted and Others Don't


I guess committing a crime isn't a choice...

Quote:
Criminals Share A Common Genetic Flaw


http://www.popularmechanics.co.....82176.html

So smoking and committing crimes is like skin color right - you are born with it - right??? That's what I hear anyway - my genes made me do it.


Well I guess that cuts you and any offspring out of your own selective genetics idea then? How disappointing. :wink:
Hasdrubal





Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the heck is this article talking about? I come from two families filled with smokers, potheads, & I evertime I smell the dirty stuff I choke on it. So I guess me & my brother are both recessive when it comes to smoking, & dare I say I have only one sibling. Come on, gent bent.
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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votes: 5

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole genetic stuff is getting out of hand. These scientists are now just finding patterns in a small amount of people and then blameing the pattern on genes.
Intrepid





Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Posts: 1


PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This reminds me of Flip Wilson and his character Geraldine. Her flip reply always was "THe devil made me do it." Just another way of avoiding personal responsibitly.
I heard them say of those going to Thailand and sexually abusing children - as young as 4 years old - that these people were Hard Wired - meaning that their genetic make up made them do it. RUBBISH... they are pure EVIL
Habsrwfan





Joined: 04 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intrepid wrote:
This reminds me of Flip Wilson and his character Geraldine. Her flip reply always was "THe devil made me do it." Just another way of avoiding personal responsibitly.
I heard them say of those going to Thailand and sexually abusing children - as young as 4 years old - that these people were Hard Wired - meaning that their genetic make up made them do it. RUBBISH... they are pure EVIL


The funny thing is... if it's actually true that some people are "Hard Wired" to be pedophiles, then in most cases, you might as well just lock these people up and throw away the key. That would be the safest course of action (for kids) if somebody actually thinks that some people are hard wired to be pedophiles.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
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votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether it has genetic causative factors or not (and I think it seems likely), it by no means abdicates any responsiblity from the animals who act on their urges. That said, there is no cure for it, and paedophiles have a very high recidivism rate. Selective incapacitation and capital punishment may very well be the best options for public safety.
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