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paisley_cross





Joined: 09 Jul 2008
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Key elements of Christian doctrine are offensive to Muslims Reply with quote

I suppose baptizing babies is "offensive" to Baptists. Dr Williams has a habit of making comments that inflame rather than encourage productive debate.

Perhaps it's time for Queen Elizabeth to ask, "Who will rid me of this loathsome priest?" :evil:

Quote:
Key elements of Christian doctrine are offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of Canterbury has said in a letter to Islamic scholars.

Dr Rowan Williams also spoke critically of the violent past of both religions and Christianity's abandonment of its peaceful origins.

His comments came in a published letter to Islamic leaders, intended to promote closer dialogue and understanding between the two faiths.

However they come just months after Dr Williams was forced to clarify comments in which he said some parts of Islamic law will "unavoidably" be adopted in Britain.

The comments are also made as the once-a-decade Lambeth Conference begins in Canterbury. Up to a quarter of bishops are boycotting the event, as the Anglican Church faces continuing division over the issues of women bishops and homosexual clergy.

The wide-ranging letter, which covers difficult issues including religious freedom and religiously-inspired violence is in response to a document written last year by Muslim scholars from 43 countries.

Discussing differences between the religions, Dr Williams acknowledges that Christian belief in the Trinity is "difficult, sometimes offensive, to Muslims".

The Trinity is the Christian doctrine stating God exists as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and conflicts with Islamic teaching that there is one all-powerful God....

(full story)

OFFENSIVE

Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
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votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well as long as the baptism doesn't lead to dancing...... :)
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another sad chapter in the history of the Church of England!
potan





Joined: 30 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reminds me of that Anglican priest who said Jesus isn't God. With the way things are going, the Anglican church won't exist 20 years from now, members of most of these traditional churches will wither die off or stray away from their faith.

The most recent survey from the Pew Forum found that almost every traditional church(Anglicans, Episcopilians, Presbytarians, Methodists etc) are shrinking in numbers, the only exception being evangelical churches.
paisley_cross





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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

potan wrote:
Reminds me of that Anglican priest who said Jesus isn't God. With the way things are going, the Anglican church won't exist 20 years from now, members of most of these traditional churches will wither die off or stray away from their faith.

The most recent survey from the Pew Forum found that almost every traditional church(Anglicans, Episcopilians, Presbytarians, Methodists etc) are shrinking in numbers, the only exception being evangelical churches.


20 years? How about six months?

The Prod mods are dead. They try to be social organizations, not religious institutions. There will be a shake-out. Baptists, Pentecostals and Mormons will survive but many Protestant groups won't.

Williams should be far more concerned about his own organization and not whether Muslims are "offended" by the Trinity. Anglicanism needed a Churchill but ended up with a Keystone cop.
urbanmonk





Joined: 12 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

potan wrote:
Episcopilians, Presbytarians, Methodists etc) are shrinking in numbers, the only exception being evangelical churches.

Would the denominations you mentioned be considered evangelical churches in their early years? Based on the definition of 'evangelical' I would say they were but over the years they have moved away from their roots. This may explain why these churches are shrinking while the modern 'evangelical' churches are not. Does this sound reasonable?
potan





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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

urbanmonk wrote:
potan wrote:
Episcopilians, Presbytarians, Methodists etc) are shrinking in numbers, the only exception being evangelical churches.

Would the denominations you mentioned be considered evangelical churches in their early years? Based on the definition of 'evangelical' I would say they were but over the years they have moved away from their roots. This may explain why these churches are shrinking while the modern 'evangelical' churches are not. Does this sound reasonable?


Yes, you are right. All denominations other than the Catholic church were evangelical, in that they were like churches described in the New Testament. What we would call modern evangelicalism is basically any kind of church that rejects the ritualistic aspects of Christianity and focuses on pure Christianity which holds the Bible as the authority and the need for personal conversion, and believes in the death and resurrection of Jesus (which sounds like most churches).
This is just my personal opinion, but, I think people are turned off by the religion and rituals, which might be why so called evangelical churches are growing. But still, the vast majority of "Christians" still are affiliated with traditional churches so it will take a few years before a significant change will occur.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This is just my personal opinion, but, I think people are turned off by the religion and rituals, which might be why so called evangelical churches are growing.


Any Church that you don't experience God in is gonna die. If you experience God it changes your life. Religion and rituals are part of it. Jesus set up certain rituals like the eucharist and baptism. Some are suspicious of churches without some form of ritual.

Churches grow when there is Power Evangelism. Miracles, manifestations, prophecy are all part of the growing Evangelical, 3rd Wave and Pentecostal experience.

That is why these churches grow.
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When my daughter came home from the Evangelical Free Church Kid's Klub with the passage from the bible which states that if you are a Christian, you are better than everyone else. That's when I sat her down and told her the truth. She only went one more time before she told me she didn't want to go anymore. I feel bad, but I wasn't going to lie to her.
truth4freedom





Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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Location: Bible Belt USA!

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
When my daughter came home from the Evangelical Free Church Kid's Klub with the passage from the bible which states that if you are a Christian, you are better than everyone else.



Chapter and verse?
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
When my daughter came home from the Evangelical Free Church Kid's Klub with the passage from the bible which states that if you are a Christian, you are better than everyone else. That's when I sat her down and told her the truth. She only went one more time before she told me she didn't want to go anymore. I feel bad, but I wasn't going to lie to her.


And here I thought Jesus taught us to be humble like he was. He was God and humbled himself to die so that we could be free from sin and all go to heaven.

I would like to read that verse where it says Christians are better than everyone else too. Maybe I can learn a thing or two.
urbanmonk





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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:

I would like to read that verse where it says Christians are better than everyone else too.

Ditto.....
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

potan wrote:
Reminds me of that Anglican priest who said Jesus isn't God.


...well on that point he was correct.
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Key elements of Christian doctrine are offensive to Musl Reply with quote

paisley_cross wrote:
I suppose baptizing babies is "offensive" to Baptists. Dr Williams has a habit of making comments that inflame rather than encourage productive debate.

Perhaps it's time for Queen Elizabeth to ask, "Who will rid me of this loathsome priest?" :evil:

Quote:
Key elements of Christian doctrine are offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of Canterbury has said in a letter to Islamic scholars.

Dr Rowan Williams also spoke critically of the violent past of both religions and Christianity's abandonment of its peaceful origins.

His comments came in a published letter to Islamic leaders, intended to promote closer dialogue and understanding between the two faiths.

However they come just months after Dr Williams was forced to clarify comments in which he said some parts of Islamic law will "unavoidably" be adopted in Britain.

The comments are also made as the once-a-decade Lambeth Conference begins in Canterbury. Up to a quarter of bishops are boycotting the event, as the Anglican Church faces continuing division over the issues of women bishops and homosexual clergy.

The wide-ranging letter, which covers difficult issues including religious freedom and religiously-inspired violence is in response to a document written last year by Muslim scholars from 43 countries.

Discussing differences between the religions, Dr Williams acknowledges that Christian belief in the Trinity is "difficult, sometimes offensive, to Muslims".

The Trinity is the Christian doctrine stating God exists as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and conflicts with Islamic teaching that there is one all-powerful God....

(full story)

OFFENSIVE



We could turn that around and find many things in Islam that are OFFENSIVE to peoples of other faiths.

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 298:

Narrated 'Aisha:

The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses).


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fu.....6.sbt.html

Such is only one example!

All faiths have elements and histories that can be viewed negatively by 'outsiders' and we have to see that tolerance begins with understanding that.

People of faith in all faiths have to see that to secular humanists - to atheists - all faiths appear evermore shocking and meddlesome to real 'human growth'. We have to know that a continued clash of religious ideologies is only going to make it harder for people of faith - in all faiths.
urbanmonk





Joined: 12 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

urbanmonk wrote:
mrsocko wrote:

I would like to read that verse where it says Christians are better than everyone else too.

Ditto.....


Hi Sheila, ummmm, I was wondering if you were having any luck finding that verse...... :~)
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